# Game of Thrones 5.09 "The Dance of Dragons" 6/7/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 7, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922 "2015-06-07T21:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/341 "2015-06-11T16:23:29Z")
Pretty sure. I recall it being a fairly small patch to start (maybe 1 x 2 inches), and now it’s part of the length of his forearm. I don’t have screencaps, though. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/342 "2015-06-11T16:53:27Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I don’t have screencaps, though. Screencaps or it didn’t happen. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/343 "2015-06-11T17:01:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > However, the people of Westeros don’t seem to be as deeply religious as people from the middle ages. And many amongst the educated seem to be able to express their doubts about the gods without causing shock. People seem, IMHO, to be more superstitious than very religious on the overall. Pretty common error in Medieval Fantasy novels. Readers today just cant grok the kind of faith that peoples had in that period, so it is glossed over. Even when the Deities actually occasionally walk the Earth, faith is under represented. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/344 "2015-06-11T19:11:41Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > …Still a lot of loose ends to wrap up next week. I’m guessing Cersei will get her comeuppance, maybe the attack on Winterfell will be resolved, maybe Arya gets to personally kill whatshisname, and somebody important will die…maybe Jon Snow, since he’s pretty much the only semi-heroic figure left on the continent… Don’t forget Brienne or Ser Davos. They’re pretty honorable and heroic characters (although not always in the best of causes). > [@G0sp3l](#): > > I don’t have any evidence other than a possible throwaway line “you don’t build a 700 hundred foot high wall…” It’s tall, but it’s not _that_ tall. They’d need supplemental oxygen. > [@Quimby](#): > > …My theory for how this all ends: Dany is Queen, Jon Snow is King, the Dragons destroy both the Wall and the White Walkers. Either Tyrion or Sam is the Hand and the other who isn’t the hand dies a heroic death. Works for me! > [@Bone](#): > > With Dany being immune to fire, it would have been pretty cool if they could have incorporated that somehow. Like, a guy is about to attack her while she’s going to pet Drogon, then he shoots fire right through her and roasts the guy behind her. Dany is left posing like a badass. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Cept nude, which she won’t do. Maybe she could get a dress made of the same material as Bruce Banner’s pants? > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Ser Alliser’s statement to Jon Snow is definitely ominous, but I’d say the likelihood is that someone kills Jon because they think it will be for the greater good, so that a better, stronger leader can step in. Either Ser Alliser or maybe the boy Olly. My money’s on Olly. He’s not happy about the wildlings coming south and will be well-positioned to kill Jon, should it come to that. > [@BlackKnight](#): > > …we have football players in real life who claim that God helped them make a touchdown… As Jeff Stilson said, “You never hear football players say, ‘We were winning the game, and then Jesus made me fumble!’” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/345 "2015-06-11T19:20:44Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Are the Dorne scenes filmed in Morocco?.. No, in Seville, Spain: [http://scribblerinseville.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-the-water-gardens-of-dorne-aka-the-alcazar-of-seville/](http://scribblerinseville.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-the-water-gardens-of-dorne-aka-the-alcazar-of-seville/) > [@CoolHandCox](#): > > I don’t know why he came to the wall from the North side. However, we did see Ser Alliser open the gate for Jon Snow - he didn’t have to and would probably stayed (acting) Lord Commander had he not. To me that’s a huge respect for the chain-of-command. Especially since Ser Alliser thinks Jon Snow is going to get everyone killed. Agreed. Of course there had to be a looooong, dramatic pause as we wondered if Ser Alliser would do his duty. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I feel like Jacquen knew exactly what happened with Arya. Maybe he even knew Meren would be arriving on the docks at the time on that day and specifically sent Arya on that job to see him. Hadn’t thought of that, but you may be right. I also don’t think he bought her excuse about not being able to poison the Gambler, but is willing to let that lie slide… for now. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > …I was expecting Selyse to throw herself on the pyre. That didn’t happen so I’m guessing she either kills herself, or get’s killed trying to murder Melisandre. Which would conveniently free Stannis to remarry… I thought that, too. Would burning her be enough to propitiate the Lord of Light? If so, she could have volunteered to be burned herself. But I suppose marrying a (potential future) king is not the same as having royal blood from birth. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > And isn’t it still a capital crime under the UCMJ for sentries to fall asleep on duty or desert there post (at least in wartime)? Yes: [http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl113.htm](http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl113.htm) > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > If Stannis’ ambitions were ONLY about being king, it would have been a LOT smarter for him to go straight to King’s Landing or Winterfell. A LOT smarter. Not buying it, in short. Uh… he already tried to go directly to KL. Didn’t quite work out. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/346 "2015-06-11T19:28:15Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > It’s tall, but it’s not _that_ tall. They’d need supplemental oxygen. > [@](#): > > Yup, 700ft. Why would you need supplemental oxygen for that? > As Jeff Stilson said, “You never hear football players say, ‘We were winning the game, and then Jesus made me fumble!’” [http://gawker.com/5700997/football-player-blames-god-on-twitter-for-dropped-touchdown-pass](http://gawker.com/5700997/football-player-blames-god-on-twitter-for-dropped-touchdown-pass) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/347 "2015-06-11T19:45:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > No, in Seville, Spain: [http://scribblerinseville.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-the-water-gardens-of-dorne-aka-the-alcazar-of-seville/](http://scribblerinseville.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-the-water-gardens-of-dorne-aka-the-alcazar-of-seville/) > Agreed. Of course there had to be a looooong, dramatic pause as we wondered if Ser Alliser would do his duty. > Hadn’t thought of that, but you may be right. I also don’t think he bought her excuse about not being able to poison the Gambler, but is willing to let that lie slide… for now. > I thought that, too. Would burning her be enough to propitiate the Lord of Light? If so, she could have volunteered to be burned herself. But I suppose marrying a (potential future) king is not the same as having royal blood from birth. > Yes: [http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl113.htm](http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl113.htm) > Uh… he already tried to go directly to KL. Didn’t quite work out. Yes, but going to the Wall is still not a winning move, unless you wish to maintain all along that his plan had been to enlist the Wildlings to his cause. And if he wants to sit on the Iron Throne, he is going to have to take King’s Landing one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/348 "2015-06-11T20:07:06Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Yup, 700ft. Why would you need supplemental oxygen for that? Take another look. **G0sp3l** wrote “…a 700 hundred foot high wall…” Seven hundred _hundred_. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/349 "2015-06-11T20:12:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Take another look. **G0sp3l** wrote “…a 700 hundred foot high wall…” Seven hundred _hundred_. :smack::smack::smack: hoist on my own petard, gotta learn to proofread. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/350 "2015-06-11T20:24:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Regarding the greyscale… It comes out of Valeria, the ancient home of dragons and the Targaryans. As a longshot, maybe greyscale is only fatal to normal people, and in someone like Daeneris it has a completely different effect? Maybe it will make her more powerful or something. > > That is just wild speculation. I don’t think Ser Jorah infected her. I suspect you probably have to touch the actual infected area to get it, Greyscale doesn’t come out of Valyria, they toss people with greyscale in there as some sort of leper colony because the place is already an unlivable shit hole anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/351 "2015-06-11T22:46:28Z")
Oh, that’s right. I got confused because of the episode with the Stone Men. I forgot that they were imported there. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/352 "2015-06-12T00:33:30Z")
I thought from the way the Stone Men fought that they had to touch the uninfected person with the part of their body that had grayscale for it to transfer. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/353 "2015-06-12T03:09:20Z")
That’s unclear. It might just be that they’re particularly contagious by the time their entire epidermis is covered. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/354 "2015-06-12T19:51:56Z")
I’ve read with great interest the discussion of Stannis’s decision to sacrifice his own daughter. When I saw it on the show I was appalled, of course, and thought he had crossed a line into true monstrousness. I am now persuaded by this thread that it was a terrible but proper decision for him to make. Stannis genuinely believes that he is the lawful king, and that only he can save the kingdom from the civilization-ending disaster marching down from the frozen north. His army is on the brink of ruin after Ramsay Bolton’s raid. He can’t go forward, and he can’t go back. The Red Priestess tells him she can save the day, but only if he sacrifices Shireen. The priestess has shown, from the smoke-baby attack, surviving a poisoning and (less obviously) the Gendry/leech incident, that she has magical powers. Is she always right? No. Does her magic always work? No. But it’s Stannis’s last chance. The show makes it very clear that he and his army are doomed otherwise. Stannis might have sent his wife and child back with Ser Davos to the (relative, and temporary) safety of Castle Black, but he would then have given up the opportunity to take Melisandre’s advice, sacrifice his daughter, and perhaps save his army, live to fight another day and win his crown. A terrible choice, a heartbreaking, awful thing to do, but the kind of desperate gamble that a great leader must sometimes take. It sure doesn’t make me like Stannis any better, though. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/355 "2015-06-12T20:11:20Z")
I don’t understand why retreating to CB is impossible if Davos can make it. Human beings don’t starve to death instantly, is it more than two weeks march back? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/356 "2015-06-12T20:17:36Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I don’t understand why retreating to CB is impossible if Davos can make it. Human beings don’t starve to death instantly, is it more than two weeks march back? Maybe Stannis and his family can make it, but not his army, and even if they did there’s no food for them, they’d die anyway. But Castle Black is no place for women and kids. They are not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/357 "2015-06-12T20:26:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But Castle Black is no place for women and kids. They are not allowed. What is your name is Gilly & Li’l Sam? To be honest, I don’t think anyone other than King Crow Snow would mind if Sam were released from his oath and moved away with Gilly and New Sam. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/358 "2015-06-12T20:30:33Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What is your name is Gilly & Li’l Sam? Who are a source of controversy, are they not? And, in any case, that would mean abandoning all his men, which means Stannis’s plans would fail, which means the World dies. So yeah, by giving up his men and his honor and the fate of the world, Stannis could save his wife and kid for a few months. the fact that he didnt makes him King material. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/359 "2015-06-12T20:34:48Z")
Lets say by some miracle Mel comes through and Stannis captures Winterfell. Now what? What next? He is still in the middle of the worst winter in living memory with ice demons apparently now taking off the kid gloves. Can he even make it out of Winterfell before the dead Bolton soldiers start twitching? Being holed up in WF for winter seems not much better of a prospect. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/360 "2015-06-12T21:04:50Z")
Retreating to Castle Black means staying there for the next decade or however long the winter lasts. It means losing his mercenary army and any hope of winning the war. It means no chance to unite the kingdom in time to face the real threat. It’s not simply “lets just try again later”, its basically giving up and waiting to die. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922.md?page=19)