# Game of Thrones 6.01 "The Red Woman" 4/24/2016 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950 "2016-04-23T21:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/61 "2016-04-25T16:55:23Z")
A great way to start the GOT season, I thought. Bad craziness in Dorne - very surprising to me to have both Prince Doran and Trystane snuff it within minutes of each other. And a spearpoint out of the face - yikes. And the reveal of the Red Priestess in her chambers at the end… whoa, didn’t see _that_ coming! > [@Shakester](#): > > [Trystane] was painting an eye stone, same as the ones we saw on Tywin at his funeral last season. It’s a pretty safe assumption he was making it for Myrcella’s funeral. > > That, to me, means he was still on the ship that carried [Jaime] et al to King’s Landing. In protective custody AKA as a hostage. > > The Sand Snakes presumably followed them there in a boat of their own, snuck on board, silently ninja-assassinated everyone else on board, yada yada yada. Agreed on all that, but maybe the two Sand Snakes just stowed away, or were secretly allowed aboard by sympathetic crew? They weren’t there on the dock when Myrcella got her fatal kiss, were they? > [@nate](#): > > So what was with the intentional shots of guys staring at Jon Snow’s blood? Or touching his blood and getting a quizzical look on their faces? I’m color blind, was his blood a different color than normal or something? > [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > I wondered that too. I paused on the blood and tried to Rorschach analyze it and all I could figure is that maybe… if you squint… it could sorta resemble a 3-headed dragon. The Targaryen symbol? I thought it might kinda be a dragon shape, too, but couldn’t be sure. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > …Loved how Brienne and Pod rode to the rescue, I was wondering how Sansa and Theon were going to get out of that pickle. The swearing of the oaths was a nice touch. > > …The scene with Cersei and Jamie surprised me. I expected Cersei to be furious at Jamie, accuse him of failing her, and push him away even more. Cersei is rapidly running out of things to live for. Very interested to see where this arc goes… Loved the oath-swearing scene, too. Theon’s little nod to Sansa to accept Brienne’s offer, Pod’s gentle prompting with the “meat and mead” line, Brienne’s look of satisfaction - great stuff. I agree about Cersei’s reaction. I guess she’s just kind of shell-shocked and also resigned to the old prophecy playing out; she can’t bring herself to blame Jaime (and also knows she needs him now more than ever). > [@Quimby](#): > > …I also wondered what happened to the dogs but I assume either Pod or Brienne killed them. > > …Dany should be nicknamed Yo-Yo since she has gone from Slave to Queen to Slave to Queen to Slave like a half dozen times… Yeah, the dogs seemed like an oversight by the production team. We never see them either killed or running away. Dany’s scene with Khal Moro was fun. I liked the banter between the khal and his men about the best, er, _five_ best things in the world. Good to hear “It is known” again, too. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/62 "2016-04-25T17:05:17Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Dany’s scene with Khal Moro was fun. I liked the banter between the khal and his men about the best, er, _five_ best things in the world. Good to hear “It is known” again, too. Not to mention “Ever fucked a woman with white hair before?” “not since your grandmother”, which was one of the best lines on the show. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/63 "2016-04-25T17:10:45Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The snows actually did melt at Shireen’s sacrifice. Perhaps their god isn’t omnipotent - he could give them the melt, but not control the minds of his followers, so while his goal was achieved, he lost too much in the process anyway. The men who deserted after that weren’t necessarily followers of the LoL at all, they were the sellswords. Mel thought that burning Shireen would break the thaw, and she was right about that. What she was wrong about all along was seeing eventual victory for Stannis. Although for instance some of her visions were of Bolton banners burning, that may still come to pass. > [@oft wears hats](#): > > I hate the Sands so much. I can’t tell whether they’re just using Oberyn’s death as an excuse to justify going to war with King’s Landing, or if they’re just massive idiots who don’t understand that Oberyn would be spinning in his grave over all the horrible things they’ve done in his name. I’m not sure what distinction you’re making. I think the straightforward viewing is the correct one. They’re children who don’t understand the real cost of war, they want to get revenge, they see Doran’s wisdom as cowardice and weakness. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/64 "2016-04-25T17:11:04Z")
The scene in the previous episode (last one of the previous season), I assumed the Dothraki recognized her as a queen when they came across her in that field. And the oath-swearing was interesting, in that Sansa was unfamiliar with the customs, but Podrick, Theon and Brienne are. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/65 "2016-04-25T17:20:56Z")
Sansa wasn’t unfamiliar, since clearly she knew the rest of it, she was just stressed and freezing. Being that cold fucks you up, it was a nice touch. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/66 "2016-04-25T17:21:57Z")
Is the old woman Melisandre’s true form or do you think it’s part of some kind of magic she is preparing to do? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/67 "2016-04-25T17:22:53Z")
I’m guessing it’s her true form. Edited to add, perhaps the aging is due to her use of magic? ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/68 "2016-04-25T17:23:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Agreed on all that, but maybe the two Sand Snakes just stowed away, or were secretly allowed aboard by sympathetic crew? They weren’t there on the dock when Myrcella got her fatal kiss, were they? All three Sand Snakes were on the dock with Ellaria after Myrcella’s boat left. I’m assuming they followed soon after in another boat and slipped on board Jaime’s ship while it was at anchor near King’s Landing. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/69 "2016-04-25T17:27:09Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > All three Sand Snakes were on the dock with Ellaria after Myrcella’s boat left. I’m assuming they followed soon after in another boat and slipped on board Jaime’s ship while it was at anchor near King’s Landing. Yeah, the whole point was to start a war, so killing yet another Dorne prince in King’s Landing pretty much guarantees it. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/70 "2016-04-25T17:48:42Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > … > > I’m not sure what distinction you’re making. I think the straightforward viewing is the correct one. They’re children who don’t understand the real cost of war, they want to get revenge, they see Doran’s wisdom as cowardice and weakness. They keep banging on about how much they loved Oberyn and want to avenge his murder. But then they do horrible things to further this goal, things that Oberyn would never stand for. The distinction I’m making is whether they really mean that (i.e. being idiots who are unintentionally spitting on Oberyn’s memory), or whether they just want to go to war and are using Oberyn’s death as pretense to do that (i.e. don’t care that Oberyn would hate what they’re doing, or at least don’t care nearly as much as they do about starting a war). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/71 "2016-04-25T17:53:54Z")
I think it’s the former, but it’s more unhinged than stupid. Overcome with rage. At least in Ellaria’s case. The turtles might just be stupid and/or prone to the most violent course of action at all times. I think, in their view, they’re definitely doing it for Oberyn, they’re just not stopping to think about what he’d think about that. I don’t think it’s a pretense. We were cheated out of a scene of the aftermath of Myrcella’s death where Jaime has to figure out how he’s going to approach this whole Dornish ship/dead princess/Trystane thing. It would explain better where Trystane was and how the turtles got to him, it might make it feel like more of a gut punch because Jaime would say to Trystane “I know you’re a good man, and had nothing to do with this, but Cersei will want revenge, I’m going to keep you safe on this boat until we figure this out, I promise” and then have his protection rendered moot. Leaving out a scene like that makes the whole thing feel rushed. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/72 "2016-04-25T18:07:08Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Actually, Davos et al are genuinely screwed if Jon stays dead. Davos was sworn knight to Stannis – but that entire house is gone. Ser Davos is basically a hedge knight at this point, and I’ve got to think being a hedge night way up at the wall at the start of a WINTER is not a good position. Going by transit times even in good weather it must be a couple hundred to reach a potentially friendly castle. I mean, I can’t see him wanting to swear to the Boltons, do you? > > And it’s worse for the others – as members of the Night Watch just going away isn’t an option. All they can do is hold out and hope Ed gets back with some wildlings that feel they owed Jon Snow AND that it’s pretty much only the stabbers themselves that will stick to Thorne when it comes down to a fight. My assumption is whatever happens Davos will take the black. He has nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/73 "2016-04-25T18:32:06Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Just a nit-pick, that wasn’t wax, it was molten gold. Funny, I was referring to The whore dripping wax on him in the bathtub, I forgot about the golden crown and Dany even said something about him being not true dragon at the time. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > My assumption is whatever happens Davos will take the black. He has nothing else. He would be perfect on the wall with his skill set. ---
**Author:** ![MegaNazz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@MegaNazz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaNazz)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/74 "2016-04-25T18:42:12Z")
The Sand Snakes often cite the rape/murder of a family member at the hands of the Mountain under the watch of the Lannisters. The death of Oberyn may have been a catalyst but, in their eyes, they’ve been wronged by the Lannisters over and over again. Oberyn hated the Lannisters too. I think that his death has allowed the Sand Snakes to justify drastic measures to insure the Lannisters are wiped out. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/75 "2016-04-25T19:07:33Z")
Yeah, that entire family has wanted to wipe out the Lannister family for a while now. The gimp prince was the only one who wasn’t eager for war. Regarding the confusing sand snakes on a boat logistics, late in the episode, after Jaime gets back and before the sand snakes kill the prince, we see a second scene of a boat in the harbor at King’s Landing. That could have meant either the sand snakes were arriving, or the widower prince was sailing back to Dorn. > [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > I think Melisandre is still going to cause the resurrection of Jon Snow, just not in the way that everyone expected-- she says the words over his corpse and he comes back to life, a la Thoros of Myr. Instead, I think it’s going to happen in the “only death can pay for life” activation of the latent magic in this world that we’ve seen for e.g. Daenerys and the dragons. Melisandre loses her faith and takes off the collar that magically keeps her young, and she curls up in bed and rapidly ages to death. Her death then causes Jon Snow to come back to life. This sort of transfer doesn’t have to be conscious or intentional. For instance, it’s made pretty clear that Ned killing Lady is what caused Bran to wake up, and it’s not like Ned would have known to do that on purpose. While first reading this paragraph, the moment I read “only death can pay for life” I immediately thought of Ghost as the sacrifice. Then you finished the paragraph citing a possible example of one of the dire wolves paying for Bran’s life. So don’t rule out Ghost. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/76 "2016-04-25T19:23:40Z")
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Jon wargs into Ghost while his human corpse is still cooling. > [@Tangent](#): > > All three Sand Snakes were on the dock with Ellaria after Myrcella’s boat left. I’m assuming they followed soon after in another boat and slipped on board Jaime’s ship while it was at anchor near King’s Landing. Thanks. I didn’t remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/77 "2016-04-25T19:49:36Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I also wouldn’t be surprised if Jon wargs into Ghost while his human corpse is still cooling. Was warging something that Jon was capable of? I thought that was only Bran who could do that. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/78 "2016-04-25T19:54:01Z")
I didn’t think the sandsnakes that killed the prince on the boat were the same ones on the dock at the end of last season. I assumed they were just part of the entourage but I could very well be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/79 "2016-04-25T19:57:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Was warging something that Jon was capable of? I thought that was only Bran who could do that. In show, only Bran is shown as a warg…other than the few wildlings that is. > [@Quimby](#): > > I didn’t think the sandsnakes that killed the prince on the boat were the same ones on the dock at the end of last season. I assumed they were just part of the entourage but I could very well be wrong. There’s only three established Sand Snakes on the show. The three on the dock at the end of last season appeared in last night’s episode. The youngest “Bad Pussy” was the one that shanked the elder Prince’s body guard in the back and is still in Dorne. The other two, Whip and Spear, killed the young prince on the boat. It was just weird that they just appeared on the boat with no actual explanation. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/80 "2016-04-25T20:22:23Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I’m not 100% sure, but those dogs looked like bloodhounds. IF I’m right, well, bloodhounds are the best trackers in the world but they’d be useless in a fight because they’re too gentle and good-natured. > > Bloodhounds SOUND terrifying when they’re barking, baying and howling while following a scent. But I’ve heard prison guards saying, “When n we catch up to the dogs, lots of times we’ll find them lying on the ground around the fugitive, while he pets them or gives them tummy rubs.” Very tangential to the ongoing discussion but I wanted to answer this. Even dogs that are gentle by breed characteristic can be vicious by training and handling. The very good book called “Pit Bull Placebo” describes how in the USA slave-holding days, escaping slaves were terrified of being caught by bloodhounds because they were often almost torn apart. Because of that, bloodhounds were the first breed in the USA to earn the reputation as being dangerous dogs. I think this stands in the show. There was the one scene where they hunted a woman (ex girlfriend?) and he (I forgot his name, the sadistic creep who married Sansa) forced Theon to watch the dogs eat her alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950.md?page=5)