# Game of Thrones 6.01 "The Red Woman" 4/24/2016 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950 "2016-04-23T21:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/141 "2016-04-26T16:33:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That was exactly my point about Melisandre and the abilities of Red Priests. She’s already been established as having the powers that are needed to bring Jon back, so she’s not a _deus ex machina_. Pretty much any other way to bring him back would constitute a _deus ex machina_, since it hasn’t previously been hinted at. > > In any case, bringing Jon back as a Dire Wolf would limit his future ability to form alliances by marriage even more severely than his Night’s Watch oath.😉 Ah, sorry, I read too quickly. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes – at the end of last season, he asked Melisandre. Now that’s a point: didn’t Ser Davos look inquiringly at Melisandre, and she shook her head sadly? Davos might think that they were all wiped out by the Boltons. If he knew that Shireen had been killed when Melisandre told Stannis to sacrifice her, I can’t see Davos responding in any way other than immediate violence. So if Davos doesn’t realize that Shireen was sacrificed, something could still blow up if he ever finds out. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/142 "2016-04-26T16:39:32Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > So if Davos doesn’t realize that Shireen was sacrificed, something could still blow up if he ever finds out. Most of the witnesses are dead, maybe all of them. Any survivors would have a lot more to worry about than telling Davos what happened to Shireen. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/143 "2016-04-26T16:42:02Z")
I know, but there’s the off chance he could run into one of the deserters at some point. Though I agree it’s very unlikely to happen during this arc at The Wall. There’s also the infinitesimal possibility that Melisandre could confess to him, if her “sleeping while old” plan doesn’t kill her and she still feels suicidal in the morning. Also very unlikely, but just putting it out there. It’s mostly notable because it explains the lack of time spent on his reaction. The whole army, plus Shireen getting wiped out is tragic, but Davos can mourn quietly. Shireen being burned at the stake by her own father on Melisandre’s insistence, that’s another matter entirely. I agree that it’s unlikely that they’ll revisit it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/144 "2016-04-26T16:55:42Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Maybe Melisandre _can’t_ resurrect Jon. What we’ve seen indicates that Thoros can resurrect people, and we’re _assuming_ that it’s the Red God doing it through the prayers of his clergy. > > What if Thoros is the only resurrector in Westeros, and he just _credits_ the Red God for the magic? That would just be bad writing. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Now that’s a point: didn’t Ser Davos look inquiringly at Melisandre, and she shook her head sadly? Davos might think that they were all wiped out by the Boltons. If he knew that Shireen had been killed when Melisandre told Stannis to sacrifice her, I can’t see Davos responding in any way other than immediate violence. > > So if Davos doesn’t realize that Shireen was sacrificed, something could still blow up if he ever finds out. Davos knows that Stannis and Shireen didn’t make it by Melisandre’s look, but doesn’t know exactly how. [QUOTE=Shakester] Most of the witnesses are dead, maybe all of them. Any survivors would have a lot more to worry about than telling Davos what happened to Shireen. [/QUOTE] Wrong. About half of Stannis’s army (including all of the sellswords) witnessed Shireen’s death and then deserted before engaging in battle with the Boltons. There are several thousand witnesses still alive. Although they may be in trouble, odds are that at least some of them will make it, or at least contact others who will spread such a horrific tale. Davos may not find out immediately but the story will be out there. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/145 "2016-04-26T17:13:16Z")
While the sellswords are in a pickle, being far from home with winter coming, they have various theoretical options (not all of which are likely from a plot perspective). -Head back east to find Stannis’s fleet (which was also a fleet for hire), which is presumably still hanging around, and negotiate passage back to Essos. -Head north to Castle Black, and either ally themselves with the Watch, or more likely just wipe them out and take their supplies. -Head south to look for another client who will hire them, or else just raid the countryside for supplies. -Offer their services to the Boltons, as insurance against an uprising by other Northern lords. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/146 "2016-04-26T17:24:35Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > However, I can’t work up too much concern for Danny’s fate: she’s got a flying deus-ex-machina ride home any time she wants. (I’m assuming she can psychically whistle for Drogon) There hasn’t really been any indication that she can do anything like that though, has there? I mean, if anything, so far they’ve been going out of their way to put Dany and her little family square in the ‘troubled’ category… (Not that I think that her stint with the Dothraki will be anything but temporary, mind. But maybe it’ll rather be Daario and Ser Jorah coming to get her. I also remember something about Vaes Dothrak that made me think they’ll revisit it eventually, but I can’t quite put my finger on it—some old ruins/artifacts or something that seemed like they could gain eventual plot significance? Am I just imagining things?) ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/147 "2016-04-26T17:26:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …She’s already been established as having the powers that are needed to bring Jon back When was this established? We just know that she’s aware that it’s possible. I was just thinking that maybe she couldn’t have another shadow baby with Stannis because she hit witch menopause. IIRC, she blamed it on Stannis’s stamina. This guy’s out there fighting wars on a horse and a sword, and she’s like 140 years old…and _he’s_ the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/148 "2016-04-26T17:32:56Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > There hasn’t really been any indication that she can do anything like that though, has there? Drogon showed up at exactly the critical moment when she was under attack during the Pit Games. This was either absurdly coincidental or he was somehow responding to her distress (and still would have had to be very close). It’s possible he hasn’t come to save her yet because he’s recuperating from his wounds, but Jorah and Daerio found the spot where he had been convalescing and he wasn’t there. (Maybe he was out to lunch.) ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/149 "2016-04-26T17:34:40Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …Since the Lord Commander is elected, it seems unlikely that they would elect someone they barely know. I think centuries-old protocol of the Night’s Watch was moot the minute that Sam boinked Gilly…er… their Lord Commander let in all the people that they were recruited to stop from getting in. Plus, Davos has the criminal background needed to lead the former criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/150 "2016-04-26T17:35:29Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > When was this established? We just know that she’s aware that it’s possible. Let’s say as a Red Priestess it’s been established that she potentially has the power. Another Red Priest definitely does, and she has been shown to have supernatural abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/151 "2016-04-26T17:38:36Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I think centuries-old protocol of the Night’s Watch was moot the minute that Sam boinked Gilly…er… their Lord Commander let in all the people that they were recruited to stop from getting in. It’s not protocol. It’s just human nature. They know essentially nothing about Davos. He’s given them no reason to elect him. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/152 "2016-04-26T17:44:44Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I watched that episode this weekend and you are correct. It was established the poison acts slowly so she coated her own lips, poisoned the princess and then took the antidote herself. Though one would think that she would take the antidote at the first opportunity, or even prophylactically. Makes for a less cinematic scene, but makes a lot more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/153 "2016-04-26T17:47:00Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That would just be bad writing. If it happens, I shall expect an apology. I’m not saying my theory is definitely correct (and I have zero book/spoiler knowledge), I’m just saying that GRRM likes misdirection and that it’s easy to assume you know what’s going to happen - but this show likes to subvert those expectations. That’s one reason we all keep watching. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/154 "2016-04-26T18:01:03Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > If it happens, I shall expect an apology. I will bet you 1,000 Braavosi iron Titans that it doesn’t happen.😉 > [@](#): > > I’m not saying my theory is definitely correct (and I have zero book/spoiler knowledge), I’m just saying that GRRM likes misdirection and that it’s easy to assume you know what’s going to happen - but this show likes to subvert those expectations. That’s one reason we all keep watching. Agreed, but people think that this means that absolutely anything can happen. Having Thoros of Myr show up now, when he hasn’t appeared for several seasons, would not only be a _deus ex machina_, but an unnecessary one with Melisandre there. Martin misdirects and surprises, but I haven’t seen him really cheat in a significant way. There is likely to be some unexpected twist to Jon’s resurrection, as others have suggested. Melisandre may not raise him the same way Thoros raises Beric. Maybe she’ll sacrifice herself in some way. But bringing in Thoros to do the job now would not be just a plot twist, it would be silly. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/155 "2016-04-26T18:37:19Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s not protocol. It’s just human nature. They know essentially nothing about Davos. He’s given them no reason to elect him. My point was that it might not necessarily be a vote. It is a game of thrones, after all. Plus, the Night’s Watch’s whole purpose of existence is gone, or has changed. The wildlings are all already on the wrong side of the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/156 "2016-04-26T18:43:24Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > My point was that it might not necessarily be a vote. It is a game of thrones, after all. Plus, the Night’s Watch’s whole purpose of existence is gone, or has changed. The wildlings are all already on the wrong side of the wall. The purpose of the Night’s Watch isn’t to defend against the Wildlings. It is to defend against the White Walkers and their army of wights. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/157 "2016-04-26T18:45:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The purpose of the Night’s Watch isn’t to defend against the Wildlings. It is to defend against the White Walkers and their army of wights. Which most of the Night’s Watch seems to have forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/158 "2016-04-26T18:46:34Z")
Isn’t it true that none of the living members of the Night’s Watch ever saw or fought a White Walker or the wights? I thought the White Walkers were sort of legendary until the events in the show occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/159 "2016-04-26T18:56:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Isn’t it true that none of the living members of the Night’s Watch ever saw or fought a White Walker or the wights? I thought the White Walkers were sort of legendary until the events in the show occurred. This was true up until the events of the show. They should all now recognize that the WW are for real. Which is why Alliser Thorne’s explanation about how the wildlings are the real enemy should have fallen flat with the rest of the Night Watch. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950/160 "2016-04-26T18:59:19Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Isn’t it true that none of the living members of the Night’s Watch ever saw or fought a White Walker or the wights? I thought the White Walkers were sort of legendary until the events in the show occurred. There was at least one wight that came back to life at Castle Black during season 1 or 2. I’m not sure if there are any survivors of the expedition led north by the former commander besides Sam and Jon, but there might be some. Finally, it seems to me that the incoming attack by the white walkers was discussed during/after the election of Jon Snow. So I believe that the threat presented by the white walkers is well known by the night watch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-01-the-red-woman-4-24-2016-show-discussion/752950.md?page=9)