# Game of Thrones 5.10 "Mother's Mercy" 6/14/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526 "2015-06-14T19:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/261 "2015-06-16T13:58:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So no one at the Wall knows that dragonglass and Valyrian steel can kill White Walkers. That’s not good. My thought as well. Sam leaving, and Jon dying, wipes out a lot of knowledge. And Melisandre could bring Jon back…if Davos doesn’t kill her first, when he finds out what happened to the princess. Which would be just like GRRM. Irony! Hah! So with Stannis’ death, the civil war is basically over, right? (not counting Dany, who is planning a war but not ready yet) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/262 "2015-06-16T14:00:47Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Is Drogon seriously injured or just tired or just stubborn? According to the showrunners, in the “Inside Episode 10” featurette — he just wants to sleep and heal. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/263 "2015-06-16T14:12:39Z")
And by the way, I just loved the exchange between Tyrion and Varys—especially the Han-Soloing: “I really did miss you.”—“I know.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/264 "2015-06-16T14:18:10Z")
The “trick” or the attraction of Martin has never been the fact that beloved of heroic characters simply die before the end of the story. It’s that being heroic or beloved or good doesn’t protect a character from consequences. There’s no automatic escape. This, these deaths flow from the story. They don’t randomly end the stories of beloved characters simply because they were beloved. Ned Stark’s story ended because his story really was at an end. Everything he had done had led to his death. There were no guns in the first act that remained to reappear in the final act. It had all been done. Same with Robb Stark. There was nothing left over. That’s what seems different about Jon Snow. His story doesn’t seem over because of all the non-reappearing guns—his parentage, his being the sole character trying to deal seriously with the threat of the White Walkers. That look that the Night’s King have him. Everything imied “this is not over.” ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/265 "2015-06-16T14:30:41Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > …That’s one of the things that pissed me off so much with Shireen’s death–he introduced a Nicholas Sparks character for the sole purpose of torturing her to death. It’s weak writing to keep going to the same well and now he’s used it on Jon, Stannis (apparently)–which makes Shireen’s death all the more pointless… If her death was pointless, her _existence_ (as a character created for story purposes) was pointless. She existed to be the last, worst act in Stannis’ fall. As others have said, she had to be sweet and likable to make the audience feel the same sense of awfulness that most of the characters felt – half of Stannis’ army left, Selyse did a 180, and you know Stannis must have hated himself. And then he got what he asked for, but at the cost of everything else. The point is, she existed in the story in the first place. If she wasn’t burned, she would just starve to death hanging out in the snow, or be captured by Ramsey after Stannis’ defeat (which would surely be worse, can you imagine?). If either of those were her fate, her existence and death would be pretty pointless. As it was, it was the point where Stannis sold his soul and in classic fashion got exactly what he asked for but it came accompanied by tragic side effects. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/266 "2015-06-16T14:31:29Z")
So who gets Jon Snow’s sword … and who does Mad Mel latch onto … ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/267 "2015-06-16T14:36:49Z")
> [@troub](#): > > As it was, it was the point where Stannis sold his soul and in classic fashion got exactly what he asked for but it came accompanied by tragic side effects. You’re right, it was a classic Faustian bargain; and this makes me wonder even more if the religion of the red god isn’t supposed to be an allusion to Christianity (at least in being a monotheistic religion replacing older, ‘pagan’ faiths), but to its opposite—after all, there’s also the name ‘Lord of Light’, which could be read as alluding to Lucifer, i.e. Lightbringer. Or am I just slow for only catching on to that now? ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/268 "2015-06-16T14:40:06Z")
Books. Books books books. Books book booky book-book. Books books. _Books!_ Books books books books _books_. Books. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/269 "2015-06-16T14:57:49Z")
Not convinced Stannis is dead, whatever the producers say – if they wanted everyone to be sure he was dead, they would show him dying. They chose to cut away for a reason – either to keep him alive, or to have the audience think he might still be alive. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Jon Snow is absolutely not coming back in any way, shape, or form. Interview with the actor (Kit Harington) confirms: > > [Game of Thrones star on that shocking death: ‘I’m not coming back’](http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview) Producers and actors lie all the time. Why wouldn’t they? With Melisandre at the wall and the memory of Thoros resurrecting Beric, they wrote the story at least to preserve this hope/chance for resurrection. Everything is written and shot for a purpose – Mel went to the wall for some reason, and arrived before Jon was stabbed for a reason. We’ll see, but I don’t take the word of the producers and actors on things like this at all. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/270 "2015-06-16T15:38:34Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Big props to Lena Headey for baring it all for “The Passion of the Cersei.” As much as I hate the character, that was tough to watch. Some interesting information about that scene: > **[Game of Thrones' shocking nude scene was complicated, and expensive, to shoot](https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/15/8782223/game-of-thrones-shocking-nude-scene-behind-the-scenes)** > > Your source for the latest in video games, sci-fi, fantasy, tabletop games, anime, horror, books, and comics. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/271 "2015-06-16T15:43:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > And with Jon dead, what do we care about what happens at the Wall at this point? Jon had to fail one way or another, the white walker threat was not going to be stopped at the wall. If they are sticking with the seven seasons plan then season six seems about right for the main threat to finally show up in the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/272 "2015-06-16T15:47:10Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Seriously though. I did not see that ending coming. I figured the kid might do something stupid, but not that. But if they were going to do that anyway, why did the First Ranger guy open the doors for them in the first place? Seems kind of silly to me… I think Ser Alliser realized he needed time to conspire with other NW men and find a less-public place to do in Jon Snow. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > …Kind of annoyed that Danaerys’ plot has sprung yet another loose thread. Still, I was practically giddy seeing the Varys’ reunion with Tyrion. I love those two together… Me too! It’ll be interesting to see them working with Missendei and Grey Worm to keep the city running while Dany’s gone. Ser Jorah and Daario are also in for a buddy adventure. Woohoo! > [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > What happened to Melisandre? It looked like she didn’t just abandon the losing side; it looked like she had a major crisis of faith-- she did everything the Lord of Light told her to, and not only did Stannis’s followers abandon them in droves, the visions she saw in the flames were not what came to pass. The Lord of Light lied to her? Or, the Lord of Light showed her what she needed to know so that she would accomplish what needed to be accomplished, but Melisandre had come to see herself a leader and an emissary of the Lord of Light, and not as just one more cog in the Lord of Light’s grand plan, to be used and then discarded? All good questions. Her crisis of the faith - especially if it leads to her resurrecting Jon Snow - could be an important subplot in the next season. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And I like that we finally saw the Frankenstein monster. Yes! Those eyes… brrrr. > [@EllisDee](#): > > …If Jon is going to be raised, whoever does it will have to step in front of that mob that’s still standing around him prepping to burn his body. No mob that I saw. They all turned their backs and were walking away. Davos, the Red Priestess or someone else could scarper with the corpse. > [@zombywoof](#): > > …for an obvious example, some people reading these threads might want to go back and read the books and not be confronted with book spoilers (there were some pretty major things in the books that didn’t make it into the show) - just follow the frigging rule, it isn’t that hard. Amen. We’ve been over this before. Read and heed the OP, please, folks. > [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Oh, I don’t think she’s broken at all. I think she will unleash her inner Joffrey. I think she is battered and bent but not broken. She’s gonna open up a can of whupass just as soon as she can. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/273 "2015-06-16T16:02:39Z")
I suspect they will lock up Jon’s body along with Mel in an ice cell together beneath the wall. At some point, someone will come along to check on them, find Mel’s mummified body, the cell door open and Jon gone. (no imagery there!) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/274 "2015-06-16T16:05:52Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > why would Brienne not finish off Stannis? Even if she left him alone he was in real bad shape anyway and likely would have died soon. > [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Stannis clearly did not want to go on living at that point anyway; having Brienne show up and kill him was probably the high point of his whole week. Yes, things pretty much turned to shit for Stannis, didn’t they? But I have to think that we were not shown him slain for a reason. Perhaps Brienne will stay her hand, reasoning that she doesn’t have the lawful authority to execute him, or respecting him for his candor in admitting killing Renly through blood magic, and his true-to-form last words, “Do your duty.” Or realize he might be a valuable bargaining chip to get Sansa from the Boltons…? I dunno. It would certainly be truer to her character for her to kill him. > [@BlackKnight](#): > > Where’s your Lord of Light NOW, huh?! (Sorry, I’m just feeling vindicated for doubting the powers of the Red Witch in last week’s thread. :D) I wonder if Davos will ever learn the specifics of what happened to Shireen. Does anyone still want to argue that Stannis made the right decision?.. Yes, for the reasons I stated in that week’s thread. Under those dire circumstances, and without 20/20 hindsight, it’s understandable that he permitted the sacrifice. Of course it now seems to have been tragically futile (and thus par for the course for GRRM). > [@BlackKnight](#): > > …I’m less upset at Jon’s death than I am at the fact they teased us with Benjen’s return. The bastards!.. Yeah, that was just mean. > [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > The boat is still in sight of the dock. In what scenario would it not turn around and head back?.. Jaime might realize, in his grief (or Bronn might point out to him), that no good would come of going back, confronting the Dornish prince and disturbing the fragile peace between the Crown and Dorne - and likely losing Trystane as a hostage. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …I half expected with that long lingering shot of [Jon] in the snow that we’d see his eyes turn icy blue before the black out. _Did_ his eyes change color? I couldn’t be sure - sort of looked to me like they were getting _darker_. > [@Mosier](#): > > I got the impression that the goldcloaks have pretty much lost control of the bad parts of town, and have left it to the zealots. Yes. When the Faith Militant thugs were messing up the marketplace, the goldcloaks on a nearby roof ignored the merchants’ calls for help. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/275 "2015-06-16T16:15:43Z")
So seriously… are we just like “fuck it! Book spoilers everywhere!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/276 "2015-06-16T16:19:04Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > [Brienne] had a very good reason not to kill [Stannis]. Before she swung her sword, he admitted flat-out to killing Renly with blood magic. Most of the realm knows she was with Renly when he died and understandably does not believe her story about a “shadow” killing him. This is grievously hurtful to her because she loved Renly dearly. She wants to clear her name. > > She also needs a purpose, now that Sansa doesn’t want anything to do with her. So she and Pod will be trotting around with him as a prisoner next season, I’m sure. Probably taking him to King’s Landing. Or perhaps back to Highgarden. All quite possible. I agree. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > …Powerful team building up at Marine… Psst: It’s “Meereen.” > [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > …I can understand Renly taking the chance to sieze the throne and Brienne (and 20,000 others) following him as the best of a bad bunch, but by what logic is he “rightful”? > [@Acsenray](#): > > …I think you’re taking it too literally. Brienne isn’t referring to any principled statement derived from the law of succession. Renly was the king she lived and she was loyal to so she considers him rightful… Agreed. She is an honorable person (one of the most such on the show) and it’s important to her that she have been in the Kingsguard of the rightful king, even if others might differ with his claim. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > …Jon seems very likely to be dead, but I would be flabbergasted if Sansa and Theon were. That would be the most anticlimactic thing, for them to die off camera. Or for them to just appear as corpses in a part of an episode next season. I could see one of them being seriously injured, and so they have trouble running and hiding from Ramsay. Or maybe Theon dies and Sansa has to make it on her own. Also it’s possible after killing Stannis, Brienne sees the light and then goes looking for Sansa… I agree that Theon and Sansa are certain to survive their plunge into the snowbank, although one or both might be injured. They could get a horse or horses somewhere on the battlefield and make tracks while Ramsay is dragged into a post-battle meeting with his dad, or while he deals with finding Myranda’s body (having no reason yet to suspect either Theon or Sansa for her death), or while he parties with his men after the big win over Stannis. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/277 "2015-06-16T16:20:59Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Some interesting information about that scene: > > [Game of Thrones' shocking nude scene was complicated, and expensive, to shoot | Polygon](http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/15/8782223/game-of-thrones-shocking-nude-scene-behind-the-scenes) > [@](#): > > “It’s not hard when people are screaming at you and you look like shit and you’re being f–king humiliated to figure out how that would feel,” Headey told Entertainment Weekly. “There’s a part of you that’s f–king terrified. I can’t even imagine people wanting your blood. Cersei has done wrong, but she doesn’t really deserve this.” Err…Lena. You’re taking this ‘method acting’ too far dear. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/278 "2015-06-16T16:25:45Z")
Stannis is dead, dead, dead. Some kind of wordplay or semantics is going on with Jon. Maybe he comes back like Gandalf did. Or simply doesn’t appear in season 6. I do hope that whatever he comes back as isn’t recast. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/279 "2015-06-16T16:31:47Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > The Brotherhood had a notable impact on the story in two ways: First and foremost, they were the plot device that put Arya and The Hound on the road together. And second, they were the plot device that gave Gendry to Melisandre and Stannis. Both of which needed not involve the resurrection power…so narratively, why introduce that these unimportant character have this awesome power…if its not going to be important. Having said that–Martin has made it his business to subvert narrative necessity, but I agree he usually does so once a character’s personal story is at a logical end point or leads to more story for other characters. With Jon it seems like the story is ended just as it started. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/280 "2015-06-16T16:34:51Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I usually get the allegory/metaphor stuff but I’m finding this tough. > > I can see the white walkers representing global warming or something like that, but this many-faced thing … (a) I’m not that into but (b) might be capitalism or possibly religion itself. Not every bit of storytelling is allegory - far from it. And I have no reason to think the WW represent anything other than an existential threat to the living characters we know. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I understand about Arya having trouble becoming a faceless man. She hid her sword rather than throw it away, she can’t give up her name easily. > > But what exactly happened with her turning blind? Is it a supernatural thing where she pissed off the Many-Faced God and he blinded her? Or that one of the others drugged her somehow?.. We don’t know yet. But a blind assassin (temporarily or permanently) might have certain advantages, either in training or in action. > [@Oakminster](#): > > I think she was hungry and looking for food. She mentioned it to Drogon, but he was more interested in taking a nap. Yeah, jeez, he’s been pierced with spears and then flew who knows how many miles with the heaviest load he’s ever carried. I’d say he’s earned a little shuteye. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > In some ways I could get behind this being the “Last Days of Westeros” and is the story the people in Essos tell. “Do you know there’s a land in the west, across the sea? It used to be like Essos. It had kingdoms and knights and heroes. Now it belongs to the dead…and that’s why we built dragon stone walls around our cities.” I like the cut of your jib, **PYD**. > [@Nothar](#): > > I am surprised that no one has mentioned the over-riding theme of the episode - namely that of seeking personal vengeance over duty… Ooo, good catch. I missed that entirely. > [@Morbo](#): > > At this point if I earn billions of dollars somehow I will throw money at everyone involved with this show so that the very last shot is of Ser Pounce on the throne - roll series credits. IM IN UR RED KEEP RULIN UR KINGDOM! > [@adaher](#): > > At this point, anyone from Samwell Tarly to Tyrion to Baelish to Bran could end up on the Iron Throne. > > The only thing I’m willing to predict with certainty is that if the point of the story is for there to be a winner, then it will be someone who has been with us from the beginning. Some of these story arcs have shown characters experience tremendous growth and I’d have to think it’s going somewhere. Oh, I don’t know. Maybe Fortinbras will drop by King’s Landing…? > [@alphaboi867](#): > > I’m pissed we didn’t get to see that too, but there’s always next season. Hopefully the High Sparrow is forced to acquit them through gritted teeth, and Cersei has to watch a fully clothed as Margaery get escorted by an honour guard of Goldcloaks to the Red Keep… Probably Whitecloaks. Margaery is Queen Consort, after all. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > …If instead you hook your readers into caring and rooting for a character, only to turn around and destroy him, aren’t you basically playing a nasty trick on the reader? And if you then repeat that trick, over and over, isn’t it reasonable that the reader will simply refuse to play along any longer?.. I’d be very sorry to see some beloved character die (it’d hit me hardest to have Tyrion, Brienne or Jaime snuff it), but I wouldn’t stop watching, or reading. The story’s that good. > [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > …Stannis’s story was a classic tragedy that really worked for me. I never completely rooted for him, but I understood and admired his motives, even when his actions were awful. By underlining his devotion to Shireen, and having her offer to help in any way she can, it really heightened the emotion, and when Stannis was totally and utterly defeated, I felt both empathy for him and grim satisfaction… Well said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=15)