# Game of Thrones 5.10 "Mother's Mercy" 6/14/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526 "2015-06-14T19:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/221 "2015-06-15T23:29:22Z")
But High Sparrow is no fool, he knows what Cersai’s like. I wonder why he let her go back to the Red Keep … ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/222 "2015-06-15T23:35:21Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > But High Sparrow is no fool, he knows what Cersai’s like. I wonder why he let her go back to the Red Keep … Because he wants a confrontation with the Lannisters. He is betting King’s Landing will erupt in open revolt if Cersei retaliates. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/223 "2015-06-15T23:39:33Z")
things that are the same now as they were at the start of season 5: Lannisters still control Iron Throne (although they have issues with the Sparrows ) Dany still in Essos Boltons still control Winterfell. Arya still trying to figure out her future Sansa still on the run Night’s Watch still way undermanned Winter is still on the way along with wights and White Walkers ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/224 "2015-06-15T23:43:54Z")
At this point if I earn billions of dollars somehow I will throw money at everyone involved with this show so that the very last shot is of Ser Pounce on the throne - roll series credits. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/225 "2015-06-15T23:54:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Because he wants a confrontation with the Lannisters. He is betting King’s Landing will erupt in open revolt if Cersei retaliates. Am I naive to think that he’s actually just a pious man who tries to do what he thinks is right and figures the gods will do what they will? Didn’t Cersei pick him precisely because he was non-political, non-ambitious? Because he was a true believer? I don’t think he seeks a confrontation so much as he accepts a confrontation could happen and figures the gods will side with the righteous against the evil. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/226 "2015-06-15T23:58:32Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > At this point if I earn billions of dollars somehow I will throw money at everyone involved with this show so that the very last shot is of Ser Pounce on the throne - roll series credits. At this point, anyone from Samwell Tarly to Tyrion to Baelish to Bran could end up on the Iron Throne. The only thing I’m willing to predict with certainty is that if the point of the story is for there to be a winner, then it will be someone who has been with us from the beginning. Some of these story arcs have shown characters experience tremendous growth and I’d have to think it’s going somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/227 "2015-06-16T00:02:29Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Theon and Sansa are absolutely 100% not dead. Stannis is 100% dead. **Jon, I don’t know. Probably dead at the moment but could be revived.** The problem I had with the way Jon was killed, if he actually was intended to be completely dead, never to return in any way, is that the way it was done felt like a cheap cliffhanger, something this show has shied away from. In the past when this show has offed major characters (Ned, Robb, Catlyn, etc.) it has been very clear from the moment it happened that they were killed. There was never any doubt about it, so the act was shocking. This time, there was something about it that felt… unresolved maybe? The fact that so many people are not certain that he’s dead, if the writers mean for him to be dead, is a failing on their part. He’s only MOSTLY dead! (Sheesh, five pages of discussion on whether or not a character in a medieval fantasy series is really dead, and no one makes a _Princess Bride_ joke? I despair of the younger generation, I really do…) ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/228 "2015-06-16T00:51:35Z")
> [@Half Man Half Wit](#): > > So I thought for sure that Theon and Sansa are supposed to have jumped to their deaths—basically, that was the way out Sansa had already resigned herself to, only to find out that no, something far worse would be in store for her. That’s what Theon saved her from, but (or so I thought) only to go along with option A. That fall did not look terribly survivable. But after reading the comments, I suppose it might be possible that they landed in the most massive snow drift ever and survived; but I think it’d have more impact (pun not intended) story-wise to have them go out by asserting themselves as the deciders of their own fates one final time. This. I thought it was quite beautiful, them reuniting to escape Ramsey’s torture the only way possible (and a way that had been denied to them until this moment): death. After all the brutality and suffering, that’s all they had left to regain their independence. This was probably the most pure act Sansa’s ever taken. And definitely Theon’s redemption. I figure, if there’s only two seasons left, they’re cutting some dead weight off the plot. It’s endgame time. Brienne killing Stannis was also quite beautiful. I was always on team Renly. The best of all was the long, slow, painful death of Meryn. This episode was extremely satisfying. For all the corpses, Game of Thrones now has more likable characters left than at any point previous. Likable people: Brienne, Jaime, Ser Onion, Margery, Olenna, Loras, Arya, Podrick, Dany, Tyrion, Varys, Grey Worm, Missandei, Daario, Jorah (can anyone believe Jorah survived this season?), Jaqen H’ghar, Bronn, Bran, Sam. Villains left: Roose, Ramsey, Littlefinger, Cersei, Melissandre, High Sparrow (dude’s a dick). I eagerly await more death. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/229 "2015-06-16T01:18:39Z")
I don’t know how anyone thought Theon and Sansa were committing suicide. It did look a little high but onto the thick, freshly-fallen snow one would expect some injuries but fatalities? No way. That was an escape scene and in no way was meant to convey anything other than that. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/230 "2015-06-16T01:21:59Z")
I knew Arya was in trouble when she revealed who she was to Meryn. She is NOT ready to be no one. What Arya has yet to figure out is that “there is no spoon.” There’s no Jaquen. Everyone in the cult is interchangeable. There could have been dozens of Jaquens that she interacted with and had no idea overall that they were any different. There’s no ultimate identity of any of them. You’ve become a “mush” of different identities until you’re nobody. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/231 "2015-06-16T01:28:14Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > On a side note: the witch’s prophecy said “gold shall be their crowns, and gold their shrouds.” People have been interpreting this to mean that each of her children will have a crown, and then die (but also that Cersei will be alive to see it). The latter doesn’t necessarily follow, but does the former (crown, then die) mean that Myrcella may yet survive? She hadn’t married Trystane yet, so she doesn’t have a crown yet, does she? To me it referred to their golden hair, as opposed to the Baratheon black hair. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/232 "2015-06-16T01:30:45Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > …I’m a little bummed that we didn’t get any closure on Loras and Margaery this season. I like them and I’d like to see them come out on top. At least we know pretty clearly that Cersei is coming out on bottom… I’m pissed we didn’t get to see that too, but there’s always next season. Hopefully the High Sparrow is forced to acquit them through gritted teeth, and Cersei has to watch a fully clothed as Margaery get escorted by an honour guard of Goldcloaks to the Red Keep. > [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > I’m surprised that nobody has brought up Cercei yet. I imagine that the worst thing for her was the fact that her family either didn’t show up (Tommen, Jaime) or didn’t give her any emotional support (Kevan). I never thought I would feel bad for Cercei, but… Well as far as she knows Jaime is still in Dorne (or he was killed trying to rescue Myrcella), she wouldn’t expect Kevan to support her, and Tommen seeing her like that would only make it worse for her. > [@DigitalC](#): > > It doesn’t matter how strong their presence is, the sparrows basically have the support of the entire population. You saw the crowd out there, the goldcloaks would’ve got slaughtered. That, and I imagine the Sparrows guarding were under orders to kill her at the first sign of a rescue attempt (& this would have been made clear to the Small Council). > [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > It also occurs to me that House Baratheon has effectively been wiped off the face of the earth, right? Robert is dead, Stannis is dead, and Renly is dead. Were there any other Baratheons? Who’s in charge of Dragonstone and the Baratheon kingdom now? Tommen is still legally head of house Baratheon, and heir to whatever lands they had. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > As soon as Cersei entered the castle, I thought she might say, “Kill them all.” But perhaps not; I don’t think she was entirely faking her contrition (although she didn’t fess up to the incest). I think the sparrows broke her. She very strategically confessed to just enough to avoid being killed and/or invaliding Tommen’s claim to the Iron Throne. > [@Tangent](#): > > Big props to Lena Headey for baring it all for “The Passion of the Cersei.” As much as I hate the character, that was tough to watch. As much of an evil cunt Cersei is I agreed that was hard to watch (at the same time she deserves _worse_). > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > …Does Cersei still have a trial to go through? The walk was her atonement, but the Sparrow said that she needed to go through a trial, and it would prove if she was lying about the other charges she still plead innocent to…Yeah, I liked that. It was a good idea for Tyrion to be in charge with Grey Worm and Missandei, that should be fun to see… Yes, the High Sparrow made it quite clear that she’s still going to be charged for incest and treason. > [@Emiliana](#): > > I’m assuming that Cersei will have the option of trial by combat, as is the custom in Westeros. ZombieGregor won’t need to take all of Westeros out, just whoever the Sparrows put up against him… When Cersei asked how Loras and Margaery he specifically said they would be tried by judges of the Faith (himself & six other septons & septas) like in ancient times. It’s not clear that they were giving a choice of trial by combat (something I could see Loras insisting on). > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > …I don’t think the Head Sparrow would compromise. But he might agree with Uncle Kevan that it would be best for the morality of the whole country if Cersei was made an example of. Of course that’s the same strategy that Cersei used and it backfired on her, I don’t know if Uncle Kevan has any sins that could be made an example of so it backfires on him. Unlike his niece Kevan isn’t stupid enough to get anywhere near the High Sparrow without his own army. Ditto for Oleanna (or any other power player). > [@DigitalC](#): > > Trial by combat is literally “let the gods decide who is right”, i would be very surprised if religious zealots were against it. Trial by combat could be some older pre-Faith custom that they just punt their stamp on and the Sparrows could denounce it just like modern Christian fundamentalist reject stuff superficially Christian, but with pagan origins. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/233 "2015-06-16T01:37:58Z")
Rampant Jon Snow speculation: [Is Jon Snow Actually Dead On 'Game Of Thrones'? Here Are The Theories | HuffPost Entertainment](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/14/game-of-thrones-finale-jon-snow-dead_n_7557158.html) ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/234 "2015-06-16T01:56:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Rampant Jon Snow speculation: [Is Jon Snow Actually Dead On 'Game Of Thrones'? Here Are The Theories | HuffPost Entertainment](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/14/game-of-thrones-finale-jon-snow-dead_n_7557158.html) Interesting… I did think that the loooong state between Jon and the leader of the White Walkers was going _somewhere_. Would be odd for all of that to be pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/235 "2015-06-16T02:03:03Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Trial by combat could be some older pre-Faith custom that they just punt their stamp on and the Sparrows could denounce it just like modern Christian fundamentalist reject stuff superficially Christian, but with pagan origins. This is the [Faith Militant](http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Faith_Militant) we’re talking about here. They’re all about the bloodshed. I mentioned it upthread, but now with Zombie-Mountain as a fully instated member of the Kingsguard, [CleganeBowl](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cleganebowl) 2016 is inevitable fact (as acting Queen Regent, Cersei is required to choose her champion from among the Kingsguard, and although Sandor was presumed to be left for dead, since we didn’t see him actually die on-camera we know in _GoT_ world that means he’s probably not dead). Sandor always held a grudge against his brother (he burned his face, after all) and yet we’ve never seen the two of them together. This is obviously the groundwork for the fraternal showdown of house Clegane. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/236 "2015-06-16T02:13:27Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Sandor always held a grudge against his brother (he burned his face, after all) and yet we’ve never seen the two of them together. You mean apart from the big scene in season one where the Mountain (Mk1) was jousting with Loras and the Hound jumped in to fight off his brother? [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaIwtO6VWCU) scene here? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/237 "2015-06-16T02:13:43Z")
Oh and I just recently discovered this but there’s an entire subreddit for [/r/cleganebowl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cleganebowl/) and they seem to be… very excited after this last episode, to put it mildly. > [@Shakester](#): > > You mean apart from the big scene in season one where the Mountain (Mk1) was jousting with Loras and the Hound jumped in to fight off his brother? Sorry, totally forgot about that but yeah… they still need to fight to the death. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/238 "2015-06-16T02:40:24Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Interesting… I did think that the loooong state between Jon and the leader of the White Walkers was going _somewhere_. Would be odd for all of that to be pointless. Kit says he is not coming back for season six, I would allow filming in 6 just for back story purposes, but officially dead. He never said anything about not coming back for season 7. Declan ---
**Author:** ![toombs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9f8e36/32.png) [@toombs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toombs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/239 "2015-06-16T02:41:02Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I’d be slightly less surprised if Melisandre revives Jon Snow; but I think ‘killing off’ a major character for the season finale only to bring him back in the next season is a bit too cheap for the show. okay but, since the plotlines that made it relevant in the books (so far) have been left out of the show, why even bother introducing the element of Thoros of Myr being able to resurrect Beric? Why show him explaining it to Melisandre? Since the showrunners have probably known about the Ides of the Watch plot point for a long time, all of that seems like great big giant foreshadowing that resurrection is going to come into play in a much bigger way later. The fact that they sent Melisandre off to Castle Black at the right moment seals it for me. She’s a little off her game right now, but, this was the reason we saw her cozy up to Jon Snow earlier in the season - if Stannis ain’t “the one”, then maybe Jon is. Otherwise why was that scene and the hinting he was special even included? Honestly, the story writing is worse off if Jon _isn’t_ resurrected. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/240 "2015-06-16T02:46:44Z")
isn’t it inevitable that the whitewalkers would overrun the wall? wildings or no, isn’t it kind of anti-climatic/optimistic for this show that they would be stopped before they’ve made a sizeable impact on Westeros main? i’m trying to picture the whitewalkers dealt with and the people of King’s Landing still believing them to be a myth. the dragons aren’t going to circle around or skip Westeros to face the whitewalkers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=13)