# Game of Thrones 6.10 "The Winds of Winter" 6/26/16 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472 "2016-06-26T23:32:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/381 "2016-06-28T20:49:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is that even the same actor? No. The older Tommen was played by one of the child actors depicting the Lannister cousins murdered by Karstark. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > “Winter is coming” is the Stark family motto. If there was some point in season 1 when someone specifically said “hey, Winter is coming”, meaning that they were reacting to the current magical/meteorological conditions and making a prediction, as opposed to just making a statement about the indeterminate future (like “death comes for us all”) I do not remember it. Yes, it was mentioned plenty of times early on. The lack of food reserves in King’s Landing to face the coming and expected harsh winter was even discussed by the small council. > [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Who is left of any size to back the increasingly toxic Lannisters? The laughable Frey troops? With Walder and Sons dead, I imagine their forces are stockpiling stuff for winter and not looking to do much fighting. A stiff fart in the Lannisters’ general direction would do them in right about now. Euron’s fleet of one thousand ships, at least. A naval fight before landing might reduce significantly the numbers on Dany’s side. Presumably the formerly Tully’s bannermen, given the situation. And eventually the Night walkers. I can see the magical protection of the wall being purposefully destroyed in some unknown way by Cersei to be a nuisance (or as a “let’s everything burn along with me since I’m doomed” ala Mad King) > [@wintertime](#): > > Debts are irrelevant for a country as long as the creditor cannot force you to give it all back. It was clearly mentioned that the Iron bank _always_ get its due, and could make a kingdom crumble if need be. Tywin and Olenna Tyrell were taking this danger very seriously. The creditor, in this case, is depicted as able to force you to give it all back. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It’s also because Walder is bragging about the Freys and Lannisters doing all this stuff, when they Freys haven’t done anything. They did something. The carried out the Red wedding and took the blame for it. That was what they brought to the deal and why Tiwyn rewarded them. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/382 "2016-06-28T20:55:21Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Hold on, time out: if the Wall has magic juju powers such that the White Walkers can’t pass – what is everyone so worried about? Remember how when the Night King touched Bran he was able to get through the magical protection of the cave? And where is Bran going now? ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/383 "2016-06-28T21:22:19Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It was clearly mentioned that the Iron bank _always_ get its due, and could make a kingdom crumble if need be. Tywin and Olenna Tyrell were taking this danger very seriously. The creditor, in this case, is depicted as able to force you to give it all back. What happened, however, is that the Iron Bank gave Stannis money too - for the promise that he was going to pay the debts of the crown later. We haven’t seen them do anything worse. It’s hard to compare money lent to a House with money for the crown. A House can be strong-armed in many ways, the leader of a continent is less susceptible to force or pressure. And Tywin and Olenna might have also feared rather personal consequences, in shape of assassins etc. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/384 "2016-06-28T21:26:34Z")
Does anybody have any idea or speculation on what “year” even means in a world where seasons last years? Also, **clairobscur** just reminded me of the Iron Bank of Braavos. Does anybody have a guess what part they’ll play in the coming seasons? Will they support Dany? Or find a way to destroy Cersei? They are always described as very powerful, but we haven’t yet seen any of their power. Do they have soldiers? An army? Do they have powerful governments on their side? In what way can they actually enforce the terms of their loans against debtor kings? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/385 "2016-06-28T21:33:25Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > It’s hard to compare money lent to a House with money for the crown. A House can be strong-armed in many ways, the leader of a continent is less susceptible to force or pressure. But there has to be a way to get their money back, or they wouldn’t be in the position to loan it out. Robert wasn’t the first or only king they loaned money to. They have to have a business model more sophisticated than “I guess we chose the wrong king again, there goes our yearly revenue!”. Since they’re in Braavos, I’m thinking they are involved with the faceless men. Of which there _has_ to be more than just the one, right? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/386 "2016-06-28T21:41:21Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Euron’s fleet of one thousand ships, at least. A naval fight before landing might reduce significantly the numbers on Dany’s side. > > Presumably the formerly Tully’s bannermen, given the situation. > > And eventually the Night walkers. I can see the magical protection of the wall being purposefully destroyed in some unknown way by Cersei to be a nuisance (or as a “let’s everything burn along with me since I’m doomed” ala Mad King) But Euron wants the Iron Throne. Now that Yara and Theon have teamed up with who he thought was going to be _his_ ally, he might still have it in for them, but I don’t see him backing the Lannisters. Even if Euron and the Lannisters fought against Dany and won, he’s still going to need the Lannisters gone to get the throne. The Tullys and bannermen just got ran out of their home by Lannisters and Lannister allies, can’t see them backing the Lannisters, either. If they weren’t killed off in their retreat by Lannister-backing Freys. I doubt Edmure will be looking to fight for the Lannisters if he gets out of the dungeon. I don’t know that even Jaime would fight for the Lannisters now, he’s smart enough to know that their public support is at rock bottom. Their presumably best ally just had their entire bloodline wiped out by his sister, the population of King’s Landing surely despises them, their weaker (and in constant need of rescuing) ally just lost the top three males of its house. His kids are all dead, the sister he loves is batshit insane (or getting there), and the daughter of the king he murdered is coming for his head. I’d round up Bronn and tell him to find a country pub we could buy and get the hell out of Dodge. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/387 "2016-06-28T21:50:35Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > But there has to be a way to get their money back, or they wouldn’t be in the position to loan it out. Robert wasn’t the first or only king they loaned money to. They have to have a business model more sophisticated than “I guess we chose the wrong king again, there goes our yearly revenue!”. > > Since they’re in Braavos, I’m thinking they are involved with the faceless men. Of which there _has_ to be more than just the one, right? Of course there are more ways to make it more convenient for a crown to pay the debts than remain stubborn; and more ways to do so than money: trading and other economically worthwhile rights, monopolies, land, political favours, ad infinitum. But what we saw, was: Lets give this Stannis guy money too, and hope for the best. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/388 "2016-06-28T22:18:01Z")
Something not touched on: does Tyrion know the Sands murdered Myrcella? He seemed to actually like Myrcella and Tommen and really did send her to Dorne to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/389 "2016-06-28T22:51:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Since they were first mentioned, I’ve wondered about the trainees, since it’s been stated that only one in four survive the training. The “graduation ceremony” is to kill a slave baby in front of its mother. Certainly the new trainees aren’t going to receive the same training as the existing Unsullied. I thought it was to kill a puppy? One that they had been given to raise at an earlier point in the training. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Splitting a “final season” is pretty sleazy, in my opinion. We the audience end up getting what for all intents and purposes appears to be two shortened seasons, but it only counts as a single season in terms of contracts. Thus, no raises or renegotiations for the actors because it’s all “one season,” and their contracts are structured by seasons. Scummy all around, if you ask me. I agree, but since it’s been reported that the principal actors are going to be getting paid half a million bucks per episode for these last seasons, it may have been necessary for budgetary reasons. They also reported the reason that Ghost wasn’t in the Battle of the Bastards was because they couldn’t afford to have both him and Wun Wun, so they chose Wun Wun (and also giving Wun Wun more weapons/equipment would have been cost-prohibitive as well). > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Remember how when the Night King touched Bran he was able to get through the magical protection of the cave? And where is Bran going now? Leave it to Bran to inadvertently destroy the world. Damnit, Bran. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/390 "2016-06-28T23:15:39Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I can’t see Martin pulling a gotcha by giving Jon a non-Targaryen father at this point. I don’t know, she looked kind of slutty to me. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/391 "2016-06-28T23:24:24Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Melisandre doesn’t know she’s headed south to meet Azor A’hai at last. She will hopefully be Jon’s spokesman there, and get Dany focused on the Night King quickly. There was already a Red Priestess in Dany’s court, and she seemed to know things she couldn’t possibly know, e.g. the details of Varys’ castration. If the Lord of Light wants Dany to fight the White Walkers, he doesn’t need Melisandre to tell her. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/392 "2016-06-28T23:49:53Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I thought it was to kill a puppy? One that they had been given to raise at an earlier point in the training. They had to kill the puppy they had raised after the first year of training or be killed themselves (although I don’t think this was actually mentioned in the show). They had to kill a baby in front of its mother to earn their shield. [Here,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHfyW1Efiiw) about 2:45. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/393 "2016-06-28T23:58:44Z")
Thoughts on Queen Cersei I Lannister - does she have \*any \*popular support, at all? In her gunpowder plot we saw plenty of gunpowder but not much plot. Is she blaming the Sept bombing on the sparrows, the Tyrells, communists or what? Olenna points the finger straight at Cersei and as the only one to benefit from it you don’t have to be the Queen of Thorns to make the same deduction. She has the added problem that the High Sparrow and Queen Maj were genuinely popular and has just made martyrs of them. She seems awful smug for a woman who only has on her side Dr. Mengele, Frankenstein’s monster and a stab-happy version of the Baker Street Irregulars. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/394 "2016-06-29T00:06:48Z")
Cersei was never a big-picture kind of gal. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/395 "2016-06-29T00:51:44Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Thoughts on Queen Cersei I Lannister - does she have \*any \*popular support, at all? In her gunpowder plot we saw plenty of gunpowder but not much plot. Is she blaming the Sept bombing on the sparrows, the Tyrells, communists or what? Olenna points the finger straight at Cersei and as the only one to benefit from it you don’t have to be the Queen of Thorns to make the same deduction. She has the added problem that the High Sparrow and Queen Maj were genuinely popular and has just made martyrs of them. She seems awful smug for a woman who only has on her side Dr. Mengele, Frankenstein’s monster and a stab-happy version of the Baker Street Irregulars. She did _just_ blow up most of her enemies, become Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, and completely turn the tables on the person who had been torturing her for (days/weeks/months?). There’s no doubt that her downfall will be coming around soon enough, but jeez, let her have her moment. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/396 "2016-06-29T03:29:16Z")
So apparently when they dropped the R + L = J bomb, Lyanna says “His name is…” mumble mumble. So that’s why the whispers the audience couldn’t hear. We’re all now supposed to speculate on Jon Snow’s real name. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/397 "2016-06-29T03:34:33Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Thoughts on Queen Cersei I Lannister - does she have \*any \*popular support, at all? In her gunpowder plot we saw plenty of gunpowder but not much plot. Is she blaming the Sept bombing on the sparrows, the Tyrells, communists or what? Olenna points the finger straight at Cersei and as the only one to benefit from it you don’t have to be the Queen of Thorns to make the same deduction. She has the added problem that the High Sparrow and Queen Maj were genuinely popular and has just made martyrs of them. She seems awful smug for a woman who only has on her side Dr. Mengele, Frankenstein’s monster and a stab-happy version of the Baker Street Irregulars. She’s got a walking monster and she just caused the High Sept with all her enemies in it to explode. Very few people know how she actually did that, so I’d say she can just claim she can do the same thing anywhere in the city if people cause trouble. They’re likely to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/398 "2016-06-29T05:08:21Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Very few people know how she actually did that, so I’d say she can just claim she can do the same thing anywhere in the city if people cause trouble. They’re likely to believe it. …people don’t know what wildfire is? It was a major component of why their city wasn’t taken by Stannis. It’s not a secret. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/399 "2016-06-29T05:11:18Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > But nothing from the show indicates she treated him horribly, or “much worse than Catelyn”, or wasn’t raised as his sibling just because she made some offhand comment apologizing (while laughing) when she finally saw him again. Don’t know what you’re getting all sarcastic about when your point is unsubstantiated. Nothing but what a character on the show stated. And by your same logic, you’re claim that they were raised like brother and sister is also unsubstantiated. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/400 "2016-06-29T05:21:57Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Does anybody have any idea or speculation on what “year” even means in a world where seasons last years? A year is a year, just about as you’d expect it to be, with some degree of ordinary seasonal shifts within it. Think of the long “seasons” as climatic cycles. “Winter” is like a Very-Little Ice Age. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472.md?page=21)