# Game of Thrones 5.10 "Mother's Mercy" 6/14/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526 "2015-06-14T19:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/201 "2015-06-15T19:10:28Z")
> [@twhitt](#): > > I mostly agree, but the show did a terrible job of portraying this in real time. The people who killed him were new characters, presented as mostly allies - people who in principle respected his claim to power and who had long sided with the Starks and Tullys. Robb’s opponents were real but elsewhere, and in the show, to my recollection, they were not established to be working with the Freys. This trivialized the plot Robb was following that preceded his death, in a way that Stannis’s plot was not similarly diminished. That’s probably because they deliberately didn’t portray it in real time. It was a secret backstabbing, why would they tell you that was going to happen beforehand? ---
**Author:** ![Nothar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nothar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/202 "2015-06-15T19:17:54Z")
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the over-riding theme of the episode - namely that of seeking personal vengeance over duty. Arya disobeys the faceless men and seeks personal vengeance on Meryn Trant. Brienne abandons her post watching for the light in the tower to seek personal vengeance against Stannis. Ellaria abandons her recently given vow to Prince Doran to give up her revenge plot by instead seeking vengeance against Myrcella. Olly and the Night’s Watch forsake their vows to the Lord Commander and the Watch to seek personal vengeance against Jon Snow for perceived wrongs. The only plot thread of the episode that did not have this theme were the Cersei scenes. I thought this was a really good episode and that these actions by these characters will have repercussions into next season. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/203 "2015-06-15T19:24:28Z")
The weird thing is that this was the second time the Night’s Watch assassinated their Lord Commander. They also did so in the second or third season north of the Wall at Craster’s house. Perhaps that’s a consequence of them being mostly convicts sentenced to service at the Wall? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/204 "2015-06-15T19:26:23Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Did anyone get the feeling ALL of Kings Landing will regret Cersei’s walk? Especially if both kids left die, I could see her at this point going well reign of terror. Remember she has no problem manipulating Tommen. What authority does she have left? As far as I can tell, only over a zombie knight. And tommen could be manipulated by a turnip. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Dothraki, obviously. I don’t know how much sway her status as Khaleesi to a dead Khal will hold with them Not at all. They said so very clearly in the first season. But they respect martial successes, and she did conquer several cities. And acquired dragons. So, IMO, it’s 50/50 that they will intend to join her or to capture her on behalf of whoever is their current Khal. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > She had a very good reason not to kill him. Before she swung her sword, he admitted flat-out to killing Renly with blood magic. Most of the realm knows she was with Renly when he died and understandably does not believe her story about a “shadow” killing him. This is grievously hurtful to her because she loved Renly dearly. She wants to clear her name. She clearly sentenced him to die in a pretty official fashion. Not the kind of woman to change her mind after such a statement. If Stannis isn’t dead, it will be either because she’ll be interrupted by someone (say, Ramsay) or because of some sudden revelation. > [@grude](#): > > Also the visual of the blonde girl with Jacquen’s head made me laugh out loud, but I think it was supposed to be serious. > > So Arya’s mentor KILLED HIMSELF because his pupil misbehaved?! If their cult worships death so much, why not all commit suicide tomorrow? If you love death so much it is the obvious answer. I didn’t realize that the blonde girl had turned into Jaqen. I thought someone else had walked in. The mentor killing himself makes some sense. They are no one, and obviously interchangeable. A death is the price to pay, it doesn’t matter who dies, because they’re all the same nobody. By the way, I was unhappy that they showed only Jaqen in this black and white house. I thought "Ok, I understand that they center on the main character, but seeing only Jaqen in this apparently major cult is going too far. Now, it makes sense. > [@JVDaly](#): > > Also, if one were to be picky about it, Melisandre never actually says that resurrection per se is impossible. Strictly speaking, she only says that it’s impossible to be resurrected as many times as Beric was. She was just expressing disbelief. Her exact words don’t really matter. It’s not like she appears to be the ultimate authority when it comes to the red god. > [@grude](#): > > Now there are thousands of people on the NW side who assume without Jon they will be genocided, and they are probably right. > > Shit is going to get ugly without some crazy intervention or miracle, and I’m not sure the NW can win. The miracle might be the sudden apparition of the white walkers. That might unite both side, but I’m unconvinced that they’ll be able to break the tide, even united. > [@AK84](#): > > Let’s find a tiny ring on a semi mountainous wilderness which was incidentally run over by tens of thousands of horsemen 30 second after she dropped said ring. > > Do you not notice a tiny problem there? No. It happens all the time. I wondered what the significance of this ring would be. I’m assuming now that they’re going to pull us an Aragorn. > [@Tixenfleaz](#): > > Turning the boat around would be a bad idea. The only way for Prince Doran to prevent war would be to eliminate all unfriendly witnesses and claim ignorance. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Jaime kills Trystane in a rage. Why? No, I don’t see that happening. They’re clearly in the same side, now. > [@Acsenray](#): > > My own suspicion is that ultimately Arya will fail to become a Faceless Man. I wouldn’t bet on this. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Yeah, that was a big army. Is the north all really that fully behind the Boltons? The army didn’t look that big to me. It’s rather that Stannis army was small. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I’m curious how this plays out. I don’t think she’s fully broken, but I think it did a number on her to see and hear how the people truly feel about her. I don’t know the strength of numbers, it might very well backfire if she sends out guards to try to kill all the Sparrows, but I don’t know if she has wise counsel right now that will prevent her from doing that. I don’t believe she was broken. She just lied to the Septon. She just considered (intelligently, for once) what was the minimum she would have to admit to to get out of her situation. Her tears might have been sincere, but they weren’t shed because she was repentant, but because she felt sorry for herself. And regarding sending the troops against the sparrows, and listening to advices, again I don’t think she has any authority left. > [@](#): > > The High Sparrow seems like a true believer, but I could see him maybe making political deals. I can’t. He’s never going to compromise about anything. Whatever he has decided, he has decided because he believe it’s the right thing. Hmmm…on the second thought, I’ve been fooled by more than one character in this show. I guess that him being exactly the contrary of what he appears, a schemer in disguise hungry for power is conceivable. > [@](#): > > Jon seems very likely to be dead, but I would be flabbergasted if Sansa and Theon were. That would be the most anticlimactic thing, for them to die off camera. Agree. If they intended for us to even envision they’re dead, they would have shown the still bodies on the snow. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > On a side note: the witch’s prophecy said “gold shall be their crowns, and gold their shrouds.” People have been interpreting this to mean that each of her children will have a crown, and then die (but also that Cersei will be alive to see it). The latter doesn’t necessarily follow, but does the former (crown, then die) mean that Myrcella may yet survive? I wasn’t convinced by people saying that “gold crown” could simply refer to the hair colour of her kids, but after this episode, amongst all the “deaths” we witnessed, Myrcella’s seems the most certain of all. Especially after the super nice things she said to her father. See Shoreen for a precedent. > [@G0sp3l](#): > > Arya Stark, the most lovable psychopath ever. Lovable? Not anymore for me for a while. Even less so after her last murder, regardless how deserved it was. But I still like her storyline (contrarily to most people, apparently). > [@DrDeth](#): > > Why even come off the mountain? Huh? What would you do in her situation? Let yourself die on the top of the mountain? I sure would go searching for food, for help, for people… > [@G0sp3l](#): > > Theon is dog food, probably literally, given Ramsey’s proclivities. Sansa is probably 50/50. Dog food would be absurdly merciful on Ramsey’s part. That’s what happen to people who have been very nice to him (former lovers). Hostile people are skinned alive. Traitors? Huh…I can’t begin to imagine. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > It’s going to be the Hound. Clegane Bowl 2016. I guess you’re right. It would make complete sense. > [@twhitt](#): > > I had less issue with this than with other deaths, like Rob’s. Stannis’s plot line set him against legitimate opponents who had motivation to see him undone, and large part of his failure was his own responsibility, shown unfolding over the course of those four episodes. His story led him to this point, which is rare for this show. I’m not saying that his fate doesn’t make sense in context. I meant that it doesn’t make sense to have us following this plotline for so long if it suddenly becomes irrelevant following Stannis’ death. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/205 "2015-06-15T19:53:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. It’s simply not true that “good writing” requires allegories. Allegory is but one tool of storytelling. > > 2. Even if a writer does use allegory, it makes no sense to think that every major story element has an allegorical aspect. > > 3. What looks like allegory in good writing is often not intentional on the part of a good writer. It’s simply not true that as a rule any “respected” writer “builds in” allegory into everything. > > 4. An absence of allegory does not mean that all that remains is “escapist fantasy.” Thanks for those statements. Here’s another: you’re out of your depth. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/206 "2015-06-15T19:56:14Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Thanks for those statements. Here’s another: you’re out of your depth. Err no, he’s quite right. Nothing worse than pretentious schlock that tries to wedge some kind of “deeper meaning” into everything. A good story is a good story. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/207 "2015-06-15T20:08:51Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Thanks for those statements. Here’s another: you’re out of your depth. Maybe you’re overestimating yours? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/208 "2015-06-15T20:20:43Z")
After reflecting on this episode this morning, I realized that Melisandre did perform one impressive magic trick - she managed to ride away on horseback from a camp that did not have any horses left in it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/209 "2015-06-15T20:39:29Z")
> [@Nothar](#): > > I am surprised that no one has mentioned the over-riding theme of the episode - namely that of seeking personal vengeance over duty. > > Arya disobeys the faceless men and seeks personal vengeance on Meryn Trant. > > Brienne abandons her post watching for the light in the tower to seek personal vengeance against Stannis. > > Ellaria abandons her recently given vow to Prince Doran to give up her revenge plot by instead seeking vengeance against Myrcella. > > Olly and the Night’s Watch forsake their vows to the Lord Commander and the Watch to seek personal vengeance against Jon Snow for perceived wrongs. > > The only plot thread of the episode that did not have this theme were the Cersei scenes. > > I thought this was a really good episode and that these actions by these characters will have repercussions into next season. Yeah, that’s definitely the strong theme of the episode. Cersei’s overall plot somewhat fits, in that the reason that she went to visit Margaery to rub her face in it, and that’s when she got arrested. She didn’t exactly forsake her duties, but she let her guard down for sake of vengeance. The Night’s Watch did forsake their vows, but I think for what they thought was the greater good. Alliser did straight up say the other episode that Jon’s soft heart would get them all killed, so he killed Jon before that could happen. It obviously doesn’t justify it, but it makes sense. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The weird thing is that this was the second time the Night’s Watch assassinated their Lord Commander. They also did so in the second or third season north of the Wall at Craster’s house. Perhaps that’s a consequence of them being mostly convicts sentenced to service at the Wall? Yeah, I had forgotten about that. I don’t remember really any repercussions happening for that either. It’s probably happened other times before the show has started too. > [@clairobscur](#): > > I can’t. He’s never going to compromise about anything. Whatever he has decided, he has decided because he believe it’s the right thing. Hmmm…on the second thought, I’ve been fooled by more than one character in this show. I guess that him being exactly the contrary of what he appears, a schemer in disguise hungry for power is conceivable. I don’t think the Head Sparrow would compromise. But he might agree with Uncle Kevan that it would be best for the morality of the whole country if Cersei was made an example of. Of course that’s the same strategy that Cersei used and it backfired on her, I don’t know if Uncle Kevan has any sins that could be made an example of so it backfires on him. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/210 "2015-06-15T20:43:05Z")
So I thought for sure that Theon and Sansa are supposed to have jumped to their deaths—basically, that was the way out Sansa had already resigned herself to, only to find out that no, something far worse would be in store for her. That’s what Theon saved her from, but (or so I thought) only to go along with option A. That fall did not look terribly survivable. But after reading the comments, I suppose it might be possible that they landed in the most massive snow drift ever and survived; but I think it’d have more impact (pun not intended) story-wise to have them go out by asserting themselves as the deciders of their own fates one final time. I’d be very surprised if Brienne did not go through with her execution of Stannis; it’d be a reversal on what we know about the character. The only possibility is that she figured she could somehow use him to ingratiate herself with the Boltons in order to get close to Sansa (actually, having things develop that way only to have her then find out that Sansa’s dead before the walls of the castle, being thus robbed of her chance at revenge _and_ of the possibility to fulfill her oath towards Catherine Stark would be very much in line with the character’s arc so far). I’d be slightly less surprised if Melisandre revives Jon Snow; but I think ‘killing off’ a major character for the season finale only to bring him back in the next season is a bit too cheap for the show. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/211 "2015-06-15T21:00:23Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > So I thought for sure that Theon and Sansa are supposed to have jumped to their deaths—basically, that was the way out Sansa had already resigned herself to, only to find out that no, something far worse would be in store for her. That’s what Theon saved her from, but (or so I thought) only to go along with option A. That fall did not look terribly survivable. But after reading the comments, I suppose it might be possible that they landed in the most massive snow drift ever and survived; but I think it’d have more impact (pun not intended) story-wise to have them go out by asserting themselves as the deciders of their own fates one final time. Whether or not they survived, they clearly _intended to_ hit a deep snowdrift and get away. Plenty of nice jagged places to jump and make sure you are dead. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/212 "2015-06-15T21:05:14Z")
Theon and Sansa are absolutely 100% not dead. Stannis is 100% dead. Jon, I don’t know. Probably dead at the moment but could be revived. The problem I had with the way Jon was killed, if he actually was intended to be completely dead, never to return in any way, is that the way it was done felt like a cheap cliffhanger, something this show has shied away from. In the past when this show has offed major characters (Ned, Robb, Catlyn, etc.) it has been very clear from the moment it happened that they were killed. There was never any doubt about it, so the act was shocking. This time, there was something about it that felt… unresolved maybe? The fact that so many people are not certain that he’s dead, if the writers mean for him to be dead, is a failing on their part. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/213 "2015-06-15T21:12:19Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > After reflecting on this episode this morning, I realized that Melisandre did perform one impressive magic trick - she managed to ride away on horseback from a camp that did not have any horses left in it. I’d assume the camp still had pack and wagon horses. Or, that Stannis had one of his own. When they said the horses were gone, they probably meant the trailed war-horses that are suitable for battle. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/214 "2015-06-15T21:14:08Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I’d be very surprised if Brienne did not go through with her execution of Stannis; it’d be a reversal on what we know about the character. Not really. She acts tough, but she’s a total softy. She hated the Kingslayer’s guts too but ended up falling in love with him. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/215 "2015-06-15T21:16:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Whether or not they survived, they clearly _intended to_ hit a deep snowdrift and get away. Plenty of nice jagged places to jump and make sure you are dead. Yeah. And remember, there was just a huge blizzard. The snow would be packed super high on the windward side of the castle. ---
**Author:** ![Recusant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Recusant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recusant)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/216 "2015-06-15T21:20:45Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > I’m assuming that Cersei will have the option of trial by combat, as is the custom in Westeros. ZombieGregor won’t need to take all of Westeros out, just whoever the Sparrows put up against him. Well now, that’s assuming that religious and civil law work the same way in Westeros, something we haven’t seen a great deal of evidence for. (As a side note, take a moment to appreciate that the series has enough of a world built that a simple conversation on it prompts that question.) Of course, even if there isn’t precedent for it, I can easily see Circe trying to convince the High Sparrow of it; after all, if religious law is the law of the gods, and trial by combat shows the favor of the gods, then surely it should be the standard way of resolving these things, no (here assuming that the Westerosi have not yet invented the Magic 8-ball)? > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Did anyone else think that Dany had flown all the way to Westeros before the Dothraki showed up? Based on the location, I was half expecting her to find the Hound’s dead body. > > I hope her Season 6 storyline is not just “The Hunt for Dany.” It’s time for her to make a move on Westeros. I’ve seen maps of Essos, but I don’t know how canon they are. It makes a great deal of sense to have a mountainous border between the Dothraki “sea” and the rest of the continent; how else would you keep the Dothraki from overrunning everything? And I think this past season has demonstrated with remarkable effectiveness that Daenerys doesn’t have a chance in Westeros; she can’t even hold one city together. Some may welcome her to power as a Targaryen, but that won’t let her restore order, let alone keep it. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I didn’t think the Bolton army - cavalry - was that big. Last week I believe Stannis was down to 7,000. This week he lost half overnight, and then more marching to, and as the Bolton’s approached. Maybe he had 2,000 left. > > Plus the Bolton’s were on horseback. > > The part that seemed contrived to me was Stannis getting to the woods (having been surrounded) and the big blonde turning up to finish him off. Meanwhile Psycho Bolton is elsewhere sticking his sword in peoples back. Nah. I think that may have just been to show how hopeless Stannis’s position was, and by extension his faith in the Red god/desire to die (I’m really not sure which); he was down to a few thousand infantry, no horses, no siege equipment, no (to judge from the scenes where we see his army heading into position) idea what “formation” means, no _spears_ (did he think the Boltons had no cavalry?)… I do think we all need to admit something that I haven’t seen anyone above me acknowledge, though- for all his flaws, faults, and general evilness, Ramsay showed an incredible (and, I do believe, unprecedented in the show so far) degree of clear though and pragmatism when, after killing a man who was shouting his surrender, he actually _wipes his sword off_, instead of simply sheathing it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/217 "2015-06-15T21:42:57Z")
Trial by combat is literally “let the gods decide who is right”, i would be very surprised if religious zealots were against it. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/218 "2015-06-15T21:47:25Z")
I could see next season opening with the Night’s Watch conspirators standing over Jon’s body with Ser Allister assigning one or two of them to watch his body while they go talk to Edd (he’s the last of Jon’s friends left at the wall). They drag Edd to see the body and it’s gone and the guards dead. We then see Davos and Melisandre dragging Jon’s body away. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/219 "2015-06-15T21:48:09Z")
> [@Recusant](#): > > I do think we all need to admit something that I haven’t seen anyone above me acknowledge, though- for all his flaws, faults, and general evilness, Ramsay showed an incredible (and, I do believe, unprecedented in the show so far) degree of clear though and pragmatism when, after killing a man who was shouting his surrender, he actually _wipes his sword off_, instead of simply sheathing it. Huh? He didn’t want to get his scabbard dirty. How is that at all significant? Just basic hygiene. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/220 "2015-06-15T22:38:48Z")
> [@Recusant](#): > > Well now, that’s assuming that religious and civil law work the same way in Westeros, something we haven’t seen a great deal of evidence for. (As a side note, take a moment to appreciate that the series has enough of a world built that a simple conversation on it prompts that question.) > > Of course, even if there isn’t precedent for it, I can easily see Circe trying to convince the High Sparrow of it; after all, if religious law is the law of the gods, and trial by combat shows the favor of the gods, then surely it should be the standard way of resolving these things, no (here assuming that the Westerosi have not yet invented the Magic 8-ball)? However, now that she’s safely inside the red keep, what’s the likelihood that she’s going to be willing to go through _any kind_ of trial? Kevan could force her to, I guess, but as much as he despise her, I can’t see him willingly put his family into more hardships (and more public shame), and he doesn’t seem to _hate_ her as a person, or at least not enough to rejoice at the prospect of seeing her executed or whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=12)