# Game of Thrones 5.10 "Mother's Mercy" 6/14/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526 "2015-06-14T19:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/381 "2015-06-18T08:15:01Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Did anyone else think that Dany had flown all the way to Westeros before the Dothraki showed up? Based on the location, I was half expecting her to find the Hound’s dead body. > [@russian\_heel](#): > > I thought the exact same thing, and was a bit disappointed it wasn’t the case. If she landed in Westoros, it would have been an absolutely mind-blowing twist. > > Now we get ANOTHER season her, and Mormont and the other dude wandering all over Esteros with more boring dialogue until the creepy bearded guy finishes his book. Err, no… look at [this (official) map](http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130507121142/gameofthrones/images/7/7e/The_known_world_HBO.jpg). It doesn’t have a scale, yet we know the distance along the coast between Yunkai and Mereen is 163 miles, because of the 163 mile marker posts the Meereenese nailed the dead children to along their march. The distance from Meereen to the shores of Westeros is roughly 25 times that (according to Photoshop), so we’re talking 4,000+ miles. While we can’t presume to know the speed or long-distance range of her dragons, it’s pretty ludicrous to believe that they’d be able to travel 4,000 miles in what we’re led to believe is a fairly short time frame, since she didn’t die of thirst or even get all that dishevelled during the ride. Oh and by the way, the eastern continent is called _Essos_, not “Esteros”. Esteros sounds like a place where they keep hormones. Or fish. Or something. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/382 "2015-06-18T13:20:06Z")
I think Esteros is a new estrogen supplement pill. Consult with your physician. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/383 "2015-06-18T13:42:06Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Err, no… look at [this (official) map](http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130507121142/gameofthrones/images/7/7e/The_known_world_HBO.jpg). It doesn’t have a scale, yet we know the distance along the coast between Yunkai and Mereen is 163 miles, because of the 163 mile marker posts the Meereenese nailed the dead children to along their march. Are we actually sure of that? All we know is that they came across the dead slaves while on the road to Mereen and at that point they were 163 miles away. IIRC, we aren’t given enough information to tell if they found the first slave 1 mile out of Yunkai or some indeterminate point along the road. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/384 "2015-06-18T14:28:59Z")
So what will be the repercussions of Meryn Trant’s demise? Presumably nobody other than the Faceless Men knows that Arya was the perpetrator. From the perspective of others, a member of the Kings Guard was murdered under mysterious circumstances during a trip to Braavos while escorting Lord Tyrell. Perhaps Cersei will suspect the Tyrells were behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/385 "2015-06-18T14:30:37Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > You could almost argue that him pushing Lysa Arryn out the Moon Door was noble (OK, OK, “noble” might be a stretch), because she was threatening to do the same to Sansa, and he saved her life in that case. Ned was 100% self-preservation, plus his love for Catelyn made him a rival, so that’s an odd way of looking at it. Currying favor with Joffrey, also self-interest (and I don’t think he knew Joff was actually going to _kill_ her). Marrying Sansa to Ramsay, self-interest (we don’t know if he knew just how bad Ramsay is, but he did imply when he talked to him not to harm Sansa). > > I’m still not sure I fully understand why he involved himself in Joff’s murder plot, though on the surface that’s another “good deed” since I’m sure we can all agree the realm is better off without Joffrey. Though I’m sure he had his own self-interested motivations for that as well. I would never argue that he isn’t 100% out for himself but I just don’t see him as evil as some people seem to think he is. Giving Ros to Joffery for target practice was not just to curry favor. Littlefinger did it because he found out that Ros was spying on him for Varys and want to get rid of her. He totally knew what Joff intended for her. Even if he did not know about the target practice specifically, after the Ros/Daisy incident, he knew that Joff would be very rough on his toys. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/386 "2015-06-18T14:32:12Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Are we actually sure of that? All we know is that they came across the dead slaves while on the road to Mereen and at that point they were 163 miles away. IIRC, we aren’t given enough information to tell if they found the first slave 1 mile out of Yunkai or some indeterminate point along the road. Yeah. It’s certainly more than 163 miles. They didn’t step out the door and see crucified slaves. Chances are its far greater than 163 miles. It had to have been far away enough that Mereen would hear about Dany’s army approaching and also had time to march out 163 slaves and start the mile markers. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/387 "2015-06-18T15:34:38Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I actually thought about that too, and that’s more self-preservation than anything else. If you were involved in a plot to _kill the king_ that would be 100% likely to mean your head if you were found out, would you want to leave a drunken fool (literally, Ser Dontos was a known drunk - that’s how he was demoted from Knight to Fool in the first place), who knew all the details of the conspiracy, alive? Dontos’ mini-story was tragic but he absolutely had to go. I guess, but it’s not much of an argument against sociopathy that you’re only committing a given murder to prevent the discovery of your _other_ murder plots. Littlefinger’s no Ramsay Bolton or Gregor Clegane, but you wouldn’t want to be between him and anything he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/388 "2015-06-18T16:15:06Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Do we know for certain what happened to him? I’ve been thinking that he may yet surprise us. Of course, I’ve been thinking that for a few seasons now. The last we saw of him, he was facing several armed and armored knights, while armed only with the shattered remains of a training sword. His prospects were…not good. Of course, if we follow the rule that ‘if there’s no dead body, the character didn’t die’…then we may see him again. Ditto for Stannis, Theon, and Sansa, all of whom I expect are still more or less unharmed at this point. Jon is a tougher case…he’s definitely in a bad, bad way, but I’m pretty sure his story isn’t yet finished. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/389 "2015-06-18T16:31:57Z")
> [@toombs](#): > > Were you not listening during the whole speech Roose made about Ramsey’s mother? > > Here, watch it again: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u\_J40KHcIko](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_J40KHcIko) > > Roose is a lot worse than “not very nice”. > > (For the record, serial killers usually have messed up parents. Or, if not parents, someone in their formative years that is abusive or neglectful.) I have read that many serial killers (I’m thinking we’re just using that as shorthand for sadistic psychopaths)[often have had some instance of major trauma to the brain](http://citation.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/3/9/9/2/3/p399233_index.html) … something more than a simple “thwack!” If that’s so, an environment like Westeros probably spawns a lot of psychopaths. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/390 "2015-06-18T16:34:40Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > The last we saw of him, he was facing several armed and armored knights, while armed only with the shattered remains of a training sword. His prospects were…not good. > > Of course, if we follow the rule that ‘if there’s no dead body, the character didn’t die’…then we may see him again. I’d like to add that we know Trant survived the encounter, so Syrio would have needed to have vanished into thin air (even moreso than Gendry) 🆒 I think Syrio will return in the same episode that Cersei admits The Mountain looks different than he did in the tournament, or Daenrys questions Daario’s changing appearance. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/391 "2015-06-18T17:06:33Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > This is now a warning. Don’t post in this thread again on this issue unless you want more warnings. > You are free to dispute this warning in ATMB, however. I’m not going to dispute it. Go ahead : warn again, suspend, ban, I can’t really say I care. AFAIK, it’s my first warning in 14 years and 15000 posts on topics ranging from child rape to Israel policies (and even circumcision), so getting sanctioned for a careful book mention in a TV show thread isn’t going to make me feel bad or guilty. I don’t have the patience to cater to the delicate sensitivities of people who are so offended by the word book that they felt the need to report the post or to call me a jerk, nor the interest to open an umpteenth “book mention in a GOT thread” ATMB debate. I have no hard feelings towards you personnally, especially since you took the time to write me a nice message, but I feel this is just ludicrous, and at this point in my life, I can’t care enough to shut up and bend the knee to the book-triggered crowd. I can’t be bothered, sorry. It’s not like I’m going to be skinned alive or burned to death for it. If people want to have me killed on this hill, then so be it, I just don’t feel like moving from there. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/392 "2015-06-18T17:09:19Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I think Esteros is a new estrogen supplement pill. Consult with your physician. May cause such side effects as : rape, decapitation, torture, rape, poisoning, defenestration, rape, sudden appearance of crossbow bolts, and of course- rape. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/393 "2015-06-18T17:37:58Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > I guess, but it’s not much of an argument against sociopathy that you’re only committing a given murder to prevent the discovery of your _other_ murder plots. Littlefinger’s no Ramsay Bolton or Gregor Clegane, but you wouldn’t want to be between him and anything he wanted. I think there’s some conflation going on here. Ramsay and Joffrey are/were both SADISTS. They actively enjoy the suffering of others. They’re the two main sadists we’ve seen, although Meryn Trant seems to qualify, and possibly a few more minor characters (Locke? Karl Tanner? The Mountain?) Then there are bunches of characters who just don’t seem to care one way or the other if someone dies in order to further their schemes… but I’m not sure whether they count as sociopaths or just very ambitious. My two cent understanding of the way it’s normally used is that sociopaths just have no empathy at all, someone else’s suffering just doesn’t touch them; whereas a really ambitious person might care, but just not enough to override their ambition. Notable examples in this category include Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton and Littlefinger. Stannis clearly cares about his daughter’s suffering, but makes the (awful and horrifying) choice to cause it anyhow because of the importance of his mission from (literally) God. Jamie is an interesting case. I think that for years he tried to believe that he was as hardass as his father, but it seems like he is in fact haunted by some of his past actions; while at the same time resentful at the world for judging him. I think Cersei wouldn’t hesitate to order one of her enemies (say, Margaery) tortured to death, and would take great satisfaction from the accomplishing of it, but I don’t know if she’d actually get off on the actual suffering the way Joffrey would. ---
**Author:** ![F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.Pu-du-he-pa-as)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/394 "2015-06-18T17:44:48Z")
As for Littlefinger, I think his strategy is just [the Brazil Nut effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_nut_effect). Shake things up enough, and the biggest nut (him) will rise to the top. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/395 "2015-06-18T17:59:47Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Are we actually sure of that? All we know is that they came across the dead slaves while on the road to Mereen and at that point they were 163 miles away. IIRC, we aren’t given enough information to tell if they found the first slave 1 mile out of Yunkai or some indeterminate point along the road. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Yeah. It’s certainly more than 163 miles. They didn’t step out the door and see crucified slaves. Chances are its far greater than 163 miles. It had to have been far away enough that Mereen would hear about Dany’s army approaching and also had time to march out 163 slaves and start the mile markers. Eh, I don’t know about that, but the point is that Meereen is still a _very_ long way away from Westeros and it would probably not be practical to ride a dragon between them. But the Great Dothraki “Sea” begins just north of Meereen, and is vast, so a much more logical place to end up. ETA: That’s weird - when I first looked at that image it was super high res and I could zoom in on it but now it appears very tiny in my browser and I can’t zoom. Maybe it’s something weird with my browser but [here’s another high res version](http://gameofthrones.net/images/Westeros_Maps/a-game-of-thrones-world-map-westeros-essos.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/396 "2015-06-18T19:18:59Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > The last we saw of him, he was facing several armed and armored knights, while armed only with the shattered remains of a training sword. His prospects were…not good. > > Of course, if we follow the rule that ‘if there’s no dead body, the character didn’t die’…then we may see him again… I loved Syrio - one of my favorite secondary characters - and agree his prospects were bleak. The last we saw him, though, only Trant was facing him; the others were moaning on the floor and/or unconscious. In my more optimistic, even whimsical, moments I like to think that he gave Trant a hard whack upside the (helmeted) head and slipped away to fight again another day. Thus we don’t see Syrio again, but we do see Trant later unharmed - and too embarrassed to admit that a pudgy foreigner with a wooden sword got the better of him. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/397 "2015-06-18T19:35:27Z")
As Arya was running away, she and we heard Syrio scream in pain. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/398 "2015-06-18T20:12:44Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > As Arya was running away, she and we heard Syrio scream in pain. I didn’t. She ran out in the hall, and there was lots of screaming from up the stairs, and down. No way to tell who it was, but it was more than one person. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ZcjQ4rQQ8H8/hqdefault.jpg "The Last Sword Class of Syrio Forel & Arya") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcjQ4rQQ8H8&t=256) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/399 "2015-06-18T21:33:59Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’d like to add that we know Trant survived the encounter, so Syrio would have needed to have vanished into thin air (even moreso than Gendry) 🆒 Syrio actually killed Trant but knew the Lannisters would be looking for him for it. So he ended up hiding the body and wearing Trant’s face, and living his life as Trant as per assassin rules. Arya actually just killed Syrio. It’ll be revealed in ep 1 of next season. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/400 "2015-06-18T21:37:10Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Syrio actually killed Trant but knew the Lannisters would be looking for him for it. So he ended up hiding the body and wearing Trant’s face, and living his life as Trant as per assassin rules. Arya actually just killed Syrio. It’ll be revealed in ep 1 of next season. I thought we weren’t supposed to post book spoilers here? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=21)