# Game of Thrones 6.01 "The Red Woman" 4/24/2016 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950 "2016-04-23T21:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/81 "2016-04-25T20:26:27Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Regarding the confusing sand snakes on a boat logistics, late in the episode, after Jaime gets back and before the sand snakes kill the prince, we see a second scene of a boat in the harbor at King’s Landing. That could have meant either the sand snakes were arriving, or the widower prince was sailing back to Dorn. It really made no sense for the ship to even go to King’s Landing after Myrcella died. It was a Dornish ship, not under Jamie’s command. Based on Bronn’s experience with the poison, it would have taken effect no more than a few hours after contact, when the ship wasn’t far out of port. With Myrcella dead, there was no point for the ship to continue on. Logically it should have returned immediately to Dorne with Trystane, since with the marriage off there was no reason for him to go. The Dornish might then have given Jamie a ship to return Myrcella’s body as a courtesy. However, with Trystane in King’s Landing, it wouldn’t make much sense to let him go back to Dorne considering his value as a hostage in the upcoming war. (Certainly everyone will assume that Myrcella’s poisoning was a Dornish plot, which it was.) Those scenes definitely needed more explanation of what exactly was supposed to be going on. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/82 "2016-04-25T20:39:44Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The men who deserted after that weren’t necessarily followers of the LoL at all, they were the sellswords. Mel thought that burning Shireen would break the thaw, and she was right about that. What she was wrong about all along was seeing eventual victory for Stannis. Although for instance some of her visions were of Bolton banners burning, that may still come to pass. The Lord of Light’s objectives may not be the same as those who request his help. It has not been apparent that the Lord of Light will simply grant the wishes of his followers in return for a particular sacrifice (and this has now been confirmed). Melisandre may just be doing things she believes will please the Lord of Light. The Lord of Light may grant part of the request - the destruction of the Boltons - but not at the hands of Stannis. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/83 "2016-04-25T20:48:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It really made no sense for the ship to even go to King’s Landing after Myrcella died. It was a Dornish ship, not under Jamie’s command. Based on Bronn’s experience with the poison, it would have taken effect no more than a few hours after contact, when the ship wasn’t far out of port. With Myrcella dead, there was no point for the ship to continue on. Logically it should have returned immediately to Dorne with Trystane, since with the marriage off there was no reason for him to go. The Dornish might then have given Jamie a ship to return Myrcella’s body as a courtesy. > > However, with Trystane in King’s Landing, it wouldn’t make much sense to let him go back to Dorne considering his value as a hostage in the upcoming war. (Certainly everyone will assume that Myrcella’s poisoning was a Dornish plot, which it was.) > > Those scenes definitely needed more explanation of what exactly was supposed to be going on. I don’t think Jamie would have considered it a good idea to go back to Dorne without an army at his back. Or even to return Trystane. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/84 "2016-04-25T20:49:30Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > Very tangential to the ongoing discussion but I wanted to answer this. Even dogs that are gentle by breed characteristic can be vicious by training and handling. The very good book called “Pit Bull Placebo” describes how in the USA slave-holding days, escaping slaves were terrified of being caught by bloodhounds because they were often almost torn apart. Because of that, bloodhounds were the first breed in the USA to earn the reputation as being dangerous dogs. > > I think this stands in the show. There was the one scene where they hunted a woman (ex girlfriend?) and he (I forgot his name, the sadistic creep who married Sansa) forced Theon to watch the dogs eat her alive. Why assume that bloodhounds are the only kind of dogs in the kennels? Sansa needed to be captured alive and unharmed, that was made excruciatingly clear, so they used tracking dogs (and only a couple of them) to hunt her and Reek down. Back at the kennels, though, I bet there are a shitload of really nasty beasts, the kind you send out NOT on a leash to kill the hell out of whatever or whoever it is you’re tracking and I’m betting they ain’t no kind of bloodhound. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/85 "2016-04-25T20:55:36Z")
Was there any significance to the square coin Arya was given? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/86 "2016-04-25T20:58:12Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t think Jamie would have considered it a good idea to go back to Dorne without an army at his back. Or even to return Trystane. My point is that it was a Dornish ship, and not under Jamie’s command. The decision of what to do upon Myrcella’s death would have been up to the Dornish captain, not Jamie. With only Bronn at his side, Jamie could not have prevented him from turning around, as he surely would have done to protect Trystane. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/87 "2016-04-25T21:02:18Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Why assume that bloodhounds are the only kind of dogs in the kennels? Sansa needed to be captured alive and unharmed, that was made excruciatingly clear, so they used tracking dogs (and only a couple of them) to hunt her and Reek down. Back at the kennels, though, I bet there are a shitload of really nasty beasts, the kind you send out NOT on a leash to kill the hell out of whatever or whoever it is you’re tracking and I’m betting they ain’t no kind of bloodhound. Maybe, maybe not, but you have a good point that we only have Theon’s possibly imperfect assessment (“those must be the dogs that tear people apart!”) to go on. Personally, I’m satisfied that they were held at bay by their handlers until the fight started, but then found themselves free and ran off. It’s one thing to tear into defenseless victims when urged on by your abusive handlers; it’s another thing when a big fight breaks out, your handlers are surprised and scared, there’s random heavy hoof steps all around, and their leashes are free. Fine, they skedaddled. It’s all a really minor point from some minor production clumsiness anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/88 "2016-04-25T21:03:11Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > Was there any significance to the square coin Arya was given? It’s an iron coin of Braavos, the same kind as Arya was given by Jaqen as a token. I’m not sure of the significance, since presumably everyone in Braavos uses such coins. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/89 "2016-04-25T21:13:22Z")
I’m almost assuming that Cersei’s Frankenguard isn’t The Mountain since that would have to be the worst kept secret ever. (Hmm- this dead colored and masked 8 foot tall brute appeared just after we gave the not-a-Maester the 8 foot tall body of the Mountain to dispose of, isn’t that a coincidence?) I do hope we get to see some sort of showdown twixt him and his equally not-seen-in-a-grave-or-burned brother The Hound. Most of the magic is imperfect in the series. I wonder if Daenerys might actually be able to have another child; the only word we have that she can’t is from the witch who cursed Khal Drogo. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/90 "2016-04-25T21:22:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s an iron coin of Braavos, the same kind as Arya was given by Jaqen as a token. > > I’m not sure of the significance, since presumably everyone in Braavos uses such coins. The coin that Jaqen gave Arya wasn’t square. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/91 "2016-04-25T21:27:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The Lord of Light’s objectives may not be the same as those who request his help. It has not been apparent that the Lord of Light will simply grant the wishes of his followers in return for a particular sacrifice (and this has now been confirmed). Melisandre may just be doing things she believes will please the Lord of Light. The Lord of Light may grant part of the request - the destruction of the Boltons - but not at the hands of Stannis. We know very little. We certainly don’t know that the Lord of Light actually exists. But we have three times now seen Melisandre perform blood magic asking for a specific boon (sex to make shadow baby to kill Renly; burn leeches to kill Robb, Joffrey, Balon Greyjoy; sacrifice Shireen to cause a thaw). So far she’s 2 2/3 out of 3. I thought it was pretty clear that the sacrifice of Shireen was not beseeching victory, it was just breaking the frost so they could continue to advance on the castle. I actually think that the mercenaries all abandoning at that point was was didn’t make any sense. Sure, to our modern eyes, particularly modern eyes that know that magic doesn’t work, someone burning his own daughter to ask for a change in the weather seems both monstrous and clearly insane. But look at it from the perspective of someone who (a) is a mercenary, and (b) lives in a world where blood magic actually works. You’re stuck out in the wilderness, it’s super cold, most of your supplies are gone, and you are being paid to follow someone who is so dedicated to victory that he is willing to sacrifice his own daughter to bring a thaw… and it works! Why would you not continue to take that guy’s coin? Why would you instead just wander off into the middle of the trackless north, where you presumably have no friends and nowhere in particular to go, running very low on supplies? Presumably all of those guys who abandoned him are going to freeze to death the moment the weather turns cold again. It makes sense that Stannis burning his daughter in a super-extreme situation loses him the respect of his wife, or Davos, or even himself. But it losing him his army is about the only thing that does not make sense. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/92 "2016-04-25T21:29:30Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m almost assuming that Cersei’s Frankenguard isn’t The Mountain since that would have to be the worst kept secret ever. (Hmm- this dead colored and masked 8 foot tall brute appeared just after we gave the not-a-Maester the 8 foot tall body of the Mountain to dispose of, isn’t that a coincidence?) I don’t know how many people know that Qyburn got possession of the Mountain after he “died”. There’s no reason to think that’s public knowledge. And to a certain extent, it only helps her if people have all heard rumors that that super tall scary guy is even scarier. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/93 "2016-04-25T21:45:04Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The coin that Jaqen gave Arya wasn’t square. You’re right. The square one was just a regular Braavosi coin then. But wasn’t there a round coin in the bowl too? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/94 "2016-04-25T21:48:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You’re right. The square one was just a regular Braavosi coin then. > > But wasn’t there a round coin in the bowl too? I definitely noticed that. But I’m very skeptical that it means anything at all other than “there are different kinds of coin in use”. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/95 "2016-04-25T22:25:40Z")
Does the Red Woman go to bed real early? Seems that way. It was not even dark yet because they gave Davos until dark to decide to leave without being killed. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/96 "2016-04-25T22:32:28Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Does the Red Woman go to bed real early? Seems that way. It was not even dark yet because they gave Davos until dark to decide to leave without being killed. I don’t think she was thinking about the time of day. She looked to have other things weighting heavily on her mind. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/97 "2016-04-25T22:34:10Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Dany’s scene with Khal Moro was fun. I liked the banter between the khal and his men about the best, er, _five_ best things in the world. I found it a bit grating, to be honest; almost Pythonesque in a way. That’s not to say it wasn’t funny, though, just that when I see the Dothraki on their horses, I don’t really think ‘comedy troupe’. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/98 "2016-04-25T22:37:15Z")
Gotta say, Ser Alister can make a speech. Declan ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/99 "2016-04-25T22:44:49Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I found it a bit grating, to be honest; almost Pythonesque in a way. That’s not to say it wasn’t funny, though, just that when I see the Dothraki on their horses, I don’t really think ‘comedy troupe’. I agree. It was a great joke, but it felt more of a “Tyrion/Varys” scene. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/100 "2016-04-25T22:47:29Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The Lord of Light’s objectives may not be the same as those who request his help. It has not been apparent that the Lord of Light will simply grant the wishes of his followers in return for a particular sacrifice (and this has now been confirmed). Melisandre may just be doing things she believes will please the Lord of Light. The Lord of Light may grant part of the request - the destruction of the Boltons - but not at the hands of Stannis. Or the red woman knew exactly what she was doing. After all, she deserted _before_ the battle, not after the defeat. So I would guess she didn’t expect a victory or she would have stayed by Stannis’ side. And what she was extremely successful at doing was getting rid of all the Baratheon lineage (except for Gendry, and it’s not because she didn’t try), possibly to make room for another claimant, like Jon snow. Maybe she only needed Stannis to rescue Jon from the widling assault, and then made sure to dispose of him and his daughter. Regarding the dogs : I would bet that the producer just didn’t want to upset the viewers by showing dogs being killed (especially by a “good” character like Brienne). It seems to me that a lot of people are more bothered by the onscreen death of dogs than of humans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950.md?page=6)