# Game of Thrones 6.10 "The Winds of Winter" 6/26/16 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472 "2016-06-26T23:32:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/321 "2016-06-28T13:59:40Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > ARE the Tyrells extinct? Wasn’t there a homebody Tyrell that Sansa was supposed to marry? I haven’t gotten to see episode 10 yet, so I don’t know if he schlepped up to King’s Landing for the trial. The books don’t exist! This is a fuzzy area since according to this [site](http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Willas_Tyrell) Willas Tyrell is mentioned in materials provided by HBO but not mentioned in the show. I think it’s a good bet that he won’t show up. Someone with a better memory can confirm but I think in the show Margery and Loras did not have any siblings. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/322 "2016-06-28T14:55:58Z")
Granny Tyrell sure seemed to indicate that her house was wiped out, no mention of any siblings/heirs stashed in the wings. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/323 "2016-06-28T15:08:27Z")
I guess I’ll have to play Devil’s Advocate. While I completely understand why Jamie wanted to put Walder Frey in his place, it’s not fair to blame the Freys for constantly needing the Lannisters to come to their rescue. All of the Frey soldiers are dressed like level 1 RPG characters, with “cracked leather caps” and “cloth shirts”. The Lannisters are all dressed like level 70 characters. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/324 "2016-06-28T15:08:44Z")
Just using show-based cues, what’s the best estimate for how much time has passed since episode 1? I’m sure some geeks somewhere have crunched the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/325 "2016-06-28T15:12:46Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Granny Tyrell sure seemed to indicate that her house was wiped out, no mention of any siblings/heirs stashed in the wings. If it was wiped out she’d be a refugee, not an ally. There’s clearly people in place who can command the loyalty of an army/navy, which given the dynastic power structure of Westeros probably means family. I believe she mentioned to Margery that she had an older sister who was meant to marry Margery’s grandfather before QoT seduced him - that sister probably has kids. And QoT probably didn’t just have one child. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/326 "2016-06-28T15:23:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The books don’t exist! > > This is a fuzzy area since according to this [site](http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Willas_Tyrell) Willas Tyrell is mentioned in materials provided by HBO but not mentioned in the show. I think it’s a good bet that he won’t show up. Someone with a better memory can confirm but I think in the show Margery and Loras did not have any siblings. Virtually every house has a surfeit of second sons and 3rd cousins running around – either because they’re explicitly mentioned/introduced in the show’s mysterious source material (which has a cast a hundred times larger than the show), or because you can just assume they’re out there somewhere. Almost any time the show needs a new member of House X, they can (justifiably) have someone just show up to be Cousin Oliver Tyrell, kung fu hippie and new heir to Highgarden, or whatever. (Kind of like Euron Greyjoy showing up out of the blue this season, e.g.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/327 "2016-06-28T15:26:52Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Just using show-based cues, what’s the best estimate for how much time has passed since episode 1? I’m sure some geeks somewhere have crunched the numbers. Dunno about numbers, but Tommen [looked like this](http://assets.viewers-guide.hbo.com/larges1-ep1-people-profilepic-baratheon-tommen-800x800.jpg) in Episode 2 and [like this](http://i.amz.mshcdn.com/IMfA0HQ0CaVcAcuG3yw5KAC_lVE=/fit-in/1200x9600/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F127784%2FTommen_baratheon_finale.jpg) in this final episode, so I’m thinking at least 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/328 "2016-06-28T15:28:56Z")
Is that even the same actor? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/329 "2016-06-28T15:32:44Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Just using show-based cues, what’s the best estimate for how much time has passed since episode 1? I’m sure some geeks somewhere have crunched the numbers. Considering the Stark children went from literal children to badass heroes, I think it’s at least as long as the show has been running, six years or so. On the other hand, that seems quite a long time for winter to be coming, even in a world where winter only comes a few times per generation. And people sure can grow up quick in a war-torn medieval shithole like Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/330 "2016-06-28T15:46:46Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > You may be right that we’ll see Gendry again, but Gendry is a bastard and bastards aren’t legally the rightful heirs to anything. Of course, as we’ve seen in recent episodes, being a bastard isn’t such a big deal if you have an army. But Gendry doesn’t have anything other than good looks at this point. Even if he was widely known to be Robert’s bastard, that wouldn’t amount to anything in itself. Might be kind of cool if Gendry led an insurrection against Cersei among the poor of King’s Landing, but he’d have to be an idiot to go back there when he might be recognized. (However, as far as anyone knows he’s been killed.) > [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Now for the crackpot theories: do we know that Bran knows that R + L = J? It’s no longer crackpot, it’s established. Even if it hasn’t been stated explicitly, Jon’s parentage is treated as a momentous thing, and having him be the son of Rhaegar would be the only secret that would make sense. Bran knows the family history, and understands what he has seen. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Do we know for sure that the concept of bigamy applies? Aegon the Conqueror had two wives at the same time. I don’t think I can answer this based purely on the show, but since we’ve never been shown a bigamous marriage in contemporary Westeros I think it’s a pretty safe bet. In TV commentary, Martin has stated that marriage in Westeros is based on marriage in medieval Europe. > [@EllisDee](#): > > As far as I’m aware, your inference is unique to you. Split seasons don’t have any particular timeframe associated with them. Consider [Breaking Bad’s split final season](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903747/episodes?season=5&ref_=tt_eps_sn_5): The first eight episodes aired in July and August of 2012, then the final eight episodes aired in August and September of 2013. You’re right. I see that the two parts of _Mad Men_ and _The Sopranos_ so-called “final seasons” were about a year apart. I’ve usually watched programs on DVD after they were completed. This is the first time I’ve caught up with a show before its final season. > [@](#): > > Also, it’s quite possible to span two years while still taking place within 12 months. Maybe you misread “span two years” to mean two years apart? No, I assumed it meant in two different calendar years. > [@Loach](#): > > Very true. I forgot about the Unsullied. Another one of the regenerating armies. No matter how many are killed there are still more. The other armies can at least draw on young men who have come of age since the last battle. The Unsullied have no way to regenerate their numbers since their origin is as slave boys who are treated brutally (most die in training) and castrated. I can’t imagine Dany subjecting any more boys to that treatment. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/331 "2016-06-28T15:51:59Z")
She had 8000 sullied and their replacements in training, possibly a few thousand more. How many have we seen die? A few dozen? Maybe two hundred at the high end? We haven’t seen any magic restocking. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/332 "2016-06-28T15:58:42Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is that even the same actor? Going from memory of an article I read, they had to change actors because of some of the scenes and situations with Margaery Tyrell. The original actor was too young. Maybe someone can confirm or refute. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/333 "2016-06-28T16:08:07Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > I guess I’ll have to play Devil’s Advocate. While I completely understand why Jamie wanted to put Walder Frey in his place, it’s not fair to blame the Freys for constantly needing the Lannisters to come to their rescue. All of the Frey soldiers are dressed like level 1 RPG characters, with “cracked leather caps” and “cloth shirts”. The Lannisters are all dressed like level 70 characters. He more than implied that Walder was a coward. He is always there to reap the benefits of the winning side without the risk or by betrayal like the Red Wedding. Right when he was introduced it was explained that he was called “The Late Walder Frey” because he showed up after the fighting was over. His sons sucked at being proper soldiers because they never had to be and their father never taught them to be. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > She had 8000 sullied and their replacements in training, possibly a few thousand more. How many have we seen die? A few dozen? Maybe two hundred at the high end? We haven’t seen any magic restocking. The implication at least was they were getting their ass kicked by the sons of the harpy. If there were still a full compliment of 8,000 there wouldn’t have been a crisis in Mureen. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/334 "2016-06-28T16:17:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The implication at least was they were getting their ass kicked by the sons of the harpy. If there were still a full compliment of 8,000 there wouldn’t have been a crisis in Mureen. I think the problem in Mereen is that the Unsullied are more suited to fight on a battlefield than being a peacekeeping force dealing with guerilla warfare. Shields and spears aren’t well suited for city streets. I would say at worst she still has 7000. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/335 "2016-06-28T16:21:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The implication at least was they were getting their ass kicked by the sons of the harpy. If there were still a full compliment of 8,000 there wouldn’t have been a crisis in Mureen. No matter how many Unsullied there are, there are/were most likely a lot more Sons of the Harpy. Also, it is mentioned that the unsullied are trained for open battlefield warfare, not defending an unfamiliar urban environment from people who were born there. Even without the Unsullied dying in droves, there could still be a Meereen crisis. I agree they implied a lot more Unsullied died last season than they showed, but like the other poster said, we only saw a few dozen get killed. That could imply a few hundred died. Still not enough to require magical replacements. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/336 "2016-06-28T16:28:05Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > No matter how many Unsullied there are, there are/were most likely a lot more Sons of the Harpy. I’m not sure that’s true (though I could be wrong/have missed clues). My understanding was that the Sons of the Harpy was a smaller force using hit and run tactics against a foe which, as noted, was neither trained nor outfitted for urban combat. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/337 "2016-06-28T16:29:16Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > She had 8000 sullied and their replacements in training, possibly a few thousand more. How many have we seen die? A few dozen? Maybe two hundred at the high end? We haven’t seen any magic restocking. > [@Loach](#): > > The implication at least was they were getting their ass kicked by the sons of the harpy. If there were still a full compliment of 8,000 there wouldn’t have been a crisis in Mureen. We haven’t seen many Unsullied die, but then we haven’t actually seen more than a few hundred soldiers of any kind die even in the worst massacres (although in some it’s implied that thousands were killed). I doubt that even the Unsullied with dragons to help would have experienced only a few dozen casualties in taking and holding three hostile walled cities. Still, the Unsullied haven’t yet experienced the kind of casualties inflicted on Northern, Baratheon, Tully, and Lannister forces. Since they were first mentioned, I’ve wondered about the trainees, since it’s been stated that only one in four survive the training. The “graduation ceremony” is to kill a slave baby in front of its mother. Certainly the new trainees aren’t going to receive the same training as the existing Unsullied. The Unsullied may not have taken major casualties yet, but once they do they can’t really be replaced. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/338 "2016-06-28T16:32:04Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > On the other hand, that seems quite a long time for winter to be coming, even in a world where winter only comes a few times per generation. And people sure can grow up quick in a war-torn medieval shithole like Westeros. “Winter is coming” is the Stark family motto. If there was some point in season 1 when someone specifically said “hey, Winter is coming”, meaning that they were reacting to the current magical/meteorological conditions and making a prediction, as opposed to just making a statement about the indeterminate future (like “death comes for us all”) I do not remember it. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/339 "2016-06-28T16:33:01Z")
> [@lucid-nonsense](#): > > The Dothraki seem to be based on the medieval Mongol tribes, and it gets _very_ cold in Mongolia (some places have a -30 C average in January). So they might be better used to it than we think. Is there any in-show indication of how cold it gets in the Dothraki Sea? Didn’t she say the Dothraki weren’t going? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/340 "2016-06-28T16:37:21Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Didn’t she say the Dothraki weren’t going? The Dothraki were on the ships. The Second Sons are staying in Mereen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472.md?page=18)