# Game of Thrones 5.09 "The Dance of Dragons" 6/7/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 7, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922 "2015-06-07T21:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/361 "2015-06-13T00:52:17Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A terrible choice, a heartbreaking, awful thing to do, but the kind of desperate gamble that a great leader must sometimes take. > > It sure doesn’t make me like Stannis any better, though. In his world, it’s not a super crazy decision to make. Magic is freaking real. But shit, I still fucking hate that guy. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/362 "2015-06-13T01:20:23Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Lets say by some miracle Mel comes through and Stannis captures Winterfell. > > Now what? What next? My best guess is rebuild the army with all of the pro-Stark/Baratheon & anti-Bolton/Frey/Lannister Northmen he can find and head south. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/363 "2015-06-13T01:37:17Z")
Since Mance Rayder was the “king beyond the wall”, why didn’t his burning help Stannis? After all, he had king’s blood. Or did Jon Snow’s arrow mess that up? If so, Mel and Stannis certainly didn’t make a big deal about it. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/364 "2015-06-13T01:40:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My best guess is rebuild the army with all of the pro-Stark/Baratheon & anti-Bolton/Frey/Lannister Northmen he can find and head south. Is there enough food stores in Winterfell to feed his army? I was going to say I renember hearing 20K soldiers, but maybe that is high. I’m saying by some miracle he captures WF, then he will be in another tough spot, who does he burn then? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/365 "2015-06-13T01:41:34Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Since Mance Rayder was the “king beyond the wall”, why didn’t his burning help Stannis? After all, he had king’s blood. Or did Jon Snow’s arrow mess that up? If so, Mel and Stannis certainly didn’t make a big deal about it. The Lord of Light didn’t think he counted. Consider that the free folk don’t bend the knee. I’d guess that Mance was a leader, but wasn’t a king in the sense that the entity granting the powers agreed with. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/366 "2015-06-13T01:44:30Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Is there enough food stores in Winterfell to feed his army? I was going to say I renember hearing 20K soldiers, but maybe that is high. > > I’m saying by some miracle he captures WF, then he will be in another tough spot, who does he burn then? If one guy in all of Westeros had his granieries filled early, it was Ned Stark. Also, once at Winterfell, he’d be near the Stark’s vassals. Who presumably have food. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/367 "2015-06-13T01:49:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If one guy in all of Westeros had his granieries filled early, it was Ned Stark. Which was burned by Ramsay Bolton when he took Winterfell from Theon Greyjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/368 "2015-06-13T02:00:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Which was burned by Ramsay Bolton when he took Winterfell from Theon Greyjoy. Did they specifically say he burned the winter stores? I assume that stuff is underground since it’s intended to last several years. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/369 "2015-06-13T12:18:36Z")
Food aside, the advantage to being in Winterfell is that it is a defendable, sheltered location as opposed to out in the open sleeping in tents. There’s also the psychological effect of occupying the de facto capital of the North with the authority that goes along with that. I will say that the decision to burn Shireen was definitely in character for Stannis; his strongest quality is his unbending nature, which can be a strength for sure but can take him too far. His moment of tenderness with Shireen was the most human we’ve seen him be. Perhaps he did make the right decision given his situation and the world in which he exists, but yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/370 "2015-06-13T15:53:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Did they specifically say he burned the winter stores? > > I assume that stuff is underground since it’s intended to last several years. Roose Bolton stated that they had six month’s worth of stores,when discussing Stannis’s approaching force, as well as the walls had been rebuilt. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/371 "2015-06-15T02:38:06Z")
Behind the scenes, filming the Hardhome massacre: [Game of Thrones Season 5: Episode #8 - The Massacre at Hardhome (HBO) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9q1CXdqtXM) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922.md?page=18)