# Game of Thrones 6.03 "Oathbreaker" 5/8/2016 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345 "2016-05-08T22:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/81 "2016-05-09T17:37:40Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Unless he’s an absolute idiot, he will keep him as an hostage. Ramsey is married to Sansa and Rickon is the only known living person who can undermine his own legitimacy as Lord of the North. You just saw what he did to the other one in Episode 2. As far as Ramsey knows, Bran is dead and Jon is a bastard who isn’t allowed to get involved in these matters once he joined the Night’s Watch. If anything, he was willing to attack Jon and the Night’s Watch at the Wall. So I’m not sure what holding Rickon as hostage really accomplishes. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/82 "2016-05-09T17:48:32Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The only reason I don’t subscribe to the Jon Snow as bastard Targaryen fan theory is his looks: Targaryens looked like Daenerys and her brother, almost albino. Cersei and Jaime perhaps, but there’s not really anybody around who could speak to their mother’s fidelity, plus they looked like Tywin. One thing I was waiting for that didn’t happen: Arya always gets a whack when she lies. She got a whack when she said she had four brothers, but not a whack when she said one was a half brother. Maybe the Many Faced God hasn’t got that bit of info, but if Jon is a Targaryen, seems like she would have got a whack for claiming him as a half brother. Would have been a good twist if they wanted to drop a hint about Jon’s lineage. Keep whacking her until she got around to calling him a cousin. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/83 "2016-05-09T17:51:00Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Loved the guy for his laconic quips, and his being both utterly unimpressed by Ramsay and obviously skeptical of the explanation of how Dear Old Dad died. (The actor looked a little like Daniel Day-Lewis, I thought). Also, the way he said it, it sounds like it’s fairly well known how Roose actually died, or at least well suspected. Seems like everyone knows that Ramsay is a mad dog, and sooner or later he will be put down. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Agreed. Daenerys is the queen of making lemons into lemonade. Her political husband was even murdered by the Sons of the Harpy in the very same incident that led her to be captured by the Dothraki. She’ll come out of this better than she went in, no doubt. > > \ > > Regarding the hanging: I thought there were way more than five conspirators in Jon Snow’s stabbing. I recall a group of around 10 people obscuring the “traitor” sign, even if it was only five that stabbed him. > > On that note: why did Jon execute the traitors right before resigning? Did he figure that they were going to get executed one way or another, and thought it best that he handle it himself instead of dropping it in his successor’s lap? What I’d like to see is Dany bringing the widows together and pointing out that it’s bullshit that they have to hang out in the temple for the rest of their lives, and they get some sort of insurrection going. Dany didn’t choose to marry her Khal, I’m guessing some of the others didn’t have a choice either. But I don’t know how likely that is. After the wildlings came back, there were some that dropped their swords and surrendered, and some that wanted to keep fighting until they were dragged away to the prisons. I had guessed that those that surrendered were either forgiven, or had to do some sort of penance or received other judgments, while the four executed were unrepentant and very well might have tried again. Ned was big on doing the dirty work himself of executions that needed to be done, it makes sense that Jon would feel he needed to do that before he moved on. Although I wondered about him handing over his cape; even though the resurrection was unprecedented, I figured there still needed to be a new election or something to choose the Lord Commander, not just handing it over. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/84 "2016-05-09T17:51:26Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > One thing I was waiting for that didn’t happen: > > Arya always gets a whack when she lies. She got a whack when she said she had four brothers, but not a whack when she said one was a half brother. > > Maybe the Many Faced God hasn’t got that bit of info, but if Jon is a Targaryen, seems like she would have got a whack for claiming him as a half brother. > > Would have been a good twist if they wanted to drop a hint about Jon’s lineage. Keep whacking her until she got around to calling him a cousin. 😃 I thought the same thing at first, but realized that she wasn’t lying. She simply doesn’t know the (probable) truth. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/85 "2016-05-09T17:52:00Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > On that note: why did Jon execute the traitors right before resigning? Did he figure that they were going to get executed one way or another, and thought it best that he handle it himself instead of dropping it in his successor’s lap? I think it comes down to Ned’s line from the first episode, about how the person who passes the sentence should be the one doing the execution. > [@troub](#): > > Oh, one other thing I noticed is that they acknowledge a few times, and this episode they got fairly direct with it, that they’re waiting for these charges from the Faith Militant and the coming trial by combat. I’m still not clear what they’re waiting for exactly. I’m really tired of this storyline and I hope it comes to a climax soon. Pretty much every scene with them has basically been: “I’m the Queen!” “Don’t care” “I’m also the Queen!” “Don’t care” “I’m the King!” “Don’t care” > [@Colibri](#): > > There were six shown stabbing him: the four who were hung plus two more. I count at least 15 in total in the group. Maybe the others were hung before the ringleaders. (However, it’s odd that someone low-ranking like Olly was hung along with the First Ranger, First Steward, and First Builder, unless his role as Jon’s steward made him especially treasonous.) Made they died when the wildlings attacked? I don’t know if we actually saw anyone die, but at least a few people fought back. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/86 "2016-05-09T18:02:52Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Made they died when the wildlings attacked? I don’t know if we actually saw anyone die, but at least a few people fought back. Two members of the Watch died, and no Wildlings. One of the Watch was smashed against a wall by the giant Wun Wun. The two who died could coincidentally have been the other two who actually stabbed Jon, while the others who only stood by were spared hanging. It could have just been an economy of staging, though. The four who were hung had all had at least brief speaking parts. Adding two unknowns would have diluted the impact. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/87 "2016-05-09T18:07:45Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > One thing I was waiting for that didn’t happen: > > Arya always gets a whack when she lies. She got a whack when she said she had four brothers, but not a whack when she said one was a half brother. > > Maybe the Many Faced God hasn’t got that bit of info, but if Jon is a Targaryen, seems like she would have got a whack for claiming him as a half brother. > > Would have been a good twist if they wanted to drop a hint about Jon’s lineage. Keep whacking her until she got around to calling him a cousin. 😃 It’s not the god feeding them info, they can just tell when someone is lying because of their training. She didn’t get a whack because what she said she honestly believed to be true and there would have been no telltale signs of lying. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/88 "2016-05-09T18:13:46Z")
I just realized one more thing, Mellisandra’s story arc could well be complete and Sir Davos still doesn’t know the role she played in Shireens death. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/89 "2016-05-09T18:22:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Although I wondered about him handing over his cape; even though the resurrection was unprecedented, I figured there still needed to be a new election or something to choose the Lord Commander, not just handing it over. Edd may just be Acting Lord Commander until an election can be held. (Did Alliser wear the cape when he was Acting Lord Commander?) ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/90 "2016-05-09T18:23:14Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > I just realized one more thing, Mellisandra’s story arc could well be complete and Sir Davos still doesn’t know the role she played in Shireens death. It was pretty funny and telling when she basically did all the “work” in bringing Jon back from the dead, only to have Davos shoo her away after time for only one question. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/91 "2016-05-09T18:24:27Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Would have been a good twist if they wanted to drop a hint about Jon’s lineage. Keep whacking her until she got around to calling him a cousin. 😃 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/0IBZocFkXGY/hqdefault.jpg "Sister Daughter Chinatown.flv") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IBZocFkXGY) ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/92 "2016-05-09T18:38:01Z")
> [@JeffB](#): > > It’s interesting to see how much hate Olly inspires. The viewers see things from Jon’s perspective since he is one of the main characters, but from Olly’s perspective – a young boy watching his family and village slaughtered by wildlings – his feelings of betrayal by Jon are understandable Mainly I don’t like his sneering, snotty face. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I hope next week instead of the past he shows Bran the movie _The Seventh Seal_. While watching that scene, I realized that I have a Seventh Seal poster not 2 feet away from the TV. That movie is also 59 years old(!) so Sydow is a credible centuries-old guy. > [@clairobscur](#): > > If I were Cersei, I wouldn’t trust Qyburn too much. I don’t feel this guy can be relied on. I suspect he’s some sort of manipulator like Littlefinger. I got a pedo vibe from his scene. Considering that his predecessor is a bald, creepy, doughy eunuch who uses terms of endearment for children, that’s a mean feat to seem creepier. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > On that note: why did Jon execute the traitors right before resigning? Did he figure that they were going to get executed one way or another, and thought it best that he handle it himself instead of dropping it in his successor’s lap? For the same reason he didn’t pawn off Janos’ execution. What Ned taught in I think the second scene of S1E1. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Ned was big on doing the dirty work himself of executions that needed to be done, it makes sense that Jon would feel he needed to do that before he moved on. Although I wondered about him handing over his cape; even though the resurrection was unprecedented, I figured there still needed to be a new election or something to choose the Lord Commander, not just handing it over. “My fellow Americans: Soon you will make a choice between Senator Clinton or Trump… SYKE! ALL HAIL PRESIDENT BIDEN!” ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/93 "2016-05-09T18:52:54Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Loved the guy for his laconic quips, and his being both utterly unimpressed by Ramsay and obviously skeptical of the explanation of how Dear Old Dad died. (The actor looked a little like Daniel Day-Lewis, I thought). Best line of the episode was “Hhrmmm”. > [@Colibri](#): > > Two members of the Watch died, and no Wildlings. One of the Watch was smashed against a wall by the giant Wun Wun. The two who died could coincidentally have been the other two who actually stabbed Jon, while the others who only stood by were spared hanging. > > It could have just been an economy of staging, though. The four who were hung had all had at least brief speaking parts. Adding two unknowns would have diluted the impact. I think so, it was a (fairly noticeable) cinematic shortcut, both to frame the camera sequence and, as you said, because two more anonymous traitor’s last words would have diluted the impact. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/94 "2016-05-09T18:53:27Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I really like what they did with the Thorne character. They could’ve made him a coward, or made him too evil, but instead they created a very believable stubborn hardass who never betrayed his character and went out with a rebuke and his head held high. It was a fitting end. Agreed. > [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > … > And a couple of great lines- > “I’m not a god.” “I know that. I saw your pecker. What kind of god would have a pecker that small.” > > and “A wise man once said the true history of the world is a history of great conversations, in elegant rooms.” “Who said this?” “Me. Just now.” Also agreed. > [@Critical1](#): > > …Cersie and Jaimie… Nitpick: Cersei and Jaime. > [@msmith537](#): > > “Deserves” got nothin’ to do with it… I see what you did there. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Okay, I had to rewind to listen again because this line was so jarring: > > Jaquen: If a girl tells me her name, I will restore her sight. > > Me? I?! What the hell happened to Jaquen? Every rule was made to be broken. Maybe he was testing to see if she would notice? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/95 "2016-05-09T19:23:44Z")
Is this Jaquen the same Jaquen she saved from death at Harrenhall or has that been established? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/96 "2016-05-09T19:37:52Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > One thing I was waiting for that didn’t happen: > > Arya always gets a whack when she lies. She got a whack when she said she had four brothers, but not a whack when she said one was a half brother. Okay, I just realized it may be I’ve been misunderstanding what the Game they’ve been playing with Arya has been all along. See, I thought it was a training exercise to teach you how to lie in a perfectly believable manner. These assassins take on new identities and basically ‘go undercover’ and must be able to act and speak as if they actually were an oyster monger or whatever. So the way to succeed in the game ISN’T to tell the truth, it’s to include lies in what you say, but so smoothly that the listener cannot tell when you are lying versus telling the truth. So during the training sequence Arya got whacked for saying she had the wrong number of brothers BECAUSE she knew she was lying AND the Waif could tell she was lying. Failed attempt at lie = whack. Tell a lie and have it believed = you’ve basically won a point. Though how they’d know you’d managed to lie successfully versus simply telling the complete truth all the time I don’t know, and if you actually win some reward for managing five successful lies in a session or something like that, they haven’t shown. But when Arya said Jon was a half brother she was telling the truth (as she believes it to be) and thus she didn’t either fail or succeed and the Waif didn’t react to that statement. Anybody else see it this way? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/97 "2016-05-09T19:38:32Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Is this Jaquen the same Jaquen she saved from death at Harrenhall or has that been established? A man has many faces. And a face has many men. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/98 "2016-05-09T19:44:48Z")
When Khal Drogo died, Dani the Khaleesi was a widow surrounded by his army. Most left to join other clans. But the loyal stayed on to march with her. Question: How is it that not a single person, from her internal group to one of the thousands of others, happened to say to Dani “oh by the way, you’re now supposed to live the rest of your life in a hut on a hill. Maybe we should take you there?” I mean, I guess the rest of the former queens, having grown up in the culture, already know about the rule and just go there. But I’m pretty sure a few would need to be gently reminded of their duty. Soooo…is this whole situation a retcon? Or just a conversation they conveniently skipped over near the end of Season 1? ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/99 "2016-05-09T19:51:22Z")
Yesterday I did a play through of **Civilization 5: A Mod of Fire and Ice**. Interestingly, I had two direwolf units die in battle near the Dreadfort. All Civs, except the Iron Islands and Littlefinger (The Vale), have declared war against the Lannisters. During the brouhaha, Littlefinger slipped in with a sneak attack and suddenly owns The Twins, The Riverlands, and The Iron Islands. Based on this augury, I think Littlefinger is seriously going to shake things up next episode. ---
**Author:** ![Ace331](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Ace331](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace331)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345/100 "2016-05-09T20:15:57Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > When Khal Drogo died, Dani the Khaleesi was a widow surrounded by his army. Most left to join other clans. But the loyal stayed on to march with her. > > Question: How is it that not a single person, from her internal group to one of the thousands of others, happened to say to Dani “oh by the way, you’re now supposed to live the rest of your life in a hut on a hill. Maybe we should take you there?” > > I mean, I guess the rest of the former queens, having grown up in the culture, already know about the rule and just go there. But I’m pretty sure a few would need to be gently reminded of their duty. > > Soooo…is this whole situation a retcon? Or just a conversation they conveniently skipped over near the end of Season 1? It was discussed in one of the earlier seasons. I believe sometime after the wedding they visited that place. Dani knew she was supposed to go back when Drogo died and decided not to. Which is part of the reason for a decison needing to be made on what to do with her, since she knowingly disobeyed the rule. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-03-oathbreaker-5-8-2016-show-discussion/754345.md?page=6)