# Game of Thrones 5.10 "Mother's Mercy" 6/14/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526 "2015-06-14T19:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/81 "2015-06-15T05:06:55Z")
And this is why I stop watching the show until my husband drags me back in again. Just arg. I will hope for Jon reincarnation of some sort. When everyone you have any investment in is dead or tortured, or both, order unimportant, what is the point of watching? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/82 "2015-06-15T05:09:12Z")
> [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > What happened to Melisandre? It looked like she didn’t just abandon the losing side; it looked like she had a major crisis of faith-- she did everything the Lord of Light told her to, and not only did Stannis’s followers abandon them in droves, the visions she saw in the flames were not what came to pass. The Lord of Light lied to her? Or, the Lord of Light showed her what she needed to know so that she would accomplish what needed to be accomplished, but Melisandre had come to see herself a leader and an emissary of the Lord of Light, and not as just one more cog in the Lord of Light’s grand plan, to be used and then discarded? All I could think about that, was the guy telling Arya that she stole a life from the MFG, and that a life had to be taken to balance the scales. So quite possible that MFG was pissed about Shireen as well. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/83 "2015-06-15T05:15:54Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > Was the ring that Dany dropped something that marks her a Khallisie? My thought was that she was dropping it as a clue for the people who would be looking for her. Such as Daario, who mentioned something about tracking while he was mocking Tyrion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/84 "2015-06-15T05:24:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Was the calvary that rode against Stannis the sellswords who abandoned his camp? And the final scene reminded me of Julius Caesar in the Roman Senate on the Ides of March. Maybe, but it didnt have to be. _et tu_, Olly? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/85 "2015-06-15T05:31:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Does no one bother to read the OP? The books do not exist for the purposes of this thread. as Captain Barbossa said: "And thirdly, the OP is more what you’d call “guidelines” than actual rules. " He just answered a question. No spoilers there. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/86 "2015-06-15T05:34:32Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > My thought was that she was dropping it as a clue for the people who would be looking for her. Such as Daario, who mentioned something about tracking while he was mocking Tyrion. Not lightly do the leaves of Lorien fall… ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/87 "2015-06-15T05:51:45Z")
Jon Snow is absolutely not coming back in any way, shape, or form. Interview with the actor (Kit Harington) confirms: [Game of Thrones star on that shocking death: ‘I’m not coming back’](http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview) > [@](#): > > **I was talking to Dan Weiss and he said Jon is really dead. But George R.R. Martin left open the possibility the character might not be dead in the books. And then that cast salary contract story came out last year and it had your name among those receiving raises for season six and an option on a seventh. So let me ask you: Is Jon really dead?** > > This is my understanding of it. I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know they’re being whacked]. And they said, “Look, you’re gone, it’s done.” And as far as the salary thing goes, that angered me when that story came out. I don’t know where it came from, but it was inaccurate in many ways. It’s going to put questions into your head and into fans’ heads that things are not what they are. Quite honestly, I have never been told the future of things in this show, but this is the one time I have. They sat me down and said, “This is how it is.” If anything in the future is not like that, then I don’t know about it – it’s only in David and Dan and George’s heads. But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/88 "2015-06-15T06:17:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think it was just Bolton-folk. > > Are you sure? Because they were laying it on pretty thick. > Also where did all those Dothraki come from? > Also, what’s the deal with Cercei? There’s obviously still a strong presence of Goldcloaks and Lannister men at arms around the Red Keep. Are they all just chillin while their queen is humiliated? I got the impression that the goldcloaks have pretty much lost control of the bad parts of town, and have left it to the zealots. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/89 "2015-06-15T06:20:05Z")
> [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > It also occurs to me that House Baratheon has effectively been wiped off the face of the earth, right? Robert is dead, Stannis is dead, and Renly is dead. Were there any other Baratheons? Who’s in charge of Dragonstone and the Baratheon kingdom now? Robert has at least one living bastard, the blacksmith guy who Davos rescued from the red priestess and Stannis. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/90 "2015-06-15T06:23:02Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Jon Snow is absolutely not coming back in any way, shape, or form. Interview with the actor (Kit Harington) confirms: > > [Game of Thrones star on that shocking death: ‘I’m not coming back’](http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview) Well, he could certainly be lying to avoid spoiling the plot for next season. If he really is just dead and not coming back, then whole swaths of the show were pretty much pointless. No way his story ends here. ---
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/91 "2015-06-15T06:32:49Z")
Wow…what an episode. Lots of thoughts/predictions: 1. Stannis is definitely dead. Firstly, from a narrative point of view it makes perfect sense. Prior to last week’s episode, the viewer could quite readily sympathise with both Stannis’ and Daenerys’ claims to the throne. A viewer might favour one over the other, but the important thing is that both Daenerys fans and Stannis fans (Stanfans?) could defend their position. By killing Shireen, Stannis basically lost any moral claim to the Iron Throne that he might have had. Benioff and Weiss have repeatedly said they’re aiming to wrap the series up in 7 seasons. If we assume that one of those seasons is going to be largely devoted to the ultimate battle against the White Walkers, it makes sense to simplify things by getting rid of Stannis. Now the show can focus on a straight-up Manichean battle between light (Daenerys) and darkness (the Walkers). Secondly, look what’s happened to Stannis in the last 2 episodes. He sacrificed his daughter to a god who clearly doesn’t favour him, his wife hanged herself, half his men deserted him and the other half were massacred, Melisandre deserted him, and even Davos probably wouldn’t spit on him now. I mean, how much more defeated can you get? What’s even the point of him? Thirdly, Brienne has been vowing to kill Stannis for three whole seasons now. There’s no way she’d give up a golden opportunity to finally do it. Fourthly, he was severely wounded and a hundred leagues away from the nearest maester so even if Brienne hadn’t turned up it would have been a tough sell to expect the audience to believe that he somehow managed to survive. Finally, he clearly didn’t want to go on living anyway. So yeah, Stannis is dead. 1. Jon definitely _isn’t_ dead. C’mon! Do you really think it’s a co-incidence that Melisandre, a Red Priestiess with the power of resurrection, turned up at Castle Black mere hours before he was attacked? I don’t care what Harington, Benioff, and Weiss say. Jon’s going to survive, and I say that as someone who isn’t a particularly big fan of the character. Besides, the show has been dropping pretty big hints all season that R+L really does = J. If that’s the case, I’d put money on Jon being the only character who _does_ survive to the end of the series. 1. Lena Headey was absolutely _brilliant_. I never thought I’d ever feel sympathy for Cersei but damned if she didn’t manage it. A terrific performance throughout. As an aside, they _did_ use a body double for that scene. According to the review I read, Headey is pregnant so she obviously wouldn’t be able to do that kind of scene. It was pretty seamless, though. Face-mapping technology has come a long way. 1. I’m not sure what the hell happened in the House of Black and White, but unless they’re going to train Arya up like DareDevil it’s a pretty safe bet that she’ll get her sight back at some point. 2. Ellaria Sand is a total cunt. 3. Yay for Reek finally showing some (figurative) balls and rescuing Sansa! I’d have preferred it if Sansa had killed Myranda herself but I guess that wouldn’t have been in keeping with the character. I imagine that what’ll happen next is that they’ll be rescued by Brienne but beyond that I have no idea. 4. Where the hell does all this leave Littlefinger? He was counting on Stannis defeating the Boltons. Is he even still in King’s Landing? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/92 "2015-06-15T06:37:10Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Well, he could certainly be lying to avoid spoiling the plot for next season. > > If he really is just dead and not coming back, then whole swaths of the show were pretty much pointless. No way his story ends here. If you read the whole interview, they touch on that too: > [@](#): > > \*\*The Night’s Watch mutiny is definitely justified by the story. But we’ve also see his character grow and evolve as a leader over all these years and so it also just feels like all of that growth should pay off for something greater – more than the other characters we’ve seen die on the show. Obviously he’s accomplished plenty during his time at the Night’s Watch, bu there’s a feeling of, “that’s not what’s supposed to happen, he was destined for greater things.” \*\* > > Yeah, but we have to go by what _Thrones_ does. And _Thrones_ treats drama as real life. And people die and don’t accomplish what we think they’re meant to in real life. And I think that’s one of the powerful things about _Thrones_. The major loss with Jon’s through-line is he never finds out who his mother is and that’s the heartbreaking thing for me. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/93 "2015-06-15T06:49:31Z")
Although I guess it could be in his contract to lie about it too… I was trying to find more info on the season 6 / season 7 actor contract story that was alluded to in that one and could only find this: [‘Game of Thrones’ Cast Signs for Season 7 with Big Raises (Exclusive)](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-cast-signs-season-744314) > [@](#): > > Of course, when an actor signs on for seven seasons of Game of Thrones it doesn’t mean his or her character will live that long. Thrones is notorious for killing off characters, and Martin is still finishing the book series on which the show is based, which means the stars could lose their jobs — and their new paychecks — before a seventh season. Kinda curious how that works TBH… so in their contract there’s some kind of legalese version of the clause “You’ll be paid X per episode for up to 7 seasons - until we decide to kill off your character.”? I kinda feel like they’d get to know in advance how long their contract lasts but who knows. Maybe he comes back as a White Walker and leads their army against the Wall. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/94 "2015-06-15T07:05:44Z")
Am I the only one that thinks both Theon and Sansa went SPLAT! and died when they jumped the wall together? That was a long fall, and even if that was deep powdered snow, I think serious injury leading to death was likely… Stannis is dead. Jon sure looks dead. Myrcella (however you spell it) is dead. That religious cult is about to be deader than Hell. No way Cersei isn’t going to take revenge. The Sand Snakes are all going to be dead probably by execution. I’m probably wrong, but I thought the ring Dany dropped was one given by her fiancee, and I think she’s gonna play the Kahlessi card and get her some new Dothraki cavalry. Overall, a pretty epic season finale. Yeah, it could “break the internet”. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/95 "2015-06-15T07:13:51Z")
> [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > It also occurs to me that House Baratheon has effectively been wiped off the face of the earth, right? Robert is dead, Stannis is dead, and Renly is dead. Were there any other Baratheons? Well there’s Tommen Baratheon… sure _we_ know he isn’t Robert’s son, and the rumors have been spread, but most of the realm still accepts him as the rightful heir (even if they secretly believe otherwise). ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/96 "2015-06-15T07:17:29Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Big props to Lena Headey for baring it all for “The Passion of the Cersei.” As much as I hate the character, that was tough to watch. I was thinking the same thing. She’s a fairly well established actress at this point, and could have easily demanded she wear a tunic and the scene would have been pretty good; she committed and it made the scene not only one of the most memorable in the series, but also the most disturbing. Plus it went on FOREVER. You found yourself rooting for her to hopefully find extra stores of wildfire and wipe out the city next season. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/97 "2015-06-15T07:19:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Am I the only one that thinks both Theon and Sansa went SPLAT! and died when they jumped the wall together? That was a long fall, and even if that was deep powdered snow, I think serious injury leading to death was likely… Theoretically both characters would have every cause to commit suicide, my guess is they landed in snow, or in a frozen moat. The only drawback to their plan of course is that if they survived clever Ramsey Bolton will just follow their footprints. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/98 "2015-06-15T07:25:59Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I was thinking the same thing. She’s a fairly well established actress at this point, and could have easily demanded she wear a tunic and the scene would have been pretty good; she committed and it made the scene not only one of the most memorable in the series, but also the most disturbing. Plus it went on FOREVER. > > You found yourself rooting for her to hopefully find extra stores of wildfire and wipe out the city next season. CGIed face on a body double folks. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/99 "2015-06-15T07:26:16Z")
You know what would be realistic too? Dany slipping off that mountain and cracking her skull open, very real and possible! But narratively pointless, what then was the point of her plot? Narrative has to have a purpose and a point, we can argue about realism all day but if it doesn’t have a point you might as well watch random balls bouncing off each other in a bingo machine. Did anyone get the feeling ALL of Kings Landing will regret Cersei’s walk? Especially if both kids left die, I could see her at this point going well reign of terror. Remember she has no problem manipulating Tommen. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526/100 "2015-06-15T07:29:02Z")
Soooo…there’s a fairly high capacity naval transport force just floating around the Wall somewhere that Stannis won’t be needing anymore. Dany has an army…and maybe some new cavalry as well…but needs a way to cross the sea. Hmmmm. Wonder if the Boltons were softened up enough for Littlefinger to take them out now? The guy’s a rat bastard, but he may be the one that ends up with the Iron Throne after all… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-10-mothers-mercy-6-14-15-show-discussion/722526.md?page=6)