# Game of Thrones 6.09 "Battle of the Bastards" 6/19/16 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789 "2016-06-19T17:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/461 "2016-06-24T20:26:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The Common Tongue is not just “widely understood.” Either the whole city has at some point switched from Valyrian to the Common Tongue and speaks it as their everyday language; or they speak Valyrian and are depicted as speaking English anyway. Then Valerian is inconsistently depicted as English, because Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei speak Valerian with subtitles. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/462 "2016-06-24T20:34:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I don’t recall it being mentioned, but Tyrion is the only character who has both been to the Wall and also met Dany. He would at least have heard about White Walkers from the Night’s Watch. Lots of people have heard of the white walkers it’s just very few actually believe they’re real. I’m sure Tyrion and Dany had an equivalent to Westeros mythology 101 during their education. Going to the wall only proves that there’s a wall and that it’s cold beyond it. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/463 "2016-06-24T20:45:05Z")
We’ve also seen Davos and Meryn Trant speaking “English” in Braavos. I doubt they were speaking Valyrian. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/464 "2016-06-24T20:56:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then Valerian is inconsistently depicted as English, because Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei speak Valerian with subtitles. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. You’re agreeing with me. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/465 "2016-06-24T21:06:04Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > We’ve also seen Davos and Meryn Trant speaking “English” in Braavos. I doubt they were speaking Valyrian. I can buy that a lot of Braavosi can speak the Common Tongue, particularly where people deal with a lot of foreigners like the Iron Bank and brothels. But everyone appears to speak the Common Tongue, even when they are not speaking to foreigners. So like I say you are free to make up some reason why the Braavosi now all speak the Common Tongue, when the city was founded by slaves from Valyria. Or just assume that whatever language people are shown speaking depends on dramatic need or convenience (which is the actual case). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/466 "2016-06-24T21:09:23Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > Lots of people have heard of the white walkers it’s just very few actually believe they’re real. I’m sure Tyrion and Dany had an equivalent to Westeros mythology 101 during their education. Going to the wall only proves that there’s a wall and that it’s cold beyond it. It’s true that at the point Tyrion visited the Wall even most of the Night’s Watch were skeptical about White Walkers being on the move again. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/467 "2016-06-24T21:44:44Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > My problem for a long time has been–the threat of the White Walkers should be the first consideration and first thing talked about. And one crucial reason for the problems in communicating the threat is the misappropriation of the Night’s Watch. It used to be a military order that was the realm’s first line of defense and its earliest warning beacon for the need to mobilize greater forces. Serving in the Night’s Watch was an honor once, but its valuation changed dramatically during the Targaryen rule, and at the time of Robert’s accession, the Wall had already become an alternative penal system for the outcasts of society. Which has made it terribly difficult for the Watch to convince anyone, even in the north, that a threat is real and near. No one had any inclination to believe poachers, rapists, murderers and expelled noblemen; and the thought of helping those misfits met indifference at best - even when the not at all mythical threat of a massive wildling attack was announced. The Seven Kingdoms deprived themselves of the service the Night’s Watch had been established to fulfill; and it looks like they are going to pay for it. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I thought an interesting twist would be for the Wall to have fallen before the battle of the bastards and Jon and Sansa are put in the terrible position of needing Ramsay and his forces. Much better idea than mine. I had hoped that the Umbers had realized the real danger and had developed some crazy plan to kill Ramsay and proclaim the already present Rickon as the re-instituted Lord of Winterfell, who was then supposed to call the north to arms; Ramsay frustrates their plan, yet learns the truth when he, hm, questions the wanna-be assassin. Which might have led to an awkward meeting in front of Winterfell. Yeah, far too confusing and long-winded. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/468 "2016-06-24T23:11:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I can buy that a lot of Braavosi can speak the Common Tongue, particularly where people deal with a lot of foreigners like the Iron Bank and brothels. But everyone appears to speak the Common Tongue, even when they are not speaking to foreigners. > > So like I say you are free to make up some reason why the Braavosi now all speak the Common Tongue, when the city was founded by slaves from Valyria. Or just assume that whatever language people are shown speaking depends on dramatic need or convenience (which is the actual case). This is something I try to emphasize about fantasy/scifi. It’s not a fake documentary. The things you see and hear aren’t meant to be literally true. It’s a story being told to you in a way you will understand it. The key is the story, not the “facts” presented on screen. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/469 "2016-06-25T01:48:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then Valerian is inconsistently depicted as English, because Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei speak Valerian with subtitles. It’s best not to think about this too hard. GoT is still \*way \*better at this than say any of the Stargate shows. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/470 "2016-06-25T02:26:18Z")
Did anybody else think that Dany was messing with Tyrion when she said she would destroy the slaver cities? Yes. She is planning to bring all the killers she can collect to Westros and is into crucifixion but she didn’t sound convincing about destroying the cities. She’s been away and is reconnecting with Tyrion. It felt like she was testing him. On the other hand that’s more subtlety then the producers are going for at this point so probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/471 "2016-06-25T02:30:06Z")
Yes, I had the sense she might have been toying with him. Mostly, though, I was thinking, is this really the time you want to have this conversation? Isn’t stopping the fiery destruction of Meereen a _teensy_ bit more important? ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/472 "2016-06-25T03:38:57Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > **Critical1** has made it abundantly clear that he misspells the names on purpose because he gets some kind of jollies from it. That one is a lost cause. Dude, I have made it as clear as I possibly can that I simply do not care enough about the spellings of arbitrarily misspelled names of places and characters to look them up, memorize them, and then spell them the right way on a message board that happens to be the only place I discuss the show…what part about this is still unclear to you? on purpose? NO gets off on it? NO lost cause? quite possibly. do me a favor, read this post, believe that I am not lying, and stop posting crap like this or take it to the pit where I can respond less politely please. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/473 "2016-06-25T04:15:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Isn’t stopping the fiery destruction of Meereen a _teensy_ bit more important? For some reason, this reminded me of a question I forgot to ask: Why were there a bunch of Meereeni gathered in front of the closed gates of the city, essentially out in the desert, making it convenient for the Sons of the Harpy to kill them, and to be killed in their turn? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/474 "2016-06-25T05:58:02Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Jamie, what the hell is he going to do when hes the last (other than Tyrion) Lanister? (I mean THE Lanisters, as opposed to the greater not in line of inheritance Lanisters) all his kids dead, the last by his Sisters own hand. (Kingslayer twin powers ACTIVATE) I still think he might come in time to try to prevent the use of wildfire and possibly kills his sister in the process, willingly or unwillingly (I know that he said that he would burn cities for her, but I took that as a possible hint that he might end up doing exactly the contrary of what he expects. Plus him have tried to save King’s Landing from wildfire is an important part of his story. Maybe he’ll feel compelled to do it again). As for the rest, he’s a typical tragedy character. He’s going to lose everything he holds dear after having sacrificed everything (including his morality) for these things. After that, as I mentioned in another thread, I could see him, lacking any purpose in life, joining the Night Watch, for instance. Everybody expect a Cleganbowl, but maybe it’s Jamie who will have to fight/defeat the Mountain. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/475 "2016-06-25T06:05:33Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > For some reason, this reminded me of a question I forgot to ask: Why were there a bunch of Meereeni gathered in front of the closed gates of the city, essentially out in the desert, making it convenient for the Sons of the Harpy to kill them, and to be killed in their turn? Yeah, that didn’t seem to make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/476 "2016-06-25T06:53:51Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Dude, I have made it as clear as I possibly can that I simply do not care enough about the spellings of arbitrarily misspelled names of places and characters to look them up, memorize them, and then spell them the right way on a message board that happens to be the only place I discuss the show…what part about this is still unclear to you? You don’t have to look them up, since you learn them the way you’ve learned every other word you’ve learned to spell: by being exposed to it repeatedly. So either you’re incapable of picking up the spelling of a word despite reading it dozens or hundreds of times, or you’re doing it on purpose. I guess the latter was the most generous assumption. As for the random citizens, it seemed to be near an exit gate and I assumed people were trying to flee the city and I guess the Sons of the Harpy were there to murder them as they went. Which is kind of a weak idea as an insurgent force’s plans during a siege. But it makes for an easy reason to have all those plotlines and tools come together at once. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/477 "2016-06-25T07:32:53Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Dude, I have made it as clear as I possibly can that I simply do not care enough about the spellings of arbitrarily misspelled names of places and characters to look them up, memorize them, and then spell them the right way on a message board that happens to be the only place I discuss the show…what part about this is still unclear to you? > > on purpose? NO > gets off on it? NO > lost cause? quite possibly. > > do me a favor, read this post, believe that I am not lying, and stop posting crap like this or take it to the pit where I can respond less politely please. This reminds me of the old SDMB adage: The amount of care that goes into the presentation of a post is an indicator of the thoughtfulness of the ideas presented. If you want your posts to be perceived as ill-thought out, inconsequential fluff, by all means keep misspelling names. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/478 "2016-06-25T07:38:13Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > For some reason, this reminded me of a question I forgot to ask: Why were there a bunch of Meereeni gathered in front of the closed gates of the city, essentially out in the desert, making it convenient for the Sons of the Harpy to kill them, and to be killed in their turn? My assumption was that they were attempting to flee the city, which was being bombarded at the time. And the SotH were attacking them because they were conveniently available. ETA: I managed to miss the fact that **SenorBeef** has already posited the exact same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/479 "2016-06-25T07:59:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You don’t have to look them up, since you learn them the way you’ve learned every other word you’ve learned to spell: by being exposed to it repeatedly. So either you’re incapable of picking up the spelling of a word despite reading it dozens or hundreds of times, or you’re doing it on purpose. I guess the latter was the most generous assumption. > [@EllisDee](#): > > This reminds me of the old SDMB adage: The amount of care that goes into the presentation of a post is an indicator of the thoughtfulness of the ideas presented. > > If you want your posts to be perceived as ill-thought out, inconsequential fluff, by all means keep misspelling names. Jamie is spelled Jamie, Ramsey is spelled Ramsey, Not caring about a misspelled name that I have been exposed to the correct spelling on vastly more times than the incorrect one is hardly on me. Regarding the amount of care that goes into a post being an indicator? does that include making a post that is even slightly on topic? How about thread hijacks that, as has been pointed out by others than myself, are pointless and annoying? At this point I am officially done with this discussion. Any posts regarding spelling I will just ignore flat out. Hopefully we can have a discussion about the show in the thread about the show. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789/480 "2016-06-25T08:41:16Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Jamie is spelled Jamie, Ramsey is spelled Ramsey, Not caring about a misspelled name that I have been exposed to the correct spelling on vastly more times than the incorrect one is hardly on me. You’re not only wrong about the show, obviously, but you’re also wrong in general. My ex-wife’s cousin was named **Jaime** , spelled that way which is also the way the character’s name from the show is spelled. You think he doesn’t know how to spell his own name? Also, have you ever heard of the chef Gordon Ramsay? Granted that’s a surname, but it’s spelled Ramsay, like the name of the character in this show is also spelled. So you’re not only admitting that you are doing it on purpose, but you’re claiming to be “correctly” spelling names which you (wrongly) think the creators of this work have “misspelled”. You don’t get to do that. The names of the characters are spelled the way they’re spelled. There’s an easy, [authoritative list you can reference right here](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/?ref_=nv_sr_1) (check under “Cast”). Those are the only correct spellings of the character names in this show. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-09-battle-of-the-bastards-6-19-16-show-discussion/757789.md?page=25)