# Game of Thrones 6.03 "Oathbreaker" 5/8/2016 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345 "2016-05-08T22:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/321 "2016-05-13T13:45:47Z")
You can’t go comparing Walda’s pregnancy with Gilly’s to figure out timelines and chronology. I don’t want to quote, because the only place I read it was from the author of the books, but there is no guarantee these stories line up. And I think that stipulation applies to the show, too. The scenes with Arya could be months away from the scenes with Jon, which could be months away from the goings in in King’s Landing. The only times they definitely match up is when storylines come together, like with Sansa and Brienne. Otherwise, we have no idea if Sam and Gilly’s storylines line up chronologically with Lady Walda’s. You can’t assume every “present” scene is taking place at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/322 "2016-05-13T13:59:22Z")
The show has not given us any indication that the various scenes are set at different times, so I think it’s reasonable for the viewer to assume that they are. It’s actually a little crazy to think that they’re not all occurring at once. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/323 "2016-05-13T14:12:34Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The show has not given us any indication that the various scenes are set at different times, so I think it’s reasonable for the viewer to assume that they are. It’s actually a little crazy to think that they’re not all occurring at once. Yeah…that sounds like a rationale for sloppy plotting on GRRM’s part. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/324 "2016-05-13T16:05:46Z")
I always took the timeline to be that on an episode to episode basis, the events are necessarily happening at the same time, but over the course of the season it’s roughly the same. For example, at the beginning of this season, the events of the Wall take place immediately after the end of last season, but Jaime has come back all the way from Dorne first for the scenes in King’s Landing. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/325 "2016-05-13T16:42:22Z")
…and Arya’s story has been taking place over weeks and months while Jon’s has been all happening in the same 24 hours. Clearly the events of the story are unfolding at different rates. They’re happening around the same time, but not necessarily all at the exact same instant. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/326 "2016-05-13T17:10:52Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It doesn’t seem much different in Westeros. Tommen might be legally of age and technically ruling the kingdom while not actually doing so. But in fact, it seems to me that he isn’t more limited than Joffrey was. They were leaving the latter kill and humiliate people, but I don’t remember instances when he actually was allowed to decide about any matter significant for the kingdom. > > And personnally, I too perceive Tommen as being about 14. I’d guess 14-15 as well. Westeros does not really have especially clear laws; there seem to be a myriad of unofficial traditions, customs, and understandings. The position of King of Westeros did not exist prior to Aegon’s conquest of most of the continent, and so for most of the existence of the position, “King of Westeros” was by definition what the Targaryen family could get away with doing. When they overstepped what the realms most powerful lords would let them get away with, they were killed and Robert Baratheon became King. He was a terrible King, it seems, as was Joffrey, and Tommen is not off to a great start, though all for different reasons. The Westeros we see isn’t really a nation-state with clear laws; it is, consistent with the medieval theme, an affiliated group of feudal lords with varying degrees of loyalty to one another and the nominal crown, and if things go sideways a hideous civil war can break out - nationwide, in the case of the War Of A Whole Buncha Kings, of locally, as in the Ironborn’s ill-advised attempts to invade the mainland. So basically, the rules governing what the King can or can’t do appear to be more or less based on who the King is, how much he can get away with, and how much the various higher-level lords feel they can get away with as they jockey for position. Laws are applied based on tradition but also, to a large extent, on the strength of the ruler who chooses to apply the law. Indeed, it isn’t really super clear what Tommen Baratheon is King of, is it? He doesn’t have full control over his own capital city; his own Queen is imprisoned by a religious nut and he refuses to do anything about it. So far as we can tell the Crown now has zero influence over what happens anywhere else; agents of Dorne murdered the King’s sister, which is an open act of rebellion and treason, and they seem powerless to do anything about that. The North is in a state of low-intensity conflict that the Crown appears not only powerless to do anything about, but disinterested in doing anything about; it is now effectively not part of the same country at all. King Tommen is now similar to the Emperor of Japan during the Sengoku Period, when the Emperor sat in Kyoto and everyone smiled and offered him gifts and said what a wonderful rules he was but went on fighting each other and not actually taking any orders from the Imperial “government.” ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/327 "2016-05-13T17:32:22Z")
Essentially, the entire show could be summed up in Varys “Power resides where men believe it resides” speech. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/328 "2016-05-13T18:01:47Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > He was never actually shown having sex, just implied. The scene indicated that he was naked in bed (even if not shown) with an older woman who was also naked, and talking about just having sex and doing it again. That may be enough for the law to prohibit it, or even if it doesn’t the show doesn’t want to risk it. > [@clairobscur](#): > > We don’t know what’s the age of majority in Westeros for kings. Yes we do. It’s 16. > [@](#): > > And personnally, I too perceive Tommen as being about 14. You’re welcome to perceive whatever you want, but the evidence indicates otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/329 "2016-05-13T18:29:48Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Yeah…that sounds like a rationale for sloppy plotting on GRRM’s part. Martin isn’t plotting the TV show. The showrunners are adapting various plotlines according to the demands of composing 10 one-hour shows per season. How exactly they slice and dice the material has little to with the source material. As **Shakester** says, while events are happening in roughly the same time period, they aren’t going on simultaneously. Even in the same episode different timelines could be off by several months if not more. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/330 "2016-05-13T18:36:47Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Is there somewhere that we’ve established what the legal requirements/options are on having a reagent? Perhaps it’s less a hard set of rules than a preference on Tommen’s part not to have something that could be perceived as a stain on his monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/331 "2016-05-13T18:43:54Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > Perhaps it’s less a hard set of rules than a preference on Tommen’s part not to have something that could be perceived as a stain on his monarchy. Why would having a regent be a stain on the monarchy? If it were, and he had a choice, Joffrey wouldn’t have accepted one. In any case, I don’t think having a regent is by the choice of the underage monarch. If he could make his own decisions he wouldn’t need a regent. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/332 "2016-05-13T21:03:53Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes we do. It’s 16. Where / when was this established? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/333 "2016-05-13T21:15:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The scene indicated that he was naked in bed (even if not shown) with an older woman who was also naked, and talking about just having sex and doing it again. That may be enough for the law to prohibit it, or even if it doesn’t the show doesn’t want to risk it. By the way, did they say in an interview/podcast or something that they’re subject to this Irish law? I’m curious, since even though they have their filming HQ there, it’s a US-based company producing for a US network. US productions for TV and film shoot all over the world pretty regularly and I’ve never heard of them having to abide by laws of the countries they shoot in regarding the cinematic content of the end product. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/334 "2016-05-13T21:17:55Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Where / when was this established? I’ve already answered this. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/335 "2016-05-13T21:25:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’ve already answered this. Actors are routinely cast to play characters several years younger than their own age. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/336 "2016-05-13T21:36:33Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > By the way, did they say in an interview/podcast or something that they’re subject to this Irish law? I’m curious, since even though they have their filming HQ there, it’s a US-based company producing for a US network. US productions for TV and film shoot all over the world pretty regularly and I’ve never heard of them having to abide by laws of the countries they shoot in regarding the cinematic content of the end product. It’s a UK law, not just Northern Ireland. They show the program in the UK, and they receive funding from Northern Ireland. They’ll need to comply with UK law. [Here’s an article](http://www.bustle.com/articles/23164-how-old-are-bran-stark-tommen-on-game-of-thrones-why-none-of-the-characters) that discusses the issue. > [@](#): > > The aging up of these characters from book to show actually effects David Benioff and David Weiss’ adaptation quite a bit: in Ireland, where much of the show is filmed, the broadcasting decency laws set the age of consent at 16, not for the actor portraying a character, but for the character itself. Accordingly, most of the main children were aged up by at least two years. Adding on the elongated structure of the timeline — whereas two years passes between the first and third A Song of Ice and Fire books, nearly four years will have passed in the four TV seasons based on those first three novels — the ages of the characters and actors who play the future rulers continue to have great effect on how creators are able to tell the story of the Iron Throne of Westeros. > > George R. R. Martin has said that Daenerys’ storyline was the principal reason for all of the leading younger characters aging up two years in the series. Per United Kingdom broadcast decency laws, it was imperative that Daenerys be aged to 16, as she has a plot-important consummation scene with Khal Drogo on their wedding night in the very first episode; but Daenerys’ age is also inherently linked to the overall timeline of the Game of Thrones series …This caused the timeline of the entire series to shift by approximately two years, and the ages of the rest of the young characters along with it. The article says Tommen is “13 or 14” _at that time_, but it was written two years ago, and before his wedding night scene with Margaery. The information indicates that by the time he was shown having sex, his character must have been at least 16, to comply with UK law. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/337 "2016-05-13T21:41:31Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Actors are routinely cast to play characters several years younger than their own age. However, in GoT the child actors are playing characters more or less their own age. They aged the characters to match the ago of the actors, rather than having older actors playing characters much younger than their own age. And none of the other child actors are playing characters five years younger than their actual age, as people have been claiming for Tommen. (Natalie Dormer is playing a much younger character, but she is an adult.) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/338 "2016-05-13T21:53:25Z")
It would seem to me that Tommen’s age is never established in the series, so that they can plausibly tell any authorities “oh don’t worry, he’s 16” while getting the audience to infer he’s actually 12-14. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/339 "2016-05-13T21:59:12Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It would seem to me that Tommen’s age is never established in the series, so that they can plausibly tell any authorities “oh don’t worry, he’s 16” while getting the audience to infer he’s actually 12-14. Whatever. Like I said, if you want to imagine to yourself he is 14 and ignore the ample evidence that he’s at least 16 per the TV show, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/340 "2016-05-13T22:26:08Z")
I see the point about how it depends if it’s aired, not just filmed, in the UK, but aren’t many of Tommen’s scenes filmed in Croatia? Or just the outdoor ones? > [@SenorBeef](#): > > It would seem to me that Tommen’s age is never established in the series, so that they can plausibly tell any authorities “oh don’t worry, he’s 16” while getting the audience to infer he’s actually 12-14. Roman Polanski’s Game of Thrones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345.md?page=18)