# Game of Thrones 5.09 "The Dance of Dragons" 6/7/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 7, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922 "2015-06-07T21:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/21 "2015-06-08T02:26:34Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Killing Renly and sort of Robb wasn’t enough? Robb and Renly were both playing the game of thrones. I don’t think either deserved to die, but they were essentially willing combatants. Shireen was a little girl who he burned alive and screaming. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/22 "2015-06-08T02:27:42Z")
So Stannis is pretty firmly in the Lawful Evil camp now. Dany is still Chaotic Stupid, Tyrion is Chaotic Neutral (with good tendencies), leaving Jon Snow as Chaotic Good. Wondering how Jorah, Tyrion, the girl, and the Boytoy make it out of the arena. Assuming they do, maybe somebody should arrange for the other two dragons to escape. Still a lot of loose ends to wrap up next week. I’m guessing Cersei will get her comeuppance, maybe the attack on Winterfell will be resolved, maybe Arya gets to personally kill whatshisname, and somebody important will die…maybe Jon Snow, since he’s pretty much the only semi-heroic figure left on the continent… ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/23 "2015-06-08T02:32:41Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Robb and Renly were both playing the game of thrones. I don’t think either deserved to die, but they were essentially willing combatants. Shireen was a little girl who he burned alive and screaming. From Robb’s standpoint he was marching to avenge his father, then yes…he went all King of the North…Stannis should have been a little less pigheaded about that. Robb’s father did what little he could to see that Stannis was put on the throne. Had Stannis not killed Robb (If you believe he did with the leeches) then Stannis wouldn’t have to march on Winterfell. He’d be at the Wall right now hashing it out with Robb. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/24 "2015-06-08T02:37:16Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > From Robb’s standpoint he was marching to avenge his father, then yes…he went all King of the North…Stannis should have been a little less pigheaded about that. Robb’s father did what little he could to see that Stannis was put on the throne. > > Had Stannis not killed Robb (If you believe he did with the leeches) then Stannis wouldn’t have to march on Winterfell. He’d be at the Wall right now hashing it out with Robb. Just because he burned a leech doesn’t make Stannis responsible for Robb, or Joffrey. And Renly was entirely in the wrong, he should’ve supported Stannis. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/25 "2015-06-08T02:39:28Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Who could possibly have forseen the Mother of Dragons being rescued by a freaking dragon??? Inconceivable! I don’t think that word means what you think it does. (Sorry, I couldn’t help it) Yeah, fuck Stannis. I never like him anyway. Who’d have thought the insane zealot mother would be the reasonable one? Once Davos starts strangling puppies there will truly be no one left in Westoros that can be counted on. Once someone cites “The Greater Good”, start the atrocity meter. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/26 "2015-06-08T02:48:26Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Just because he burned a leech doesn’t make Stannis responsible for Robb, or Joffrey. And Renly was entirely in the wrong, he should’ve supported Stannis. Renly was completely in the wrong. But he was still Stannis’s brother so not only does that make Stannis a kinslayer, but a craven one for using sorcery in the dead of night to kill his brother. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/27 "2015-06-08T02:59:48Z")
Think of how many people would have died if he _hadn’t_ killed his brother that way. There would have been a giant battle where hundreds would have been slain. Sorcery saved a lot of lives that day at the cost of one usurper. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/28 "2015-06-08T03:01:32Z")
You know, Stannis is really going to kick himself if it turns out that there’s plenty of Kings’ blood in the jarred fetuses. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/29 "2015-06-08T03:16:54Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Think of how many people would have died if he _hadn’t_ killed his brother that way. There would have been a giant battle where hundreds would have been slain. Sorcery saved a lot of lives that day at the cost of one usurper. Tyrion: “My father would have liked you” ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/30 "2015-06-08T03:52:39Z")
Poor Shireen didn’t even get the meager mercer Jon afforded Mance. That was pretty harsh, especially when you hear her screams of terror morph into screams of agony. > [@Oakminster](#): > > leaving Jon Snow as Chaotic Good. Jon Snow is lawful good all the way. He’s the paladin-iest paladin to ever paladin. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/31 "2015-06-08T03:56:13Z")
It’s possible that for the magic to work, she _had_ to burn to death ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/32 "2015-06-08T03:57:40Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Jon Snow is lawful good all the way. He’s the paladin-iest paladin to ever paladin. He lost his paladin status when he boinked the hot red headed wildling, if not when he attempted to flee the Night Watch. Both were decidedly chaotic acts. ---
**Author:** ![F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.Pu-du-he-pa-as)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/33 "2015-06-08T04:00:01Z")
So, was Daenerys’s now-deceased husband-to-be in on the plot with the harpies? On the one hand, he was the one urging her to start the games again, and he’s allied with the aristocracy, but he did get stabbed…unless the Sons of the Harpy were working with him as long as it was convenient for them, but wanted to off him at the first opportunity for collaborating with the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/34 "2015-06-08T04:11:30Z")
Where were Dany’s unsullied once that attack started? Surely they should have shown up at the arena. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/35 "2015-06-08T04:16:48Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > He lost his paladin status when he boinked the hot red headed wildling, if not when he attempted to flee the Night Watch. Both were decidedly chaotic acts. No, he never tried to “flee” the Night’s Watch. He followed the orders he was given by the Halfhand, who explicitly told him that he must not balk, whatever is asked of him, and do as they (the wildlings) bid him. Now you could possibly make an argument that shacking up with Ygritte wasn’t strictly necessary as part of maintaining his cover, but that argument could go either way. And anyway, his oath as a man of the Watch is only that he will take no wives and father no children, which he did neither with her. He’s pretty clean. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/36 "2015-06-08T04:16:51Z")
> [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > So, was Daenerys’s now-deceased husband-to-be in on the plot with the harpies? On the one hand, he was the one urging her to start the games again, and he’s allied with the aristocracy, but he did get stabbed…unless the Sons of the Harpy were working with him as long as it was convenient for them, but wanted to off him at the first opportunity for collaborating with the enemy. He could have had the same relationship with the Harpies that Cersei has with the High Sparrow. Empower them only to be consumed by them. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/37 "2015-06-08T04:17:27Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Where were Dany’s unsullied once that attack started? Surely they should have shown up at the arena. They were there the entire fight. Almost everyone in the ring around Dany was Unsullied. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/38 "2015-06-08T04:18:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Where were Dany’s unsullied once that attack started? Surely they should have shown up at the arena. She had at least a dozen Unsullied there with her guarding her, did you not see them? Though sure, more would have helped. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/39 "2015-06-08T04:19:27Z")
I swear a solemn vow to the thread that this will be my last post regarding alignment: > [@Oakminster](#): > > He lost his paladin status when he boinked the hot red headed wildling, if not when he attempted to flee the Night Watch. Both were decidedly chaotic acts. Jon Snow is still lawful good despite those minor transgressions for the same reason Stannis is still lawful evil despite is minor transgression of not executing Davos. It was right and proper lawfulness to have him executed, and he gave the order, but Melisandre convinced him to pardon Davos solely because Davos would be useful. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/40 "2015-06-08T04:40:38Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Once someone cites “The Greater Good”, start the atrocity meter. > > ☹ Does not excuse it, but she was dead anyways. They can’t get to winterfell with the amount of snow in the pass. Had she been sent on with Davos, her percentage rises , but with the blue ghouls and walkers coming to a meeting engagement with the wall, she and everyone else is going to be at risk of being an army of the dead. We always knew she was going to be sacrificed at some point, there was no need to bring her on the campaign otherwise. Declan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922.md?page=3)