# Game of Thrones 6.08 "No One" 6/12/16 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226 "2016-06-12T23:36:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/101 "2016-06-13T15:28:56Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I also hated HATED the scene with Edmure and the Blackfish. Haven’t people back then heard of the Stockholm Syndrome? And sure, taking an oath to obey your lord is a something some people might have taken seriously, but so is NOT laying down your arms and opening the castle gates to an army made up of people who betrayed and slaughtered your king and a bunch of your people. No reason not to have Edmure convince the Blackfish to take the Brienne deal. Then everyone actually gets something out of it. And the Blackfish dying pointlessly is just more stupidity. I agree that the Tully men should have been smarter than to let Edmure in. Or once Edmure comes in and orders the gates to be open for the Lannisters to come in that at least some of the Tully men should have resisted or protested. But I don’t see why Jaime would send Edmure in to convince the Blackfish to take the Brienne deal, since that would put him in a much worse place than he is now. Jaime wasn’t trying to get a win for everyone, just a win for him in the easiest way so he could get back to Cersei. And I think Jaime said that Brienne had until sundown, and that was after sundown. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/102 "2016-06-13T15:32:02Z")
I really liked this episode for some reason. I haven’t enjoyed the Arya plot but at least this leg is over. My biggest two quibbles - why didn’t the Mountain slaughter the rest of the sparrows in the Red Keep? It seemed out of character to not kill them all. For a society of secret assassins, using stealth and face stealing magic to be invisible, having a giant chase scene through the streets of Braavos was weird. Super stealth mode, until I decide to run you down in a footrace! Tommen is so wussy that it makes my sympathize with Cersei. I don’t like that. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/103 "2016-06-13T15:33:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I agree that the Tully men should have been smarter than to let Edmure in. Or once Edmure comes in and orders the gates to be open for the Lannisters to come in that at least some of the Tully men should have resisted or protested. > > But I don’t see why Jaime would send Edmure in to convince the Blackfish to take the Brienne deal, since that would put him in a much worse place than he is now. Jaime wasn’t trying to get a win for everyone, just a win for him in the easiest way so he could get back to Cersei. And I think Jaime said that Brienne had until sundown, and that was after sundown. How is a massacre smarter or a better solution for anyone? the Tully men are in a much better position under Edmure than they were under the Blackfish, they survived. Jamie sent Edmure in because he realized the Blackfish was too stubborn to surrender even when it was the obvious thing to do. Surrendering the castle WAS a better solution for everyone, the only one who wanted to go down fighting for pointless reasons was the Blackfish, and he got his wish anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/104 "2016-06-13T15:38:06Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > You’re glossing over the whole point here. GoT is, or at least used to be, enough better than a normal TV show that it doesn’t depend on this kind of crap. In fact, at its best, it teases you with tropes and then goes another way. > > The whole Arya plotline felt like the plot from a much worse show (albeit one with GoT’s production values and acting), which is why people keep both expecting and hoping that in fact we’re being misled into assuming that the obvious cliche is going on, when in fact something more interesting is going on. But nope, turn off your brain and turn on your knowledge-of-tv-cliches, the obvious thing happened. Now now now, we just need to > [@Shakester](#): > > Suck it up, and realize that Rigamarole and Shakester were > [@Shakester](#): > > 100% correct about the Arya situation, and are therefore better human beings than we are. I do like that Tommen took away the Trial By Combat from Cersie. Makes the situation more interesting in that she is now going to have to up her game. Hopefully with wildfire. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/105 "2016-06-13T15:42:04Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Anyone get a Terminator vibe from teh Waif?.. Definitely - a little scary, but not what I’d expect from a Faceless Man. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I think that Qyburn’s spies found Tyrion’s location. With Varys gone from King’s Landing, the intelligence apparatus was also in shambles… As I’ve said before, I suspect that Maester Mengele is mistaken as to just how much he’s taken over Varys’s network of “little birds.” Candy and courtesy go only so far. Most if not all of them have remained loyal - and informative - to Varys, I’ll wager. > [@Quimby](#): > > …The Scene with Tyrion drinking and joking with the others was very cute… Yeah, I liked that, too. Missandei has never been more appealing. What did she call Grey Worm? Some affectionate nickname? > [@Oakminster](#): > > …Speaking of dying, I think we’re about to be all out of King once again. If Cersei won’t put a hit out on her son, someone else will do the needful. Is there _anybody_ in Westeros with a halfway-decent lawful claim to the Iron Throne when/if Tommen snuffs it? > [@Loach](#): > > …Since there has been no need for anti-aircraft weapons I’m thinking one fire breathing dragon could take out a bunch of wooden ships. Yeah, it looked like Dany’s ride was probably off to visit the harbor for that very purpose. > [@TonySinclair](#): > > Seems like [blindness training is] something all the apprentices would have gone through. Agreed. > [@Shakester](#): > > … [Arya’s] not No One, but she will certainly be serving the Red God on her mission. The Faceless Folks are basically a more refined version of the [Thuggee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee): murder is part of their religion. And as Melisandre prophesised about Arya several seasons ago, Arya is going to be the death of a lot of people. The Red God is pleased with this. Probably the best fanwank under the circumstances. I could see them playing it either way: the FM will still be coming for Arya because it was _her_ name on the list, and a person having been named, that person must die; OR they’ll accept the Waif’s death in lieu of Arya’s and let her go propitiate the Faceless God in some of the nicest castles of Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/106 "2016-06-13T15:48:58Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I would have liked to have seen the fight between Arya and the Waif. I don’t see how the Battle of the Bastards can go the Stark’s way. The Knights of the Vale. > [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > The music drowned it out and I couldn’t hear: what exactly did Qyburn say to Cersei? “Is it just a rumour, or something much more?” “More. Much More” ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/107 "2016-06-13T16:01:56Z")
Arya was only blind because she prematurely stole a face off the wall and wore it to assassinate someone she had a personal vendetta against. Based on the (stupid, nonsensical, incoherent) Faceless Man philosophy, I’d say that it’s very unusual for one of the students to do this. So I’m guessing the Waif never had any blind fighting training, since it’s unlikely that she would have gone so far off-book from her training to end up blind in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/108 "2016-06-13T16:02:29Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Now now now, we just need to > and realize that Rigamarole and Shakester were > > and are therefore better human beings than we are. Hey now, I’m not the one who wrote a ten thousand word essay about how I’m much smarter than everyone else because I got it totally wrong. If I _had_ got it wrong, I’d either shut up about it or say “whoopsie” and move on with my life. But that’s me, and apparently I’m a retard for getting it right. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/109 "2016-06-13T16:06:58Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > How is a massacre smarter or a better solution for anyone? the Tully men are in a much better position under Edmure than they were under the Blackfish, they survived. Jamie sent Edmure in because he realized the Blackfish was too stubborn to surrender even when it was the obvious thing to do. Surrendering the castle WAS a better solution for everyone, the only one who wanted to go down fighting for pointless reasons was the Blackfish, and he got his wish anyways. A massacre wouldn’t be good, but they could have not led Edmure in and just have the two year siege like the Blackfish wanted, no massacre would result from that at least any time soon. If the Blackfish was able to assemble enough loyal men to take over the castle, I would think those men would have enough loyalty to the Tullys to be willing to at least do some fighting. I’m assuming that people in general aren’t huge fans of the Freys, since I wouldn’t think the Blackfish would be able to assemble enough men and take it over otherwise. Maybe I’m reading it wrong, and the knights and common men don’t care one way or the other about who is in charge of a castle. They’ve shown that loyalty to a house isn’t everything, but I think it’s also not nothing. No blood being shed is obviously the best in the short term, but I just would think that some men would have thought that the Tullys being in charge instead of the Freys would be better in the longer term. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/110 "2016-06-13T16:45:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > A massacre wouldn’t be good, but they could have not led Edmure in and just have the two year siege like the Blackfish wanted, no massacre would result from that at least any time soon. If the Blackfish was able to assemble enough loyal men to take over the castle, I would think those men would have enough loyalty to the Tullys to be willing to at least do some fighting. I’m assuming that people in general aren’t huge fans of the Freys, since I wouldn’t think the Blackfish would be able to assemble enough men and take it over otherwise. I take from the Blackfish’s question to Jaime (“Do you have two years?” or whatever it was) that his strategy was to basically hope that the Lannister/Frey army outside the castle would have something else come up and have to leave by the time the defenders ran out of supplies. And we, the viewers, know that the Lannisters have numerous other fish to fry at the moment. I’m not sure that the people actually under the siege have any way of knowing that - from their perspective, they’re the last holdouts of a war that’s already over, and they can’t expect any help from the outside. From my understanding of pre-modern warfare it was pretty common for besieged garrisons or cities to be given an ultimatum at some point that this was their last chance to surrender or there would be no quarter given when the position finally fell. I feel like Edmure made a reasonable decision under the circumstances, given the threats to his men and his family. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/111 "2016-06-13T16:51:56Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > …I don’t see how the Battle of the Bastards can go the Stark’s way. > [@Loach](#): > > The Knights of the Vale… Very likely, plus I’m guessing the sardonic guy who brought Rickon to Winterfell might have a well-timed mid-battle defection back to the cause of House Stark. Revenge is a dish best served cold. > [@Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](#): > > Did anyone else feel your heart sink a little at the moment Tyrion revealed that he’d like to retire to a country estate and become a vintner? There was a touch of melancholy in the way he said it that seemed to presage that he won’t live to realize that ambition. I had the same thought. > [@adaher](#): > > …The only thing keeping him with one toe in possible redemption land is his affection for Brienne and his friendship with Bronn, who is a shockingly good influence on the Lannisters despite the fact he’s got few redeeming qualities himself other than being funny… Bronn is also a helluva skilled (if unchivalric) fighter. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Finished watching the episode. Gotta love the smirks on Cersei and Qyburn’s faces after her “I choose violence” line… Best line of the show. And FrankenMountain’s eyes… brrrr! > [@SenorBeef](#): > > …And on the other side of it, why would the masters agree to stop funding the sons of the harpy if they had intended to attack anyway? They would’ve benefitted by continuing that and having the city weaker for their attack… To lull Tyrion into a sense of complacency? Or maybe the three envoys really _did_ buy Tyrion’s seven-years-until-abolition policy, and intended to recommend it to their superiors. They might’ve given orders to the Sons of the Harpy to lay off in the meantime, but were overruled once they got back home. The fleet arrives to more emphatically let Tyrion know the deal’s off. > [@Quimby](#): > > …Separate from all that, Jaime’s line ,“The things we do for love” had to be a call back to the first episode right? Oh, unquestionably. That’s what he said just before pushing Bran out the window. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Joffrey was hated in King’s Landing. I don’t think there would be enough information in Braavos for him to necessarily have any particular reputation. Propaganda was always effective in an age of limited communication. If some playwright decided to make Cersei the hero—either intentionally or just because he thought it made for a compelling story—there’s no widespread media technology to debunk it. Compelling indeed - and a way for the showrunners to remind us there’s more than one way to tell a story. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > …Jaime is certainly an inconsistent character, but Cersei brings out the worst in him and Brienne brings out better things… Nicely put. > [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > One theory I’ve heard on this is that Operation Scorched Sparrow will go wrong and end up with Tommen being toasted, thus fulfilling the Maggy the Frog’s prophecy… Ouch. That would _really_ ruin Cersei’s day. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > …Wildfire would be a terrible idea for someone like Tywin who would want to regain control from the Sparrows and rule over a functioning city, but Cersei is increasingly defensive and seeking revenge. And she has repeatedly said over the seasons about how she’d burn the city to the ground and burn whoever to protect her children. It seemed metaphorical, but she increasingly might mean it for real… Definitely. She’s desperate, not as clever as she imagines, and of course has already said she’s willing to “choose violence.” > [@Mosier](#): > > Arya was blatant and obvious last episode, throwing money around and acting like a big shot in an attempt to draw the waif out and lead her to the “trap” where she had her sword in the dark room. She just underestimated the waif and got wrecked before she could pull it off. Remember, the waif has no idea Arya even owns a sword, let alone that she’s been trained by the First Sword of Bravos… I was thinking it would’ve been a better move for Ayra to let the Waif get _almost_ close enough to attack her with her dagger, and only then reveal Needle and kill her with it. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/112 "2016-06-13T18:30:49Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > I take from the Blackfish’s question to Jaime (“Do you have two years?” or whatever it was) that his strategy was to basically hope that the Lannister/Frey army outside the castle would have something else come up and have to leave by the time the defenders ran out of supplies. And we, the viewers, know that the Lannisters have numerous other fish to fry at the moment. I’m not sure that the people actually under the siege have any way of knowing that - from their perspective, they’re the last holdouts of a war that’s already over, and they can’t expect any help from the outside. > > From my understanding of pre-modern warfare it was pretty common for besieged garrisons or cities to be given an ultimatum at some point that this was their last chance to surrender or there would be no quarter given when the position finally fell. I feel like Edmure made a reasonable decision under the circumstances, given the threats to his men and his family. Yes, and Jamie was basically making a Rains of Castamere threat to Edmure in the tend. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/113 "2016-06-13T18:33:24Z")
Did anyone else notice that the order to take Trial by Combat off the table came after the Mountain ripped the sparrows head off. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/114 "2016-06-13T18:42:16Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This was Arya’s plan: > > 1. Betray the magical assassins that founded a town in their home town, and know they’re coming after you. She decided to not sublimate her sense of self, and not join a cult. That’s not a flaw in a plan, that’s a good thing. > [@](#): > > 1. Somehow acquire large bags of money even though you have no possessions except for your sword and your clothes That’s a particularly goofy nit to pic. Arya’s been training to be a sneaky fuck for years. She obviously stole the money, even when she hands the larger bag to the captain, she snatches it back before leaving. She’s fast, bold, and clever, and specifically trained in deception. So that’s why we didn’t need a scene of her stealing the money. > [@](#): > > 1. Oh, by the way, that sword that you made such a big deal out of keeping, of previously having always kept it with you - now that you’re being hunted by assassins, don’t carry that around with you. Make sure you’re unarmed. A single young girl disappears into a crowd. A young girl with a sword is a really, really, noticeable thing. > [@](#): > > 1. Make sure you walk around town as obviously as possible. Be loud, be out in the open. Declare to everyone in earshot that you’re a Westerosi girl with money who needs to get out of Braavos fast. The faceless men aren’t all-knowing, and a city of what, 20 or 30 thousand people will allow you to move pretty freely. Skulking around and acting like you have a secret is certainly much worse. > [@](#): > > 1. Don’t be wary of strangers approaching you, even though you’re with a group of assassins who can appear as anyone Everything was finally coming together, she was heading home. She let her guard down, and I’m guessing this will show her that she can’t do that. > [@](#): > > 1. Especially don’t be wary of a stranger [who has a face that we’ve specifically seen you examining](http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5759b11897e9e1fc7af2b710/master/w_690,c_limit/got-arya-old-face.gif) that is in possession of the faceless men. "Where have I seen her before? [stabby-stabby] “Oh, right.” > [@](#): > > But of course Arya must’ve done this all on purpose as part of her brilliant plan, since she apparently did her best to bait the waif into attacking her in that instance, so what was her plan after that point? Her plan, was clearly to leave the city on that boat. She stashed her sword, with the hope that she could run there if chased and choppy, choppy, darky stabby. > [@](#): > > 1. Make sure you give a trained assassin a free shot at you and take some probably mortal wounds in the stomach and hope that you somehow find an opening to escape in the middle of getting murdered by an armed opponent who has always defeated you in combat She wasn’t giving the assassin a free shot. She got stabbed by accident. She only survived because the Waif decided to painfully stab her, turning the knife, and then show her face, just to let it sink in that it was the Waif that was killing Arya. It was the Waif’s hubris that let Arya live, not some plan of hers. > [@](#): > > 1. Ah, yes, so everything is going according to plan. You took some horrible wounds and jumped into a river. Let’s hope you don’t drown because you’re in such bad shape. Oh, but don’t only not drown, but slyly swim far underwater for long distances - something challenging enough to do for a casual swimmer who doesn’t have a gaping stomach wound - so that the waif thinks you drowned Obviously the Waif didn’t think she drowned, she kept looking for her. Again, it wasn’t Arya’s plan, Arya legitimately escaped, after letting her guard down, only because the Waif was essentially toying with her food. > [@](#): > > 1. Hope that none of the hundreds of people who were gaping at you on the streets of Braavos tells anyone about the bleeding girl desperately making her way through the streets, or that anyone follows the trail of blood Again, this wasn’t a brilliant plan, it was a frantic escape. That’s what you’re missing here. > [@](#): > > 1. Go backstage and hide out and hope that the actress who barely knows you happens to notice at the right moment that you’re hiding in a closet before you bleed to death Better to run onstage? Seriously, you’re just reaching here, trying to pad the list. > [@](#): > > 1. Hope that she reacts with sympathy and takes you in, rather than freaks out, and oh, that she has the secret doctor skills to patch up a set of gaping stomach wounds She was desperate. The doctor skills were, I’d assume, so that they didn’t have to waste the time introducing a new doctor character for the waif to stabby-stabby. > [@](#): > > 1. Hope that the faceless men don’t find you at the residence of a woman you know they’ve marked for death and will be coming for It was a desperate gambit. And it worked, for a time. Until the Waif tracked her down. > [@](#): > > 1. Hope that when the waif finds you there that you aren’t passed out from the injuries, and she doesn’t simply slit your throat in your sleep. Instead, despite being drugged, count on waking up at the first sign of the presence of a stealthy, trained assassin It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. > [@](#): > > 1. Fuck that woman who took you in and patched you up, she’s gotta die as part of this plan It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. > [@](#): > > 1. Use your wolverine-like healing powers to not only survive wounds very few people could survive in this time period, but recover and be on your feet within a few hours We don’t know how long it was. It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. Also, she was on morphene. She obviously wasn’t healed, she just was full of happy juice. > [@](#): > > 1. Ok, so the Waif followed you there. She’s fallen into your sly “I’m going to make her find me while I’m sleeping and recovering” trap. So you must have some sort of badass plan to ambush her, right? No, it’s time to parkour across Braavos like Jason fucking Borne with your gaping stomach wounds to escape It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. > [@](#): > > 1. Count on the Waif slowly following you like the terminator so you can lead her to your secret ambush room, because what we know about stealthy physically adept assassins is that they move slowly and obviously and don’t actually seem to care about killing you It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. And the Waif died, because she made it personal. And after Arya got away, she was in danger of being erased herself, if Jaqen found out how she flummoxed it because of her personal feelings. > [@](#): > > 1. Where you’ve got a rock-solid unbeatable plan of… turning off the lights and defeating a woman who has always kicked your ass in physical combat and probably has the same blindness training as you if it’s part of the faceless men curriculum, only this time you’re already very wounded. It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. Also, she stashed her weapon where it wouldn’t draw attention to her, and where she would have a good chance to win a fight against the superior Waif. That part was a plan, but it was just a place to try to get to, if shit turned bad. > [@](#): > > 1. Finish off the Waif and then go back to the place of the assassins with the mysterious, inconsistent code who marked you for death and hope that they now will let you go even though they’ve said (even during this very scene) that once a name is given, the person must die. Substitutions are allowed. And she needed to have a heart to heart with Jaqen, else, he’d send _no one_ else after her. > [@](#): > > So what you’re actually defending is that sequence of events was obvious, and acceptable writing, and that anyone who sought an alternate explanation and thought we may have been being mislead is a “conspiracy theorist” > > And what are you gloating about? “Huh guys, see? I know you thought that since this show has always been pretty smart in the past, it would be smart now, and the incredibly dumb and inconsistent character writing you’re seeing must be some sort of mislead. But no, it was actually just incredibly dumb! Haha! Don’t you feel dumb now for your conspiracy theories?!” > > The fact that you were so convinced that it wasn’t a mislead actually reflects poorly on your sophistication as a viewer. The whole reason that so many people thought there must be some sort of mislead is because the show has a consistent track record of not having characters act so wildly inconsistently, from relying on strings of ridiculous coincidences and bad planning working out like that. You are apparently oblivious to that and could not appreciate the good writing before, and apparently cannot recognize the bad writing this was, and actually gloat about it, thinking that everyone else somehow got their comeuppance for assuming the show didn’t suddenly take a dramatic turn for the dumber. Again, you are just not understanding what happened, and it’s creating this issue with you. This wasn’t Moriarty sculpting Holmes into an elaborate trap. She tried to get off the island, got sloppy, barely escaped, and managed to make it back to where she stashed her sword and could fight where she had an advantage against the Waif. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/115 "2016-06-13T18:52:22Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Hey now, I’m not the one… No, but you were the one to come in here and say, “Neener neener neener!” so,…good for you. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/116 "2016-06-13T19:05:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > She decided to not sublimate her sense of self, and not join a cult. That’s not a flaw in a plan, that’s a good thing. > > That’s a particularly goofy nit to pic. Arya’s been training to be a sneaky fuck for years. She obviously stole the money, even when she hands the larger bag to the captain, she snatches it back before leaving. She’s fast, bold, and clever, and specifically trained in deception. So that’s why we didn’t need a scene of her stealing the money. > > A single young girl disappears into a crowd. A young girl with a sword is a really, really, noticeable thing. > > The faceless men aren’t all-knowing, and a city of what, 20 or 30 thousand people will allow you to move pretty freely. Skulking around and acting like you have a secret is certainly much worse. > > Everything was finally coming together, she was heading home. She let her guard down, and I’m guessing this will show her that she can’t do that. > > "Where have I seen her before? [stabby-stabby] “Oh, right.” > > Her plan, was clearly to leave the city on that boat. She stashed her sword, with the hope that she could run there if chased and choppy, choppy, darky stabby. > > She wasn’t giving the assassin a free shot. She got stabbed by accident. She only survived because the Waif decided to painfully stab her, turning the knife, and then show her face, just to let it sink in that it was the Waif that was killing Arya. It was the Waif’s hubris that let Arya live, not some plan of hers. > > Obviously the Waif didn’t think she drowned, she kept looking for her. Again, it wasn’t Arya’s plan, Arya legitimately escaped, after letting her guard down, only because the Waif was essentially toying with her food. > > Again, this wasn’t a brilliant plan, it was a frantic escape. That’s what you’re missing here. > > Better to run onstage? Seriously, you’re just reaching here, trying to pad the list. > > She was desperate. The doctor skills were, I’d assume, so that they didn’t have to waste the time introducing a new doctor character for the waif to stabby-stabby. > > It was a desperate gambit. And it worked, for a time. Until the Waif tracked her down. > > It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. > > It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. > > We don’t know how long it was. It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. Also, she was on morphene. She obviously wasn’t healed, she just was full of happy juice. > > It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. > > It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. And the Waif died, because she made it personal. And after Arya got away, she was in danger of being erased herself, if Jaqen found out how she flummoxed it because of her personal feelings. > > It wasn’t a plan, it was a frantic escape. Also, she stashed her weapon where it wouldn’t draw attention to her, and where she would have a good chance to win a fight against the superior Waif. That part was a plan, but it was just a place to try to get to, if shit turned bad. > > Substitutions are allowed. And she needed to have a heart to heart with Jaqen, else, he’d send _no one_ else after her. > > Again, you are just not understanding what happened, and it’s creating this issue with you. This wasn’t Moriarty sculpting Holmes into an elaborate trap. She tried to get off the island, got sloppy, barely escaped, and managed to make it back to where she stashed her sword and could fight where she had an advantage against the Waif. If you’re not seeing all the red herrings placed by the writers and so far none have been explained away, you’re not paying attention. Please don’t tell me you think that was a well written ending to the Arya/Waif arc. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/117 "2016-06-13T19:19:00Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > If you’re not seeing all the red herrings placed by the writers and so far none have been explained away, you’re not paying attention. Specifically? > [@](#): > > Please don’t tell me you think that was a well written ending to the Arya/Waif arc. I think it’s fine. But the issues raised above are certainly based on assuming that the whole thing was a chessgame where the Waif fell into Arya’s trap. It wasn’t. She survived because the Waif wanted to make her be afraid and suffer. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/118 "2016-06-13T19:27:56Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Specifically? > > I think it’s fine. But the issues raised above are certainly based on assuming that the whole thing was a chessgame where the Waif fell into Arya’s trap. It wasn’t. She survived because the Waif wanted to make her be afraid and suffer. Simple as that. I’ll agree with you on the trap part, but the rest (mystery money, lackadaisical attitude, knowing the old women’s face, no needle, and worst of all the quick recovery from seemly fatal wounds) were setups. I don’t care how high you are on opium, it doesn’t give you the comfort and strength to overcome those kind of wounds. Until they explain some of it (and it may come), I think it was weak writing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/119 "2016-06-13T19:35:05Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > I’ll agree with you on the trap part, but the rest (mystery money, lackadaisical attitude, knowing the old women’s face, no needle, and worst of all the quick recovery from seemly fatal wounds) were setups. I don’t care how high you are on opium, it doesn’t give you the comfort and strength to overcome those kind of wounds. My take, as I said earlier is that the money is a non-issue. She’s been trained in stealth and deception, she can easily steal the money. Why bother to show it? Would you wonder if you saw the hound with a horse after we’d last seen him walking? He has the skills to get them, so you accept he got them, somehow. The calm demeanor, I’d assume, is that she’s genuinely happy, and isn’t trying to look like someone skulking around. If she’s in a dark cloak, whispering to the captain, she’d stand out more. She had a second from when the old woman talked until she was slashed, not that unrealistic to take a moment to recognize a face you saw once, weeks ago, in a wall alcove. She stashed needle because a young girl with a sword is weird as fuck, and completely noteworthy. People would talk about it. It would make her easier to track. So she kept it in her dark hidey-hole until she was ready to get on the boat. As for the milk of the poppy, yeah, perhaps, but we don’t know how long she was in the actress’ home. It might have been days, or a week. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226/120 "2016-06-13T19:37:33Z")
> [@treis](#): > > The whole Faceless Men thing was ill thought out and illogical. And in my experience, cutting off someone’s face and wearing it over your own doesn’t really keep people from noticing you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-08-no-one-6-12-16-show-discussion/757226.md?page=7)