# Game of Thrones 6.01 "The Red Woman" 4/24/2016 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950 "2016-04-23T21:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/101 "2016-04-25T22:53:53Z")
I don’t think this show cares very much about upsetting people while showing terrible things happening. They killed Sansa’s dog and he was innocent of anything, as dogs go. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/102 "2016-04-25T23:06:05Z")
When Myrcella started bleeding, wouldn’t Jaime have called on Bronn and Trystane? They both would have known the type of poison that was being used. At least Bronn would have known that there’s an antidote. The timing makes no sense. Unless Bronn was in on it, which would have been totally out of character. But nothing on GOT should surprise us. It’s conceivable that Jaime and Bronn decided not to tell the ship’s captain about it once she died, since that would have jeopardized their lives. And maybe they waited to tell Trystane until much later. But I would think that Bronn would have mentioned the antidote and they both would have desperately asked everyone on the boat, including Trystane, about an antidote. I didn’t realize that Trystane was killed in King’s Landing. How did the Sand Snakes get there? By the way, isn’t Sand Snakes as a nickname very generic and unoriginal for a group from Dorne? It’s a land of beaches and sand and there is a serpent on the Kingdom’s flag. Also, why is their leader a Prince and not a King? I thought Dorne was the one kingdom that maintained its independence from the others. Anyway, it would be great if someone could create a reasonable timeline of the events surrounding Myrcella’s death. Also, when the Prince was killed, he just received the note about Myrcella’s death, from King’s Landing presumably. The delivery of the note must have been planned by Ellaria. She would have had no idea when a raven with the news would come. But they still killed the messenger who would have had to be in on it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/103 "2016-04-25T23:11:06Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > isn’t Sand Snakes as a nickname very generic and unoriginal for a group from Dorne? It’s a land of beaches and sand and there is a serpent on the Kingdom’s flag. Sand is the bastard name for Dorne, they are all daughters of the Red Viper. It’s actually fairly clever. Also their flag is a sun with a spear through it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/104 "2016-04-25T23:34:44Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > When Myrcella started bleeding, wouldn’t Jaime have called on Bronn and Trystane? They both would have known the type of poison that was being used. At least Bronn would have known that there’s an antidote. The timing makes no sense. Unless Bronn was in on it, which would have been totally out of character. But nothing on GOT should surprise us. What? She died in like 40 seconds. What were they supposed to do? It’s probably not the same poison anyway - obviously the one Bronn was afflicted with was much slower acting with none of the same symptoms. Why in the world would you consider that Bronn is in on it is more plausible than “Jaime didn’t manage to save his daughter from an unknown death that took under a minute”? > [@](#): > > Also, when the Prince was killed, he just received the note about Myrcella’s death, from King’s Landing presumably. The delivery of the note must have been planned by Ellaria. She would have had no idea when a raven with the news would come. But they still killed the messenger who would have had to be in on it. It’s just a dramatic coincidence. They were going to kill him anyway, whether he received the note or not. Their plan wasn’t dependent on it. The arrival of the note just made them take action immediately. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/105 "2016-04-25T23:49:50Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Or the red woman knew exactly what she was doing. After all, she deserted _before_ the battle, not after the defeat. So I would guess she didn’t expect a victory or she would have stayed by Stannis’ side. > > And what she was extremely successful at doing was getting rid of all the Baratheon lineage (except for Gendry, and it’s not because she didn’t try), possibly to make room for another claimant, like Jon snow. Maybe she only needed Stannis to rescue Jon from the widling assault, and then made sure to dispose of him and his daughter. Yes, that’s possible. I think there are two plausible possibilities about Melisandre: (1) She’s always been a true believer, honestly believed everything she told Stannis, until she realized at the last moment that there was no conceivable way Stannis would possibly win the battle, had a crisis of faith, and basically fled to save her own skin (2) She may or may not be a true believer in anything, but lied and manipulated Stannis for her own purposes to his eventual demise, which was her purpose all along I think (1) is both more interesting and more likely, and I think it fits with everything we’ve seen. But (2) is certainly possible. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/106 "2016-04-26T00:05:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What? She died in like 40 seconds. What were they supposed to do? It’s probably not the same poison anyway - obviously the one Bronn was afflicted with was much slower acting with none of the same symptoms. I guess I’m using the modern experience, but people don’t normally drop dead immediately. There’s usually a chance to save them. Plus, Jaime wouldn’t have known for sure that it was poison. > [@](#): > > Why in the world would you consider that Bronn is in on it is more plausible than “Jaime didn’t manage to save his daughter from an unknown death that took under a minute”? I drafted the reply and then moved some sentences around so that one ended up in the wrong place. That was meant with respect to the Sand Snakes getting on the boat. How? I wasn’t saying Bronn’s helping them was plausible. Just that it’s not impossible when considering the motivations of most of the characters. I guess the ship’s crew could have been in on it. Now that I think about it, it was a plot flaw to have the Sand Snakes on the dock at the end of the last season. If it was just Ellaria on the dock, the story would make much more sense. Then we could assume that they were already hiding in the boat before Jaime, Myrcella and Bronn got in. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/107 "2016-04-26T00:19:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > …The cabin scene was kind of confusing. I guess Jaime left him on the boat to protect him from Cersei’s wrath?.. That conversation would funny to watch. An enraged Cersei threatens to kill Trystane, only to be told he’s already dead. Then she order’s his corpse be send back to Prince Doran, only to be told he’s already dead. _Then_ she demands more wine, only to be told she’s already bathing in a giant vat of wine. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > …Are the Sparrows going to try Loras and Margaery? I thought they said something about a formal trial when they arrested them. But the High Sparrow was pretty dodgy about Loras’ condition, and I’m worried that they considered his crime severe enough to warrant harsher treatment, or even execution. Yes, they’re yet to be tried. The High Septon can’t just summarily execute them and maintain his credibility. Plus he made a big deal to Cersei about how they’re be judged by the Faith (ie himself & a panel of septons & septas), and the trial is sure to go smoother if they’ve already confessed (plus he genuinely believes confession is the only way to save their souls). I’m sure Loras got the same vague answers when he asked about Margaery. It’s not clear what kind of punishment they’re actually facing. Cersei’s punishment for incest & fornication was the Walk of Shame, but she didn’t confess to the adultery/treason & his still facing a death sentence over that (& she’s opted for trial by combat). I doubt Margaery is facing death, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Faith views buggery as worthy of dead. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > Why assume that bloodhounds are the only kind of dogs in the kennels? Sansa needed to be captured alive and unharmed, that was made excruciatingly clear,… Yeah, Papa Bolton sure is displeased that Ramsey tried playing his games with Sansa. :rolleyes: Ramsey really couldn’t wait until after the heir & spare came along. > [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > …Also, why is their leader a Prince and not a King? I thought Dorne was the one kingdom that maintained its independence from the others… Dorne wasn’t conquered by the Targaryens; they joined the other Six Kingdoms later through a marriage alliance. That’s why they have more autonomy, and are led by a Prince and not a Lord Paramount. House Martell has been in a cold war with House Baratheon ever since the Mad King was overthrown. ---
**Author:** ![SacFly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@SacFly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SacFly)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/108 "2016-04-26T00:23:02Z")
The arrival of the note had nothing to do with the story. It was just setting up the viewer for a gotcha moment. It might make your heart beat faster for a moment, but it’s pretty weak storytelling. The whole Dorne arc has been terribly written and poorly acted. They could have just cut everything after the Oberyn/Mountain fight and the series would have been better off. I actually thought this week’s Dorne installment was better than usual, due to its brevity. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/109 "2016-04-26T00:29:58Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Does the Red Woman go to bed real early? Seems that way. It was not even dark yet because they gave Davos until dark to decide to leave without being killed. Old people tend to go to bed early. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/110 "2016-04-26T00:31:41Z")
I was about to post about a possible upcoming event at castle Black but I’m not sure of the preview at the end of the episode is considered a spoiler. Is it? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/111 "2016-04-26T00:39:10Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > I was about to post about a possible upcoming event at castle Black but I’m not sure of the preview at the end of the episode is considered a spoiler. Is it? It has traditionally varied depending on the TV show. In **24** threads, they were spoilers. In **Lost** threads they were not. My theory is that you should always default to putting things in spoiler boxes (and clearly labeling them: “from next week’s preview”), because that way the people who want to read them can read them and the people who don’t can skip them. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/112 "2016-04-26T01:26:48Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > Old people tend to go to bed early. Well done, Sir! ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/113 "2016-04-26T02:25:29Z")
What wasn’t clear to me about Arya is whether she is actually living on the street as a beggar or if she was planted there as a spy by the group who are also using it as an opportunity to train her. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/114 "2016-04-26T03:13:56Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > What wasn’t clear to me about Arya is whether she is actually living on the street as a beggar or if she was planted there as a spy by the group who are also using it as an opportunity to train her. She’s being trained. Before she got her ass kicked the girl asked if she was listening, if she heard anything. And then she got her first Daredevil training. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/115 "2016-04-26T03:48:16Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m almost assuming that Cersei’s Frankenguard isn’t The Mountain since that would have to be the worst kept secret ever. (Hmm- this dead colored and masked 8 foot tall brute appeared just after we gave the not-a-Maester the 8 foot tall body of the Mountain to dispose of, isn’t that a coincidence?) I do hope we get to see some sort of showdown twixt him and his equally not-seen-in-a-grave-or-burned brother The Hound. Of course there’s going to be a showdown: it’s called [Cleganebowl](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cleganebowl), and it’s been prophesied for several years now. Where have you been? During the interim since last season, Ian McShane basically: [Confirmed it](http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/03/game-of-thrones-spoiler-ian-mcshane-hound-alive); talking about the character he’s going to be playing in S6. Which hasn’t been revealed yet, but based on what he’s said is widely thought to be Elder Brother. I know this is a “no books” thread but don’t know if that applies to spoiler boxes so I won’t elaborate, but suffice to say it’s a character from the books. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/116 "2016-04-26T04:02:42Z")
**Rigamarole** , please read the OP. No book references at all, even in spoiler boxes. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Was warging something that Jon was capable of? I thought that was only Bran who could do that. Hmm. I thought Jon had done it before. Maybe, in his dying moments, he’ll figure it out and instinctively do it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/117 "2016-04-26T04:39:09Z")
Of all the plot holes and issues that people have come up with the one that bothers me most is how the Sand Snakes show up in King’s Landing to perforate the Dornish king’s son. Makes NO sense. I even looked at a map and it appears that the sea voyage to King’s Landing is shorter than the land trip. So how did the Sand Snakes get there? Just a little exposition, nude or otherwise, would have helped out a LOT in this instance. You know, have a nude tavern wench tell Jamie, “But if you keep stopping in every port between Sunspear and King’s Landing it will take FOREVER to get there.” Jamie: “There’s no hurry, she’s not going to get less dead in the interim.” ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/118 "2016-04-26T04:41:26Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I actually think that the mercenaries all abandoning at that point was was didn’t make any sense. […] look at it from the perspective of someone who (a) is a mercenary, and (b) lives in a world where blood magic actually works. You’re stuck out in the wilderness, it’s super cold, most of your supplies are gone, and you are being paid to follow someone who is so dedicated to victory that he is willing to sacrifice his own daughter to bring a thaw… and it works! Why would you not continue to take that guy’s coin? Why would you instead just wander off into the middle of the trackless north, where you presumably have no friends and nowhere in particular to go, running very low on supplies? Presumably all of those guys who abandoned him are going to freeze to death the moment the weather turns cold again. I figured the sellswords rode straight to Winterfell and joined the Boltons, and that’s why the Boltons were confident enough to skip the siege and ride straight out into the open field for a fight. They certainly had a _lot_ of horses, as if all of Stannis’s horsemen just joined them. We’d already seen Roose talk about holing up for a siege like it was a given, so something must have changed to convince them to ride out and sieze the advantage. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s probably not the same poison anyway - obviously the one Bronn was afflicted with was much slower acting with none of the same symptoms. It was the same poison with the same symptoms. There’s no reason to assume the conversation where she died took place immediately after the ship set sail. There’s actually real reason to believe it was a while into the trip, giving Jamie time to gather his courage to tell his daughter that he’s a sister-fucker. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Hmm. I thought Jon had done it before. Maybe, in his dying moments, he’ll figure it out and instinctively do it. Nope, no warging for Jon has ever been shown. And he’s well past his dying moments. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/119 "2016-04-26T04:47:33Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Nope, no warging for Jon has ever been shown. And he’s well past his dying moments. Although Ghost does look _especially_ pissed off when Ser Alliser knocks on the door. Admittedly, even as an animal, he might be capable of realizing what a shit he is, but it’s at least also possible that Jon did end up inhabiting him. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/120 "2016-04-26T05:17:00Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Although Ghost does look _especially_ pissed off when Ser Alliser knocks on the door. Admittedly, even as an animal, he might be capable of realizing what a shit he is, but it’s at least also possible that Jon did end up inhabiting him. Possible, sure. But it would be terrible writing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950.md?page=7)