# Game of Thrones 6.09 "Battle of the Bastards" 6/19/16 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789 "2016-06-19T17:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/361 "2016-06-22T21:52:21Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Yeah, but as Willard noted, Kilgore walked around like he just knew nothing was going to happen to him. Jon Snow was shitting himself from the time he saw the mounted troops upon him until his head poked up out of the scrum. Well, Kilgore wasn’t targeted specifically. Jon, otoh, realised that all this death approaching was aimed at him. And I think he looked like a truly valiant man - fully aware of the situation, resigned to his fate, yet determined to not go quietly. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/362 "2016-06-22T22:39:41Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Well, Kilgore wasn’t targeted specifically. Jon, otoh, realised that all this death approaching was aimed at him. And I think he looked like a truly valiant man - fully aware of the situation, resigned to his fate, yet determined to not go quietly. Yeah, it was a good moment in an otherwise mess of an episode. When he took off his belt and scabbard my wife asked “why,” I said “He’s not expecting to ever get to put his sword away again.” It might have been a good “WHA!COOL!” moment to have one Bolton man really want to get Jon (should have been Karstark) and reach him first and have Jon chop the legs off the horse with his Valyrian blade…and THEN have the opposing calvary smash up. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/363 "2016-06-22T23:25:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s not the fact that Jon survived, but that he was apparently miraculously saved over and over by a fluke in a short time that makes it look he was under some kind of supernatural protection. I don’t see it. I see the horrors of war where everyone who walks away had to escape countless random occurrences in order to do so - just like every other battle in all of history. > [@](#): > > The others who survived weren’t shown dodging death repeatedly like that. The others aren’t the main character of the story. There isn’t much magic in this show that isn’t completely obvious and blatant. If Snow survived because of magic, I suspect someone else would have noticed. Every time there’s been magic, casual observers have all crapped their pants in amazement. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/364 "2016-06-23T00:00:12Z")
> [@troub](#): > > Maybe. But Tormund made it too. I thought I saw the other men actively protecting Tormund in one sequence (during the ring-of-shields part), pulling him back from harm’s way. That takes _some_ of the luck out, at least during that stage of the battle. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/365 "2016-06-23T01:54:02Z")
> [@troub](#): > > …What if it’s an ice giant, and their thawed-out little corner of it is actually a precarious exception? I thought it was interesting that Arya mentioned this season about wanting to see what’s west of Westeros. What _is_ west of Westeros?.. I think Essos is west of Westeros; the real question is there anything in between them other than ocean. Even if “Planetos” is the about the same size as Earth it doesn’t mean it has an equivalent “New World” to balance out the “Old World” of Westeros & Essos. Or maybe it’s just in the _Southern_ hemisphere. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > …Probably before her trial, since she knows how screwed she is. I imagine it would have to be before her trial unless she plans on taking out everyone with here. I doubt she’s going be tried in absentia so Mountainstein or no Mountainstein she _will_ be transferred from the Red Keep to the Great Sept.; that alone should be interesting to see. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/366 "2016-06-23T02:09:08Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > But yeah, personally I don’t really care nor want to know if Westeros is on a parallel Earth, a lost colony of a future Earth, an early version of pre-history Earth, a post apocalyptic Earth with dramatically different geology, inside a spaceship, part of a VR simulation, all in GRRMs imagination or whatever because that would ultimately cheapen the story at this point. Maybe the First Men were ancient space colonists. That doesn’t means I want them showing up with ray-guns in Season 8. > [@troub](#): > > I agree about the ray-guns in Season 8. But as to the nature of the planet…I do often wonder if it’ll be significant as to what’s going on. From the very beginning, we know something is _really_ weird about how their seasons work. They seem to have an earth-like day/night cycle, but erratic and unpredictable seasons. Whether that means anything by itself or is just the way things are, or more likely, if it’s tied into the White Walkers/“magic cycle” that seems to be happening…though we don’t know if the WW _cause_ Winter or just take advantage of it. > > Anyway, I’ve always thought about and wondered if there’s anything we can suspect about, say, the size of the planet based on what we know. How big is it? What’s on the rest of the planet? What if it’s an ice giant, and their thawed-out little corner of it is actually a precarious exception? I thought it was interesting that Arya mentioned this season about wanting to see what’s west of Westeros. What _is_ west of Westeros? Was that just a throwaway line, or an indication that we’re going to find out more about the planet? If we do find out more about the planet, what’s the likelihood at this point in the story that it’ll just be additional useless background information rather than a significant end-game revelation? New theory: Bran is a teenager on late 21st-century Earth with a degenerative disease that caused him to lose the use of his legs. He wants to grow up to be a nanobot surgeon and robotics researcher to fix his issue. And the whole world we’ve seen is a VR/computer simulation he plays with in his spare time after school. In the finale, after whatever catastrophic shit has gone down and most of the characters are dead, we cut to modern day as Bran is shown taking off his VR headset. From the other room, we hear Bran’s mom yelling: “Bran, you need to stop spending all your time with that damn game! Have you even done your nanobots homework?” Bran rolls his eyes and gets back to another computer terminal with a barely-started essay paper on it. The End. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/367 "2016-06-23T04:07:48Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I think Essos is west of Westeros… No. In a masterstroke of cartographic subtlety, Essos is east of Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/368 "2016-06-23T04:14:07Z")
I think you missed my point. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/369 "2016-06-23T04:19:38Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I don’t see it. I see the horrors of war where everyone who walks away had to escape countless random occurrences in order to do so - just like every other battle in all of history. Of course, but they don’t do it within a single minute. This scene was almost cartoonish in the number of different threats Jon dodged. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/370 "2016-06-23T04:19:41Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > So any reason why they didn’t give the giant a club or a big shield? Even half a tree? > > Seems he could do a lot with any of the above. > > Fun episode but Littlefinger seems incredibly blessed and Dany now has a formidable air force in a medieval setting. What can possibly stop her? So long as they remain air born then the dragons are untouchable. She doesn’t need much of an army. > > Land and get army provisioned. Advance with your three dragons and reign death from above. Send army in to mop up. Pretty much the formula for Targ conquest; “we’ve got dragons and you don’t”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/371 "2016-06-23T04:22:02Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > No. In a masterstroke of cartographic subtlety, Essos is east of Westeros. And not also west of it? You think the world is flat? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/372 "2016-06-23T04:55:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > And not also west of it? You think the world is flat? There’s no reason to believe that their known world is but a tiny fraction of whatever is out there (or to a lesser extent, that it _is_ even spherical, but that does present other issues). We know there’s at least one other massive and almost completely unexplored land mass, Sothoryos, to the southeast of Essos. That’s a pretty good indication that they don’t really know much about what’s in their own world, and there could be quite a lot more to it than we know of. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/373 "2016-06-23T07:23:19Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Of course, but they don’t do it within a single minute. This scene was almost cartoonish in the number of different threats Jon dodged. I had the same idea, until he started getting crushed under the pile of dead bodies. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/374 "2016-06-23T08:32:50Z")
I have to agree that when I first watched the episode, during the initial sequence, with Jon all alone on the field of battle with hundreds of arrows firing directly at him and only him, I started thinking that the Lord of Light was actively protecting him. That was followed up by the miraculous saves where every time someone tried to flank him they got taken out by someone else. I definitely got a deus ex machina vibe from the whole thing. (In the original sense, not the modern pejorative one.) ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/375 "2016-06-23T08:34:00Z")
I agree it was just the chaos of battle. Everyone who survived caught some lucky breaks but we were mostly following a single protagonist. Like the multiverse theories, there are many stories where Jon takes an arrow to the eye in the first seconds of engagement but that isn’t this particular story. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/376 "2016-06-23T08:41:02Z")
Missed the edit window: It wasn’t necessarily the first volley of arrows that was aimed just at Jon that got me thinking deus ex machina, but the rains of arrows when both cavalries had engaged that really got me thinking it. I remember thinking at the time that if someone analyzed the video in slow-mo, there’d be examples of cgi arrows miraculously changing direction around Jon. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/377 "2016-06-23T08:55:20Z")
Hm, maybe the Gods take charge in turns and right now their KOALEMOS is blessing his flock - which explains why Arya and Jon cannot die. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/378 "2016-06-23T09:35:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > And not also west of it? You think the world is flat? Very possibly. That’s not uncommon in fantasy settings. In fact, in such settings I never assume that the world is a ball orbiting a sun, assuming that it’s of any relevance (it is in GoT because of the weird cycle of seasons). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/379 "2016-06-23T09:37:52Z")
I always just assumed it had two suns, or maybe a sun and a black hole since we never see two suns in the sky. (Not that the show is chock full of views that include the sun.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/380 "2016-06-23T10:55:32Z")
I, for one, love the theory that what we see in the intro graphic is, in fact, a somewhat factual easter egg =\> the world they live on is the _inside_ of a hollow sphere. I know there are all sorts of scientific reasons that wouldn’t be the case. My answer would be “Magic, motherf…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789.md?page=20)