# Game of Thrones 6.10 "The Winds of Winter" 6/26/16 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472 "2016-06-26T23:32:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/561 "2016-07-04T12:03:44Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Whoosh! I suppose you are driving very fast right now and your pleasure at this activity inpires you to mimicry. (Please be careful.) ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/562 "2016-07-04T12:40:03Z")
It’s a fantasy world and the only rule is the pen of the script writer. Fire immunity is not a thing, living creatures can’t breathe fire (hey, physics moron me), so anything goes. Settled. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/563 "2016-07-04T13:36:02Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > living creatures can’t breathe fire They can[come damn close](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle#Defense_mechanism), though… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/564 "2016-07-04T14:34:18Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That would make the atmosphere approximately 156% nitrogen. And nitrogen is lighter than oxygen, anyway. I thought for aerodynamics, more atmosphere _always_ makes it easier to fly. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/565 "2016-07-04T16:50:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Could we finagle the math? Something like Planetos has .7 the gravity of Earth (which might make more plausible some of the incredible feats of strength and athleticism by some of our heroes); the dragons have very light, hollow bones with even higher strength-to-weight ratios than birds; Planetos has a thicker atmosphere at sea level than Earth (maybe double the nitrogen, or something, which I think wouldn’t affect biology much)…? Could all this add up to a very large animal the size of Drogon, and larger, being able to fly? No. For something the size of Drogon to fly, even assuming hollow bones and air sacs, the air would have to be so thick that people would be moving around as if they were walking under water. Finagling the gravity and air density enough to allow Drogon to fly would cause everything else in the world to move drastically differently than it does. To reiterate, Drogon is 20 times larger than the largest flying animal known on earth, and we don’t even know how that flew. Other dragons were even larger than Drogon is now. Very large creatures can “fly” in water, but not in a much less dense medium. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/566 "2016-07-04T17:05:23Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > It’s a fantasy world and the only rule is the pen of the script writer. Fire immunity is not a thing, living creatures can’t breathe fire (hey, physics moron me), so anything goes. Settled. Actually, figuring out how to get an animal to breathe fire would be a lot easier than giving an animal the size of a dragon the ability to fly under the apparent gravitational and atmospheric conditions of the GoT world. After all, many Earth organisms produce flammable hydrocarbons and alcohols. You just need an exothermic reaction (like the one in **MrDibble’s** link) that can produce a high enough temperature for the fuel to ignite. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/567 "2016-07-04T17:12:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > For something the size of Drogon to fly, even assuming hollow bones and air sacs… Given the way the dragons interact with solid wood and stone objects, I’m pretty sure their bones aren’t hollow. Those sacs must be full of magic buoyancy fluid. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/568 "2016-07-04T17:31:45Z")
On how Balerion and Drogon are able to fly, my go to answer for these settings is - A wizard did it. Thoughts on Jon Snow as DAKINGINDANORF; next season we really need to see him preparing for the \*real \*war to come. He warned whats-his-face Cerwyn that the enemy won’t wait out the storm, he brings the storm. Now that the human villains (with the exception of Cersei, who I think will be killed by Jaime in Season 7, Episode 9) have largely been dealt with let’s see Jon order in stockpiles of pitch, Dragonglass and Valyrian Steel, reinforce the Night’s Watch as the likely first point of contact for the Night King’s invasion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/569 "2016-07-04T17:32:29Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No. For something the size of Drogon to fly, even assuming hollow bones and air sacs, the air would have to be so thick that people would be moving around as if they were walking under water. Finagling the gravity and air density enough to allow Drogon to fly would cause everything else in the world to move drastically differently than it does. > > To reiterate, Drogon is 20 times larger than the largest flying animal known on earth, and we don’t even know how that flew. Other dragons were even larger than Drogon is now. > > Very large creatures can “fly” in water, but not in a much less dense medium. Maybe I missed this part of the discussion, but how is Drogon 20 times bigger than a quetzalcoatlus (or whatever the largest pterosaur was)? Weren’t those things [huge](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1SpZtK8SDeI/UKHVBPdlPoI/AAAAAAAAAIo/8CHJD9faq1o/s1600/quetzal+giraffe.jpg), if not quite as big as Drogon? Aside: Yes, this is a silly discussion, but I find it fun. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/570 "2016-07-04T17:52:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe I missed this part of the discussion, but how is Drogon 20 times bigger than a quetzalcoatlus (or whatever the largest pterosaur was)? Weren’t those things [huge](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1SpZtK8SDeI/UKHVBPdlPoI/AAAAAAAAAIo/8CHJD9faq1o/s1600/quetzal+giraffe.jpg), if not quite as big as Drogon? > [@Colibri](#): > > The maximum estimate for the weight of Quetzalcoatlus, the largest pterosaur, is around 500 pounds. [Drogon now is easily the size of a Tyrannosaurus](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/b3JC5ScYJj0/maxresdefault.jpg), if not larger, and Tyrannosaurus is estimated to have weighed at least 6 tons, or 24 times larger than Quetzalcoatlus.[And the largest dragons were far larger than that](http://i.imgur.com/kXV39Di.jpg). ([Here’s a Tyrannosaurus skull for comparison.](http://static.bhigr.com/store/files/product_images/detailed/d_784.jpg)) A large Tyrannosaurus skull is about 5 feet long; that of the dragon skull next to Arya looks to be about 10 feet long, assuming Arya is 4 feet tall. So a really big dragon is going to weigh several dozen tons at least. > > If we’re using pterosaur flight as a guide, even if a dragon launched itself from a cliff it would drop like brick (and make a hell of a big hole when it hit the ground). Details of how they fly are trivial compared to the impossibility of them flying at all. Here you go. Even if you gave Drogon hollow bones, he’d still weigh far more than a Quetzalcoatlus. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/571 "2016-07-04T18:00:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Here you go. > > Even if you gave Drogon hollow bones, he’d still weigh far more than a Quetzalcoatlus. Okay… but he’s not nearly as bulky as a T-Rex. If we can assume carbon nanotube lattice bones… I get your point. Just trying to find a finger of a sliver of a chance to suspend my disbelief on. As it is I’ll pretend that GRRM and HBO are just using hyperbole for the sake of fun and drama, while the “real” version of the story had smaller dragons. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/572 "2016-07-04T18:05:57Z")
Those bones aren’t just hollow, but filled with hydrogen, which is also stored in large sacks throughout the body; that’s also what they use for breathing fire. Well, or maybe not… Although it would add an extra element of danger to the dragons if they were also highly explosive. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/573 "2016-07-04T18:10:08Z")
Besides dragons, we have armies made up of the living dead (some hardly more than skeletons), assassins made out of smoke, mind-control of animals and people, time-travel, etc, etc, etc. Dragons seem like one of more believable things if you’re going to suspend your disbelief. I mean, what kind of physics do smoke-assassins and telepathy depend on? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/574 "2016-07-04T18:11:41Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Those bones aren’t just hollow, but filled with hydrogen, which is also stored in large sacks throughout the body; that’s also what they use for breathing fire. > > Well, or maybe not… Although it would add an extra element of danger to the dragons if they were also highly explosive. 😉 Heh. I can just see Drogon being hit with a fire arrow in one of his hydrogen sacs and going down in flames like the Hindenburg. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/575 "2016-07-04T18:16:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Even if you gave Drogon hollow bones, he’d still weigh far more than a Quetzalcoatlus. And yet, any explanation that tries to change the world around him (thicker/different atmosphere, lower gravity etc.), is soon chock-full with unintended consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/576 "2016-07-04T18:25:11Z")
Personally, I find that people acting in ways inconsistent with their established characters, or doing obviously stupid things take me out of it far more than any of the supernatural elements like dragons. I mean, the fantastical elements by their nature can’t be expected to be strictly realistic. But people are still people, and when they act unrealistically it’s harder to accept. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/577 "2016-07-04T21:53:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I mean, the fantastical elements by their nature can’t be expected to be strictly realistic. But people are still people, and when they act unrealistically it’s harder to accept. Yes. We do know that Dany, Tyrion, Jon and Sansa are as unreal as a dragon, they are all lies; but in contrast to dragons, they are a representation of something we are familiar with, and so there is an expectation of conformity to known rules to make them human in our mind, so that we can care. If they fail, they fall into “uncanny valley”-territory, which is as irritating as it is frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/578 "2016-07-05T05:35:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I mean, the fantastical elements by their nature can’t be expected to be strictly realistic. But people are still people, and when they act unrealistically it’s harder to accept. Just because the inhabitants of Planetos look like humans doesn’t mean we can assume that they are. In fact, there’s no way they could be, since it’s not Earth. They could have vastly different brain structures, neural pathways, chemical balances of dopamine and seratonin and all those reward systems, etc. As alien creatures, I’m sure all those decisions make perfect sense to them. 👽 ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/579 "2016-07-05T12:10:34Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Just because the inhabitants of Planetos look like humans doesn’t mean we can assume that they are. (…) As alien creatures, I’m sure all those decisions make perfect sense to them. 👽 Well, they are neither alien nor creatures, but inventions. 😉 And their very human creators make no effort to distinguish them from us but present them as human: they look like us, work like us, walk and talk like us, and they live in a world that is made up of building blocks that are familiar to us, as part of history or our cultural mindscape. Any difference we have seen so far seems to be related to the one element not present in our reality but well known to us as a concept: magic. And since the existence of the supernatural is so deeply ingrained in our psyche that the ones who don’t believe in it at all are the minority, not even the reality of magic is necessarily alien to everyone in the audience. Of course, the show has a more difficult task than a writer to show magic in a plausible way: when we read about an attack of three dragons against a slaver ship, we create the images on our own, which makes them plausible. Watching the images created by someone else, adds mental distance, and gaps appear. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/580 "2016-07-05T15:51:31Z")
Dragon sex. It’s hawt! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472.md?page=30)