# Game of Thrones 6.07 "The Broken Man" 6/5/16 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 6, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631 "2016-06-06T00:20:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/181 "2016-06-07T04:30:06Z")
I don’t think the massacre was the feat of just those three guys though. Too many dead, too many arrows… Plus I don’t know how to interpret the look Clegane gave the bald guy. I think they remembered each other from the Hound’s time in Berric’s camp, or possibly Clegane recognized the guy and was concerned that the guy would recognize him. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/182 "2016-06-07T04:48:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t think the massacre was the feat of just those three guys though. Too many dead, too many arrows… Of course not. Whoever they were they had other companions elsewhere. (Assuming they were involved in the massacre at all.) Also, none of them appeared to be carrying a bow or arrows. The bowmen who committed the massacre wouldn’t have been them. > [@](#): > > Plus I don’t know how to interpret the look Clegane gave the bald guy. I think they remembered each other from the Hound’s time in Berric’s camp, or possibly Clegane recognized the guy and was concerned that the guy would recognize him. You think someone might not recognize the Hound after seeing him even once?:dubious: Per IMDB, none of those guys (actors or character names) has appeared in the show before this season, so they weren’t in Berric’s camp. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/183 "2016-06-07T04:59:44Z")
Hmm. Must have been your average Clegane “careful who you’re about to fuck with, kid” look then 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Garula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Garula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garula)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/184 "2016-06-07T05:18:53Z")
Lady Mormont is the kind of leader you want to throw your lot in with in this world. As a child she’s already more competent than most of the other lords fumbling about. Assuming she survives the coming battles, House Mormont will likely have a pretty long run of stability and competent leadership. I’m surprised that John played the “I was Jeor’s steward” card but didn’t bother to show the sword passed on to him. He still has it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/185 "2016-06-07T06:13:01Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As for Jaime’s motivations and future actions… I think he’s going to ally himself with the Blackfish and the North in the battle for Winterfell. There are lots of reasons for this: First of all, he’s a smart man, and he will listen to what Brienne has to tell him about what’s going on at the wall. Second, he has to know that Ramsay Bolton is a disaster. It’s one thing for the Lannisters to ally with Roose Bolton, who was certainly ruthless but also knew when to reign it in to keep the support of the people he needed. Ramsay is a disaster who will eventually lose the North to someone else, and the Lannisters wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of that. Finally, if Jaime can be convinced about the threat of the White Walkers, it pretty much renders the Game of Thrones moot for the time being. > > Also, Jaime has just been stripped of his honor and his life-long position by his own family, and essentially exiled from King’s Landing. He knows that Cersei is in big trouble and that the Lannisters are holding on by a thread. Therefore, regaining some form of alliance with a Stark in the North might be a big deal. > > I think Brienne is going to make all the difference. When she shows up on the side of the Blackfish, it’s going to cause Jaime to do a lot of very hard thinking about his own honor and what kind of person he wants to be. He’s going to take a hard look at the band of cowards and cutthroats he’s currently ‘allied’ with, and compare them to the honorable people on the other side, and he won’t like the comparison. > > This seems to me to be almost telegraphed by the over-the-top incompetence and nastiness of the Frey army. The director seems to be going to great pains to show just how dishonorable Jaime’s side is compared to the Blackfish. > > And of course, it certainly looked like the Blackfish convinced him that a siege of the castle is a very dicey proposition, what with winter coming and the castle set up for the long haul. So he may not have any choice but to make peace in the first place. You mean like I said back on page one of this thread? > [@Shakester](#): > > Does anyone else think it’s possible that Jaime will turn on the Freys, and lend some degree of support to Jon & Sansa? > > I could see Brienne persuading Jaime to go that way. And it certainly looks like Jaime is no fan of the Freys. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/186 "2016-06-07T06:18:11Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Does anyone think it’s weird how everyone has started calling the head White Walker, the “Night King”? I heard Benjen mention it but I assumed he learned it from the Three-Eyed Raven. Where did everyone else come up with that name? My assumption was that _the Night King_ was a name from legends that were well known in that society. The same way we all know the names _Lucifer_ or _Dracula_. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/187 "2016-06-07T06:45:47Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Sansa should be better at it, if the direction of her character arc was wising the fuck up and learning to play the game and being stronger. > [snip] The thing is, Sansa’s still alive. And a lot of the other strong players who looked good at it (Ned, Robb, Stannis, Tywin, etc.) are not. I think she’s done pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/188 "2016-06-07T10:23:34Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Do we know for sure there are any"faceless" assasins beyond Waif and Jaqen? I recall that there were other workers carting bodies around the House Of Black and White but didn’t get the impression that they were necessarily of the same job description. Well, we saw “a” Jacquen drink poison and die right before Arya went blind. But, then, we also saw Arya peel off a bunch of faces from that Jacquen, including an Arya face, but Arya’s face isn’t on the wall, so that entire world is built on quicksand. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/189 "2016-06-07T11:46:13Z")
[quote=“enalzi, post:134, topic:756631”] Does anyone think it’s weird how everyone has started calling the head White Walker, the “Night King”? I heard Benjen mention it but I assumed he learned it from the Three-Eyed Raven. Where did everyone else come up with that name? … [QUOTE] The thing that grates on me is when Walder Frey says something to the effect of “does he remember who got married at the Red Wedding?” No one “in world” has ever called it “The Red Wedding” before, I have only heard fans talking about it that way. Whenever they replay the quote in a preview, it just feels like the fourth wall is being broken. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/190 "2016-06-07T11:57:29Z")
> [@tonyfop](#): > > The thing that grates on me is when Walder Frey says something to the effect of “does he remember who got married at the Red Wedding?” No one “in world” has ever called it “The Red Wedding” before, I have only heard fans talking about it that way. Whenever they replay the quote in a preview, it just feels like the fourth wall is being broken. Within a couple of episodes of the Red Wedding, maybe even in the very next episode, characters were calling it the Red Wedding. I guess you don’t remember it, but I do. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/191 "2016-06-07T11:59:38Z")
> [@tonyfop](#): > > The thing that grates on me is when Walder Frey says something to the effect of “does he remember who got married at the Red Wedding?” No one “in world” has ever called it “The Red Wedding” before, I have only heard fans talking about it that way. Whenever they replay the quote in a preview, it just feels like the fourth wall is being broken. If Walder Frey referred to it as the “Red Wedding,” then someone “in world” has used that name, right? ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/192 "2016-06-07T12:57:04Z")
RE: Sansa I think she was writing to Littlefinger, asking for the Knights of the Vale to join up and help her take back Winterfell. I started to write, “in exchange, she would agree to marry Littlefinger once Winterfell was returned to the Starks,” but then I thought about it and I’m not sure that does enough for Littlefinger’s station in life. I was thinking it would give him some legitimacy toward becoming Warden of the North, but Rickon is (at this point) still alive, and presumably the heir to Winterfell. Jon is a bastard, and nobody knows that Bran is still alive. As far as we’ve seen, inheritance is through the male children, yes? OTOH, it _would_ increase Littlefinger’s station in life. Sansa is just as high-born as her aunt was but less crazy, still (presumably) able to produce an heir for Littlefinger, and much closer to Littlefinger’s true desire of marrying Catelyn than Lysa was. On the gripping hand, the only two cards Sansa really has to play are that she’s a Stark (which hasn’t gotten her too far to this point) and that she’s young and fertile. I think willingly offering herself in exchange for an army would show that she really has learned to play the game. ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/193 "2016-06-07T13:05:10Z")
I didn’t interpret Clegane’s attitude toward the three riders who showed up at their camp as anything more than a recognition of the _type_ of men they were. I just read it as, “I’ve seen guys like these before, and they are up to no good whatsoever.” The Cersei/Olenna scene was fantastic! Those two have been sniping at each other for so long, it was fun to see Olenna just open up both barrels, but in such a way that Cersei had no defense. Olenna was 100% correct in her assessment, and I think Cersei finally realizes it. Cersei still thinks she’s clever enough to get out of this, but I think she’s come to recognize that she has to be a little more cunning than she has in the past, and maybe even get some help. As much as I like Jaime, it was kind of fun watching him get verbally bitch-slapped by the Blackfish. The Lannisters are going to have to learn to adjust to the post-Tywin era they’re living in, and it’s going to be a hard lesson. Gorgeous suit of armor he was wearing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/194 "2016-06-07T13:17:24Z")
If I may direct your attention to [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKPEEIuU0to), from episode 3 of season 4 (Breaker of Chains), you will note that at around 3:20 the farmer who is hosting Arya and the Hound says: “The Red Wedding, they’re calling it” …that’s not the only time the name has been used in the show, it’s just the first one I could find without going to much trouble. That’s four episodes after the Red Wedding (which was in episode 9 of season 3). ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/195 "2016-06-07T13:26:00Z")
Why is everyone assuming the 3 riders that showed up in Septon Ray’s little hippie commune are from the brotherhood without banners? did they say something and I failed to catch it? looked like run of the mill outlaws to me, fans of the Lord of Light, may be, but that’s not proof of anything. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/196 "2016-06-07T13:28:50Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > My assumption was that _the Night King_ was a name from legends that were well known in that society. The same way we all know the names _Lucifer_ or _Dracula_. Which makes sense, but I feel like everyone in Westeros is acting a bit indifferent to the fact that a) Jon Snow just came back from the dead and b) Dracula has been sighted north of the wall with a massive army of zombies. In the earlier seasons, they sent ravens to every kingdom in Westeros warning about how the Lord Commander was attacked by a wight. Since that time, Castle Black came under siege by a huge army of Wildlings, then relieved by Stanos’s army who was subsequently wiped out at Winterfell after executing Mance Rayder King Beyond the Wall, the Watch participated in a catastrophic battle at Hardhome where they evacuated thousands of Wildlings to south of the Wall, murdered their Lord Commander who subsequently came back to life. Yet no mention of any of these events. Even to scoff at their absurdity. I get that the rest of Westeros has their own problems, but I would think these events would be of some interest. Particularly since up until now, the Nights Watch has mostly been a dumping ground for criminals, bastards and disgraced lords, manning largely defunct and understaffed outposts along an ancient engineering oddity, “defending the realm” against small bands of disorganized and undisciplined barbarians. Now suddenly there are battles and rumors of massive armies of the dead (and mostly-deads like Jon Snow). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/197 "2016-06-07T13:29:52Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Why is everyone assuming the 3 riders that showed up in Septon Ray’s little hippie commune are from the brotherhood without banners? did they say something and I failed to catch it? looked like run of the mill outlaws to me, fans of the Lord of Light, may be, but that’s not proof of anything. Either the Hound or Lovejoy said “Brotherhood…” and the guy didn’t deny it and implied it was true. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/198 "2016-06-07T13:32:50Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Why is everyone assuming the 3 riders that showed up in Septon Ray’s little hippie commune are from the brotherhood without banners? did they say something and I failed to catch it? looked like run of the mill outlaws to me, fans of the Lord of Light, may be, but that’s not proof of anything. Clegane says to the Septon “They don’t believe in your Seven, they’re from the Brotherhood, they follow the Red God.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/199 "2016-06-07T13:36:40Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Why is everyone assuming the 3 riders that showed up in Septon Ray’s little hippie commune are from the brotherhood without banners? did they say something and I failed to catch it? looked like run of the mill outlaws to me, fans of the Lord of Light, may be, but that’s not proof of anything. Because they said their catch phrase “the night is dark and full of terrors”. Although they did say it sarcastically. And they were dressed a bit nicer than run of the mill bandits. People are making the assumption that they are BwoB because the only followers of the LoL we have seen are religious-based groups like the BwoB and Red Priestesses like Millisandre and Millisandre 2. Who these guys are is still a mystery. While hardly Boy Scouts, the BwoB are largely a populist movement against the feudal system of lords and bannermen. So it would be out of character for BwoB men to just slaughter a bunch of innocent people to steal some food. OTOH, it’s not clear why they would sarcastically give the LoL greeting or make a pretense of “protecting the people”. I can see if they were trying to cast blame on the Brotherhood, but why bother if you are going to kill everyone anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631/200 "2016-06-07T13:40:27Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Which makes sense, but I feel like everyone in Westeros is acting a bit indifferent to the fact that a) Jon Snow just came back from the dead and b) Dracula has been sighted north of the wall with a massive army of zombies. I get your point, but this isn’t a modern society, it’s kind of a late medieval - pre-renaissance society. Plus it’s a society where dragons are real and magic works, at least on occasion. So perhaps they would not be _quite_ so shocked by supernatural things actually existing as we would. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-07-the-broken-man-6-5-16-show-discussion/756631.md?page=11)