# Game of Thrones 6.04 "Book of the Stranger" 5/15/16 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869 "2016-05-15T20:20:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/241 "2016-05-20T05:58:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Granted Dany is very arrogant and self-assured about her right to rule the Seven Kingdoms, but she has been very conflicted and unsure of herself as a ruler in fact. Remember, she’s just out of her teens and still very young. Also remember that that’s not how she started out—in the first few episodes, she was rather demure, deferential to her abusive brother, insecure, and weak. After all, this is what allowed her to become Drogo’s wife in the first place—that her brother was using her to further his own goals. This is not really something that could happen with Dany as she is now, as we’ve just been very impressively reminded. So I’d say that we have already seen some considerable character development there (certainly more than with Ramsay, who’s remained very true to his violent sadism). She might have overshot a little, but this has already had consequences—the revolution in Mereen, the other two cities falling back under the rule of the Masters, etc.—which I’m sure will serve to shape the character further. > [@](#): > > I rather like them as representing the nerds and dweebs of the world. Everybody else is noble and heroic (or villainous), obsessed with taking the crown, or vengeance, or religion, or some other shit. Both of them are basically cowards (though capable of courage when in desperation) who are mainly concerned with staying alive in the midst of all the total lunatics hacking each other to pieces around them. Gilly in particular is the only character who represents the viewpoint of common, ordinary people, and as such I think she provides valuable contrast to everyone else. Nice observation, I hadn’t thought of it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/242 "2016-05-20T15:47:12Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Nice observation, I hadn’t thought of it that way. Gilly, despite uneducated, naive, and being a victim of incest and a witness to every variety of horror, is probably the most realistic, sensible, and centered character on the whole show. Her main concern is keeping her head down and staying out of trouble to protect her baby (and Sam) until the shit stops flying. As much as we would like to identify with the heroic characters, I suspect that if most of us were projected into the GoT world we’d act a lot more than Gilly than the other major characters.😉 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/243 "2016-05-20T15:56:23Z")
But we don’t want to watch ourselves in the GoT universe any more than we’d want to watch a farmer cut down wheat with a scythe for 15 minutes. Her scenes are painfully boring and detract from a show with interesting characters and events. Her and Sam both are pretty much actively boring. I’d much rather follow Shagga, Son of Dolf or… literally any other character that has existed in the show, including the Sand Snakes, than either of them. The whole thing comes to a grinding halt if either are on screen, and if you ever rewatch the series you can safely skip all their scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/244 "2016-05-20T16:06:36Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But we don’t want to watch ourselves in the GoT universe any more than we’d want to watch a farmer cut down wheat with a scythe for 15 minutes. Her scenes are painfully boring and detract from a show with interesting characters and events. Her and Sam both are pretty much actively boring. I’d much rather follow Shagga, Son of Dolf or… literally any other character that has existed in the show, including the Sand Snakes, than either of them. The whole thing comes to a grinding halt if either are on screen, and if you ever rewatch the series you can safely skip all their scenes. Obviously, YMMV, but I think they offer an interesting contrast with the other story lines. And I don’t require seeing violent action or conflict (or boobs ;)) in every scene. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/245 "2016-05-20T16:09:24Z")
Oh there are lots of fantastic scenes on the show that don’t feature violent action or conflict or boobs - just none that involve Sam and Gilly. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/246 "2016-05-20T16:10:58Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Oh there are lots of fantastic scenes on the show that don’t feature violent action or conflict or boobs - just none that involve Sam and Gilly. Just because they’re not interesting to you doesn’t mean they’re not interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/247 "2016-05-20T16:19:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Gilly, despite uneducated, naive, and being a victim of incest and a witness to every variety of horror, is probably the most realistic, sensible, and centered character on the whole show. Her main concern is keeping her head down and staying out of trouble to protect her baby (and Sam) until the shit stops flying. As much as we would like to identify with the heroic characters, I suspect that if most of us were projected into the GoT world we’d act a lot more than Gilly than the other major characters.😉 > [@SenorBeef](#): > > But we don’t want to watch ourselves in the GoT universe any more than we’d want to watch a farmer cut down wheat with a scythe for 15 minutes. Her scenes are painfully boring and detract from a show with interesting characters and events. Her and Sam both are pretty much actively boring. I’d much rather follow Shagga, Son of Dolf or… literally any other character that has existed in the show, including the Sand Snakes, than either of them. The whole thing comes to a grinding halt if either are on screen, and if you ever rewatch the series you can safely skip all their scenes. Both of these are good points. There’s potentially a lot of value in getting a worm’s-eye view of Westeros - mainly we follow the great lords and ladies, the people whose actions have the greatest impact, and we don’t follow the little people to see how that impact plays out. So in theory it would be good to get that perspective. Early on, in fact, we followed Rosie(?), the prostitute who left the North for King’s Landing when the Starks moved south. We saw her find a new place, suffer setbacks, develop a role for herself as madam/manager in Littlefinger’s brothel, get enmeshed in intrigue she wasn’t cut out for and ultimately killed by her boss’s scheming and Joffrey’s sadism. That was interesting, tragic and meaningful. By contrast, Sam and Gilly aren’t really one thing or another. They’re not just little people swept up in the great convulsions shaking Westeros - Sam (if not Gilly) is someone with a role to play. We expect him to do plot-relevant stuff and play an active role in defeating the White Walkers. When he spends a lot of time not doing that, it’s frustrating. Gilly, being involved with Sam, is also betwixt and between. As a character, she really is doing no more than trying to survive, but her role is so close to the action (or feels like it should be) that when she just gets on a boat with Sam then we feel nothing is happening. Hopefully when we get to the Tarly family we’ll get to see Gilly and Sam a) do something, and b) show some character other than squishiness as a result of the interpersonal challenges they’ll face. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/248 "2016-05-20T16:19:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Just because they’re not interesting to you doesn’t mean they’re not interesting. That’s just like, your opinion man. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/249 "2016-05-20T16:29:55Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Hopefully when we get to the Tarly family we’ll get to see Gilly and Sam a) do something, and b) show some character other than squishiness as a result of the interpersonal challenges they’ll face. Since Sam’s father has threatened to kill him if he didn’t join the Night Watch, I doubt he’ll be very receptive to having his son just show up with a wildling woman with a son called “Little Sam” in evident violation of his vows. And I’m sure the explanation that the baby is not actually his but by her own father won’t help things very much. Nor will his claim to having killed a White Walker be believed. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/250 "2016-05-20T16:35:55Z")
He’s not going to tell him the truth about Craster, he’s going to pass it off as his own kid so they feel obligated to take care of it. I think he’s hoping his dad will be impressed enough that he touched a vagina that he won’t murder his grandson right off the bat. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/251 "2016-05-20T17:07:02Z")
I wonder what the Dothraki eat. They don’t seem to plant, they don’t seem to herd, they ride all day on grasslands, and even assuming constant raiding it doesn’t seem the people have a lot to spare. They apparently have some gold and something to trade with (since there are merchants in their city) but I wonder what their ultimate economy is. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/252 "2016-05-20T17:16:33Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Early on, in fact, we followed Rosie(?), the prostitute who left the North for King’s Landing when the Starks moved south. We saw her find a new place, suffer setbacks, develop a role for herself as madam/manager in Littlefinger’s brothel, get enmeshed in intrigue she wasn’t cut out for and ultimately killed by her boss’s scheming and Joffrey’s sadism. That was interesting, tragic and meaningful. Many (maybe most) of the smallfolk we see individually (usually briefly) end up being killed or otherwise victimized by the highborn or their soldiers. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > He’s not going to tell him the truth about Craster, he’s going to pass it off as his own kid so they feel obligated to take care of it. I think he’s hoping his dad will be impressed enough that he touched a vagina that he won’t murder his grandson right off the bat. I agree that he probably won’t tell his family about Craster. However, violating his oath is at least technically a capital crime, although usually overlooked. (This is discussed when Jon is judged before the Night Watch for having sex with Ygritte among other things.) Such sentences can be carried out by any Lord, as Ned Stark did with the deserter in the first episode. Since his father was perfectly willing to kill him before in secret, this would give him an excuse to do it in a perfectly justified manner. Since he has another younger son to serve as heir, a bastard of Sam, who can’t inherit anyway, is of utterly no use to him. If he’s as much an asshole as he’s been depicted, after executing Sam (or before) he would kill Gilly as an enemy wildling. If he didn’t want to have the baby killed immediately he would conveniently have an “accident” in fairly short order. Sam is so unrealistic who knows what he’ll tell his father. But telling him the baby is his own is definitely not a smart move. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/253 "2016-05-20T17:30:56Z")
I don’t think either of those will happen. His father gave him the choice of Watch or Death because he didn’t want him to be the heir. I don’t think he’s going to give two shits about Gilly or the baby. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/254 "2016-05-20T17:52:59Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I wonder what the Dothraki eat. They don’t seem to plant, they don’t seem to herd, they ride all day on grasslands, and even assuming constant raiding it doesn’t seem the people have a lot to spare. They apparently have some gold and something to trade with (since there are merchants in their city) but I wonder what their ultimate economy is. They eat horse meat and fermented mare’s milk, and whatever food they can plunder. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/255 "2016-05-20T19:43:12Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I don’t think either of those will happen. > > His father gave him the choice of Watch or Death because he didn’t want him to be the heir. > I don’t think he’s going to give two shits about Gilly or the baby. And presumably Sam’s mother has _some_ influence. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/256 "2016-05-20T19:53:31Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > And presumably Sam’s mother has _some_ influence. That’s what Sam is counting on, from what he tells Gilly. It’s bound to be a tense family drama, like _Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?_ ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/257 "2016-05-20T23:19:19Z")
That’s two beatdowns with a stab-in-the-back-last-second-save for Jorah now (the other one being in the arena). I guess Grayscale is pretty much beside the point if you’re an old man picking fights in Essos… Any idea how the dothraki guessed he was not a merchant? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/258 "2016-05-20T23:32:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > They eat horse meat and fermented mare’s milk, and whatever food they can plunder. And as a reminder of how they depicted this, back in the first season when Dany was pregnant, at one point she complained about being tired of eating horse meat. Her servant chastised the menfolk to find her a rabbit or goat or something. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/259 "2016-05-21T02:07:30Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Early on, in fact, we followed Rosie(?), the prostitute who left the North for King’s Landing when the Starks moved south. Ros. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869/260 "2016-05-21T02:19:15Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > That’s two beatdowns with a stab-in-the-back-last-second-save for Jorah now (the other one being in the arena). > > I guess Grayscale is pretty much beside the point if you’re an old man picking fights in Essos… What are you talking about? Are you still beating that dead horse of claiming he somehow exposed Dany by touching her hand nowhere near where his exposure site is? He even _explained_ this time that it’s fine as long as you don’t touch the exposed area. That really should have put this whole nonsense to rest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-04-book-of-the-stranger-5-15-16-show-discussion/754869.md?page=14)