# Game of Thrones 6.09 "Battle of the Bastards" 6/19/16 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789 "2016-06-19T17:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/261 "2016-06-21T14:04:04Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Littlefinger first took his Army to Mole’s Town near the Wall. I see no reason they wouldn’t have taken a sea route to get there. So the Moat Cailin issue is a red herring. Still, plenty of time for a Bolton ally to send a raven, but did he have allies in the east? I imagine his forces were concentrated at Winterfell, not spread throughout the North. He hadn’t much time to get a real grip on the North, this battle was supposed to increase his influence, but he failed. I think Littlefinger was the only one to travel to Mole’s Town, where he told Sansa the Vale army was at Moat Cailin. Any chance Varys heads to f’n Dorne? When he left, he sounded unsure of the safety of the trip - like he was going to meet with some Lannister hating psycho hose beasts. Where else would he be going that would put him in so much jeopardy? ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/262 "2016-06-21T14:11:09Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m pretty sure Sansa didn’t think they were going to have a tickle fight. Yeah, but there is a reason why a veteran reacts totally different to the prospect of war than a patriotic volunteer. Sansa might have known intellectually what it meant but she might not have understood it. A battle was still mostly abstract to her. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/263 "2016-06-21T14:17:38Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > She was on an arc of growth, but not redemption. Sansa doesn’t need any redemption. > > And in fact, making her less likeable is precisely part of her arc, and I find it very satisfying. > > I already said, however, that her hiding vital information (assuming it was supposed to be deliberate rather than Littlefinger arriving just in time) is quite stupid. I haven’t forgiven Sansa for allowing herself to be a pawn in Cersei’s game in season 1. She ran to Cersei giving her time to plan a way to have Ned removed from power. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/264 "2016-06-21T14:17:54Z")
I think the reason Sansa didn’t tell Jon about Littlefinger is no more complicated than because anyone she told would have been like “Bitch, is you crazy?!?!?!”. Trusting in Littlefinger to come and save you would not have been something the others would have taken well, they would have probably immediately started planning for his sudden but inevitable betrayal. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/265 "2016-06-21T14:23:56Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I haven’t forgiven Sansa for allowing herself to be a pawn in Cersei’s game in season 1. She ran to Cersei giving her time to plan a way to have Ned removed from power. Wasn’t it different in the show? [Ned told Cersei](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucB4UrhI-3w)what he knew and was going to do. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/266 "2016-06-21T14:27:37Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > We don’t know that with certainty. Bolton was appointed Warden of the North to replace a traitor, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t hereditary. Usually the title goes to the house with the largest forces in the area. Nominally it allows the warden to legally call up armies to combat a threat, where the king/Queen’s distance would be a factor. Stark forces held the most combat troops, and I would guess that Bolton held the second largest. Basically its a diplomatic position that takes into account reality on the ground, had Bolton absorbed the remaining Stark household troops, then its a very good chance that Ramsay would have been confirmed, or at the very least concidered. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/267 "2016-06-21T14:32:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > She was on an arc of growth, but not redemption. Sansa doesn’t need any redemption. > > And in fact, making her less likeable is precisely part of her arc, and I find it very satisfying. How soon we forget season 1 Sansa… She refuses to stand up for her sister to Joffrey, lets Arya look like a liar, leads to her own wolf’s demise. She goes to Cersei and tells her Ned’s plans which leads directly to the Lannisters seizing power. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/268 "2016-06-21T14:38:35Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > She goes to Cersei and tells her Ned’s plans which leads directly to the Lannisters seizing power. I’m almost entirely certain this did not happen in the show. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/269 "2016-06-21T14:42:48Z")
It did not, Ned told Cersei his plans. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/270 "2016-06-21T14:43:36Z")
My mistake! I have reported the post and asked for that line to be removed. (surprising, since that is a major part of her character) ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/271 "2016-06-21T14:48:29Z")
Do we know how many Bolton troops are holding the Dreadfort? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/272 "2016-06-21T14:50:44Z")
I doubt it matters at this point, there are no Boltons. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/273 "2016-06-21T14:52:12Z")
Good question, most likely just a small garrison as Winterfell was the focus of the battle. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/274 "2016-06-21T14:56:34Z")
If it’s a fort, someone’s gonna want it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/275 "2016-06-21T15:00:04Z")
Sure, but the defenders have nothing to fight for. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/276 "2016-06-21T15:04:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Sure, but the defenders have nothing to fight for. You don’t think one of them would step up to claim to be the rightful leader? I would think that since the Dreadfort was Bolton headquarters it would have been left well defended. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/277 "2016-06-21T15:05:38Z")
What, like “I have this castle so I’m lord now”? No I don’t think that’s a thing that would happen. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/278 "2016-06-21T15:13:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …I also think the show went out of its way to show us that something was interceding to save Jon. His charge against hundreds of longbowmen should have been almost instantly fatal, but they kept showing the arrows falling all around him without him being touched. In the initial melee, the horses all veered around him and he was left alone, and even he looked confused by that… When I saw this, I was reminded of the scene from _Highlander_ in which everyone avoids Connor MacLeod during the battle and he exclaims in confusion, “Why won’t anyone fight me?!” ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/279 "2016-06-21T15:23:47Z")
There’s also Storm’s End (Baratheon) and Dragonstone? (used to be Targ, then Stannis) left basically undefended at this point. Plus Harrenhal. (technically Littlefinger’s) Giant castles seem to be a dime a dozen. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/280 "2016-06-21T15:59:27Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > We don’t know that with certainty. Bolton was appointed Warden of the North to replace a traitor, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t hereditary. It’s never been demonstrated on the show that it was hereditary at all. We’ve never seen the title officially pass from father to son (or daughter). Roose Bolton was appointed to replace Ned, and Littlefinger was appointed to replace Roose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789.md?page=15)