# Game of Thrones 5.09 "The Dance of Dragons" 6/7/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 7, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922 "2015-06-07T21:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/141 "2015-06-08T17:20:52Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > A couple of thoughts: > > It was probably a mistake to schedule the first games on “Gold Mask Day” at the Mereenarena. You know, when we go to sporting events, they search us to make sure we’re not smuggling in weapons or booze. Ya think they could have checked for fucking\* gold masks?\*:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/142 "2015-06-08T17:22:03Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Fuck Stannis, > [@G0sp3l](#): > > fuck Stannis > [@Garula](#): > > fuck Stannis > [@Shakester](#): > > fuck Stannis Band name! ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/143 "2015-06-08T17:22:12Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Wait I thought Hardhome was behind the wall? It is, but the walls weakness is that it has spots where you can slip around. The seaward side is one of them. My guess was based on, when winter finally hits in full stride, there is going to be an ice bridge, they can simply walk across. Declan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/144 "2015-06-08T17:22:18Z")
> [@grude](#): > > And why the hell were the Son’s killing what looked like presumably former slave owning nobles in the audience?! I thought that is who they want to restore to power. Those were probably the moderates who accepted Dany’s rule and wouldnt support the violence. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/145 "2015-06-08T17:23:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You know, when we go to sporting events, they search us to make sure we’re not smuggling in weapons or booze. Ya think they could have checked for fucking\* gold masks?\*:rolleyes: Or, you know, the daggers they used to kill everyone. I think those would have been even more important to frisk for than the masks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/146 "2015-06-08T17:25:11Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think the biggest irony is that going back to Castle Black and wintering there would have been the best possible course to take. Specially if he still held Dragonstone and its dragon glass deposits. They likely couldnt make it and Castle Black doesnt have enuf food to feed them for the Winter. That wasnt a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/147 "2015-06-08T17:25:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > At this point, the show has established that the Lord of Light is real, and Stannis knows it. This is an interesting point. We know the Lord of Light is real, because of the ghost baby, as well as the reincarnation of the leader of the Brotherhood Without Banners who was split nearly in two by The Hound. Do we have any other incontrovertible demonstrations of the powers of the other gods worshipped in the show? The Drowned God? The Old Gods? The New Gods? The Red God? Though I suppose the shape shifting power of the Faceless Men comes from the Red God. So far, it looks like the Lord of Light is the only one you could count on in a pinch to get you out of a tight place. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/148 "2015-06-08T17:26:00Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Lost on the night. Yes they did. > > If your standard for easy is “the largest army ever can defeat people when the defenders are outnumbered 2,000 to 1… eventually” then yeah, it’s easy to get past the Wall. I’m sorry. I should have put a million qualifiers on it. Anyway… for an army of the dead… EASY. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/149 "2015-06-08T17:26:31Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > This is an interesting point. We know the Lord of Light is real, because of the ghost baby, as well as the reincarnation of the leader of the Brotherhood Without Banners who was split nearly in two by The Hound. > > Do we have any other incontrovertible demonstrations of the powers of the other gods worshipped in the show? The Drowned God? The Old Gods? The Red God? Though I suppose the shape shifting power of the Faceless Men comes from the Red God. > > So far, it looks like the Lord of Light is the only one you could count on in a pinch to get you out of a tight place. The Red God is the Lord of Light, aka R’hllor. The Faceless Men worship the Many-Faced God, death. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/150 "2015-06-08T17:31:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Right, it was the best choice. And note he only made it after his daughter said she’d give anything to help him. The funny thing is , had he waited until Davo’s returned, he may have been able to use that Giant. Regardless of how deep the snow is for a normal man, I doubt that it would stop a Giant from simply stepping over winterfell walls, and dropping off a message saying Jon Snow wants a word. Right now, only the NW knows that shit is coming down, Stannis believes it, but has not seen it, and everyone else still thinks the NW is getting a bug up their ass about childhood stories. A giant showing up would go a long way to making the stark banners re-evaluate the situation. So as it stands, we have the remains of the Stark Bannermen in Winterfell, Stannis and his force, somewhere between castle black and winterfell, and a shit load of merc’s some place between Stannis and castle black, and the remains of the wildlings. At most, 30k effectives. Declan ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/151 "2015-06-08T17:33:29Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Just because he burned a leech doesn’t make Stannis responsible for Robb, or Joffrey. And Renly was entirely in the wrong, he should’ve supported Stannis. After having seen the last episode, you should think that Renly was _entirely_ right about not wanting Stannis as king. Anyway, I wasn’t very bothered about Stannis having killed his brother. More about him burning people to death. Still, I thought that his love for his daughter would be his redemption. Through his discourse with his daughter, I was hoping the show maker were playing on our nerves and that by “making hard decision to the man your meant to be” he in fact meant being a father rather than a king. This time the saying applies to me : “If you think this is going to end well, you haven’t been paying attention”. I was completely taken by surprise by Shoreen’s mother’s reaction. I’m assuming either Stannis or Melisandre are going to die by her hand > [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > So, was Daenerys’s now-deceased husband-to-be in on the plot with the harpies? My guess would be that he was an accomplice, but they turned on him because he “betrayed the cause” by marrying Dany, hence helping her solidify her hold on the city. On the other hand we don’t really know _what_ are the sons of the harpy. Remember the destruction of the big harpy statue at the start of the season? They might be some kind of religious fanatics, for instance. > [@Declan](#): > > We always knew she was going to be sacrificed at some point, there was no need to bring her on the campaign otherwise. > Declan I didn’t know that. She could have played a different role at some point. > [@JVDaly](#): > > This really leaves Daenerys as the only candidate that the viewers can sympathise with. At this point, she’s a sure bet to win. Is there much point even watching anymore? This would be what we expect, but I’m going to repeat : “If you think this is going to end well, you haven’t been paying attention”. OK, I’m sure it will not end with the white walkers winning and killing everybody, for instance, but I suspect GRRM might want to surprise his audience and thought of an ending that we aren’t expecting. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I think Brienne will stay healthy until she gets to use her Valyrian steel against the White Walkers. Presumably. Although being on Brienne’s side hasn’t been a good bet so far. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > In his discussion with Stannis, he sure seemed to know what was in the works. Did he not understand what was going to happen in his absence, or did he simply accept that there was nothing he could do to stop it? I think he feared it, but still had enough trust in Stannis to refuse to believe he could do such a thing. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > But they don’t have any siege weapons and while the Walkers do seem to have some level of intelligence / planning / brain activity, the rest of the minions are completely mindless. We haven’t seen anything to indicate they’d be capable of pulling off advanced war tactics beyond running at the enemy really fast en masse and being scary. So? The wall is hundreds of kilometers long (or maybe more) and essentially unguarded. I guss they could have the zombies carve through the ice or something. Although I suppose we’ll be served to a fight at Castle Black. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/152 "2015-06-08T17:34:31Z")
Does someone else thought that whathisname statement to Jon Snow is ominous? As in his good heart will actually get them all killed? This reminds me a lot of his half brother Robb not listening to the harsh advices of his advisers, who were shown to be right despite the sympathy we had for the character. Pragmactical character seem to be almost always right in this show, regardless how despicable they appear (and whatisname isn’t even really despicable). After all, the wildlings aren’t exactly a nice bunch. Who’s to say they’ll actually fight the white walker rather than turning against the watch and everybody else and making their way towards the south, as long away as possible from the WW, all the way pillaging and murdering? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/153 "2015-06-08T17:44:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As for Stannis, […] The way the situation unfolded left him with little choice. At this point, the show has established that the Lord of Light is real, and Stannis knows it. And the sacrifice of his own daughter was presented as the only possible option to save the world. > > Remember, Stannis isn’t just fighting to be king. He’s fighting because he’s been told explicitly that he must become king for the world to be saved. […] > > Stannis’ strength is that he’s capable of doing the hard thing when faced with no other options. This was the ultimate example of that: The choice was devastating to him personally, but he didn’t let that stop him from doing what had to be done. Your arguments make a lot of sense and you might be right. Stannis might have done what actually needed to be done. His choice might prove to have been the correct one later on. He might be the “hero”. Not the usual kind of hero, but quite fitting given GRRM’s style. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/154 "2015-06-08T17:47:26Z")
You figure after that somewhat botched public execution Dany would figure out that she shouldn’t get into situations that she can’t adequately secure. In a stadium full of uncontrolables, that was just bad security right there. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/155 "2015-06-08T17:48:03Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > The Red God is the Lord of Light, aka R’hllor. The Faceless Men worship the Many-Faced God, death. Hmm. When Arya first meets up with Jaquen H’ghar, he says [she stole three lives from the Red God.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h9u-0DCoqs) I assumed that was the same god worshipped by the Faceless Men. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/156 "2015-06-08T17:48:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > This is an interesting point. We know the Lord of Light is real, because of the ghost baby, as well as the reincarnation of the leader of the Brotherhood Without Banners who was split nearly in two by The Hound. Well, to be precise, we know that both Melisandre and Thoros of Myr have done supernatural things, and both have ascribed that to the Lord of Light. I don’t think we’ve seen anything supernatural due to the Seven or the Drowned God. The Many-Faced god seems to be in charge of faceless men, and we’ve seen what they can do. The Old Gods seem to be related to Bran’s dreams of the three-eyed Raven, Jojen’s visions, etc., although I don’t know how much detail we’ve really learned about all of that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/157 "2015-06-08T17:52:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Hmm. When Arya first meets up with Jaquen H’ghar, he says [she stole three lives from the Red God.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h9u-0DCoqs) I assumed that was the same god worshipped by the Faceless Men. No. She saved the three guys in the cage when they were about to burn to death. And obviously the Red god is the Fire god, hence they escaped his grasp. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/158 "2015-06-08T17:54:30Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > No. She saved the three guys in the cage when they were about to burn to death. And obviously the Red god is the Fire god, hence they escaped his grasp. Why does Jaquen H’ghar care what the Red God wants? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/159 "2015-06-08T18:02:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why does Jaquen H’ghar care what the Red God wants? I don’t think he does. But he does about death in general. I’m not convinced his statement was deeply thought of by the show makers, but I would guess the following : They believe Death is the only god, and he has many faces. Presumably, according to them, the Red god is just an aspect of their own, and generally speaking preventing a death is cheating the multiface god and must be compensated. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922/160 "2015-06-08T18:07:09Z")
maybe this was posted but why did Jon Snow walk to the wall on the north side? What happened to ships he got from Stannis? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-09-the-dance-of-dragons-6-7-15-show-discussion/721922.md?page=9)