# Game of Thrones 6.10 "The Winds of Winter" 6/26/16 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472 "2016-06-26T23:32:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/161 "2016-06-27T15:03:30Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > In all fairness, Jaime didn’t actually murder any babies This time. He’s been perfectly fine with (attempted) child murder in the past (even joking while he did it - and note the callout to that very scene in his convo with Edmure), and was also just peachy with arranging the gang-rape of his own brother’s wife. Just because he sometimes _regrets_ his evil, doesn’t mean he isn’t evil. I think some people confuse sympathetic with not-evil. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/162 "2016-06-27T15:04:37Z")
I don’t think Jaime was involved in what happened to Tysha with the soldiers. That was all Tywin’s doing. Not because he was above that sort of thing, but that he wouldn’t be so cruel to Tyrion. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/163 "2016-06-27T15:10:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Considering all his political maneuverings and manipulations, I could see Littlefinger not knowing what to do with an enemy who can’t be negotiated with. He might still think it’s just the North being superstitious. He could use those superstitions, but I can imagine him not believing in the walkers until he sees them himself. Quite possible, it fits his character, the one on the show even more than the one in the books. Littlefinger’s backstory of humble beginnings and unrequited love, who decided to insist on living his dream by adapting the entire world to it, fits a persona who will reject the idea that his vision of the future could be toppled by the embodiment of anti-future. In the show, the moniker “King of Ashes” fits another character much better: Cersei. I’d even say that everyone who wanted or still wants to rule Westeros has proven to be more a King or Queen of Ashes than Littlefinger, either voluntarily and unwittingly. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/164 "2016-06-27T15:16:14Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > My take on that was straightforward: Qyburn is a maester (or close enough), and he’s Cersei’s guy. Now for the first time since he became Cersei’s guy, Cersei is actually queen. So of course she makes him her grand maester. He’s actually the Hand now. He had the pin on when putting the crown on her head. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/165 "2016-06-27T15:18:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Based on what Tyrion said before, I think it’s clear it’s left over from when the Mad King stockpiled it to blow up the city. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Cersei asked Qyburn if the rumors where true. I assumed the rumors were that there was extra wildfire left over from Aerys. Yeah. The casks looked pretty old, and they were slowly leaking in spots. The cache looked like it had been there for quite a while, not that it had been freshly made for the occasion. > [@JcWoman](#): > > I kind of disagree. She did send her MountainZombie dude to block Tommen from going to the Sept, so apparently she thought to try to protect him from being blown up with the rest of the crowd. And if that’s true, I don’t think she would have known he’d kill himself. > > I think Tommen was the most tragic character in this episode. He was never trained to rule (being the youngest kid), knew he was weak because of that but couldn’t learn fast enough. I think that as he watched the Sept explode, he realized that there were machinations going on in his court that he wasn’t privy to - something a king should never experience. Then realizing that he was nothing more than a figurehead, he felt he had nothing really to live for. At least this is how I read the situation, and it explains for me the matter of fact, unhesitating way he stepped out the window. Cersei may not have thought that Tommen would commit suicide as a result of her actions, but she still believed that he was fated to die soon somehow. She said as much to Jaime after she learned of Myrcella’s death. She came to terms with it and decided not to let it sway her actions. Hence her coldness at his actual death, she had already mourned for Tommen. Just because Cersei took simple actions to protect Tommen doesn’t mean that she had stopped believing that he was going to die somehow anyway. I think you’re mostly right about Tommen’s mindset. But I think his despair came more from Margaery’s death and the revelation that _his own mother_ could do that to him. The Mountain appearing to prevent Tommen from going to the trial was a dead giveaway that Cersei was the one who bombed the Sept. All that death and loss and grief coupled with the revelation of his mother’s monstrous nature was too much for him to take. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/166 "2016-06-27T15:19:58Z")
I think that the confrontation between Davos and Melisandre was really interesting. Mel’s crisis of faith over the past season+ has been one of my favorite subplots. To me, Jon’s half-assed sentence of exile came off as him buying her sincerity mixed with empathy that stems from the hard decisions he’s had to make in the past. I think he recognizes a kindred spirit in her. Curious where her story’s going to lead. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/167 "2016-06-27T15:22:50Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > I kind of disagree. She did send her MountainZombie dude to block Tommen from going to the Sept, so apparently she thought to try to protect him from being blown up with the rest of the crowd. And if that’s true, I don’t think she would have known he’d kill himself. There is a difference between actively trying to kill her own son or not trying to prevent his death, and believing that, not matter what, she is going to see him dead. Cersei’s fatalism is germanic or nordic in nature. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/168 "2016-06-27T15:23:37Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > Please refresh my memory. What’s her beef with Beric Dondarian and Thoros of Myr? Beric and Thoros sold Gendry (Robert Baratheon’s bastard) to Melisandre, which is also the reason she is on the list. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/169 "2016-06-27T15:28:51Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Beric and Thoros sold Gendry (Robert Baratheon’s bastard) to Melisandre, which is also the reason she is on the list. I just remembered that Melisandre told Arya that she “saw the faces of the people [Arya] is going to kill.” I wonder if Mel saw her own face in that lineup. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/170 "2016-06-27T15:29:31Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Cersei asked Qyburn if the rumors where true. I assumed the rumors were that there was extra wildfire left over from Aerys. Remember that the Wildfire that Tyrion unleashed on Stannis was what he’d confiscated from Cersei. This Wildfire seems to be a cache which was unaccounted for. Which is why she had Qyburn investigate. She would have had no need to do so if this was leftover from the Battle. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/171 "2016-06-27T15:29:32Z")
In season 1, IIRC, Robert came back from the hunt sure that the accident was his own drunken fault. I think later there were hints that Cersei arranged his death, and now, like a Bond villain, she admitted it to the Septa. But how? How did she arrange his accident without he himself knowing it? ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/172 "2016-06-27T15:32:01Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > In season 1, IIRC, Robert came back from the hunt sure that the accident was his own drunken fault. I think later there were hints that Cersei arranged his death, and now, like a Bond villain, she admitted it to the Septa. But how? How did she arrange his accident without he himself knowing it? She had Lancel give him drugged wine during the hunt, slowing his reflexes and increasing the chance that he’d make a fatal mistake. Which made it even stupider for her to empower the Sparrows. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/173 "2016-06-27T15:34:42Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I don’t think you need to fanwank Ned not telling Cat. It’s infinitely easier to keep a secret if you’re the only person that knows. And it’s not like if the secret get out it’s just going to be some hurt feelings. Robert will try to murder a member of his family. It might very well mean war. Better have your nephew bear some scorn rather than be killed. > > He can control what he says, but he can’t control what Catelyn says. To him it’s worth it to reduce that risk. Agreed. Two can keep a secret only if one of them is dead. ETA: Plus, if memory serves, this was shortly after marrying Catelyn, so he might not have known her well enough to trust her to keep the secret, and the longer he held it, the harder it would be to divulge the truth. ETA2: And I missed **Snarky\_Kong** saying the exact same thing even earlier in the thread. Youz guyz write to damn much and it’s too damn hard to keep up! ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/174 "2016-06-27T15:36:01Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > How did she arrange his accident without he himself knowing it? Robert didn’t know that Lancel was giving him wine spiked with strong alcohol to make him slow and awkward. Cersei facilitated Robert’s death, but he killed himself, in more than one way. Beaten to the punch by _oft wears hats_. ---
**Author:** ![Garula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Garula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garula)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/175 "2016-06-27T15:41:09Z")
I had thought all the wildfire was used up for the battle of Blackwater, but it makes the most sense that there was still at least one cache unaccounted for. So, how was Qyburn able to get his little birds dedicated enough to kill? It seems unlikely they would go so far as to murder for him just because he gave them some candy. Was he spiking the sweets with some kind of nefarious mind control concoction perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/176 "2016-06-27T15:42:55Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > My take on that was straightforward: Qyburn is a maester (or close enough), and he’s Cersei’s guy. Now for the first time since he became Cersei’s guy, Cersei is actually queen. So of course she makes him her grand maester. Tommen hadn’t died yet, and I don’t think (despite the awesome costume change) Cersei was really planning/expecting his suicide. But having Pycelle as the king’s Maester was not going to work for her. Pycelle was a quintessential small-c conservative in the Westeros context: rule-bound and legalistic, hesitant to approve bold action, and not likely to be helpful to Cersei’s more … pragmatic approach to rule (through Tommen, if things hadn’t gone sideways there). I am curious why she didn’t let him die at the Sept, but maybe he wasn’t going to go there after the whore session? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/177 "2016-06-27T15:54:35Z")
I wonder if this is pretty much the last we’ve seen of Essos? We might have a couple scenes there to conclude Jorah’s storyline, but I doubt it will be in many episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/178 "2016-06-27T16:07:00Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Targaryens also practice polygyny (at least on occasion) so if Daenerys turns out to be barren after all she can just marry Jon and let him be her co-ruler (on parchment) and Jon can take Sansa as a secondary wife. Then Daenerys can recall Daario and name him captain of her Queensguard, and everyone will live happily ever after. Well except for Sansa who get’s to spend the rest of her life as a royal broodmare and having to have sex with a man she was raised to believe was her brother. 😛 Which, sadly, is not nearly the worst of the fates that have been offered to her. > [@Shakester](#): > > Yes, but that whole twincest thing would have been revealed, so whether she and her kids (and Jaime) would still be alive and well is not at all likely. The whole twincest thing got revealed anyway. It just turned out that most people found it expedient to turn a blind eye to it so as not to disrupt the kingdom. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Jon is only half Targaryen, though. They seemed to prefer to keep it entirely within the family. Considering her other option got a gold plated mullet, her Targaryen options are mighty thin. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/179 "2016-06-27T16:12:04Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I don’t think Jaime was involved in what happened to Tysha with the soldiers. That was all Tywin’s doing. > > Not because he was above that sort of thing, but that he wouldn’t be so cruel to Tyrion. You’re right, I mixed that up with him being involved in setting up the relationship. The Branestration was still all him, though. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472/180 "2016-06-27T16:12:29Z")
As much as I’ve been down on the writing this season, some of the rest of the work is the best they’ve ever done. The music has been wildly divergent this season. In previous season the music was almost entirely varied theming, but this season has had a lot of purely original contextual pieces that are in a style unlike anything done in previous seasons. I checked to see if they changed the composer, even, and they didn’t. The editing and music in the opening scenes before the destruction is some of the best work they’ve ever done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-6-10-the-winds-of-winter-6-26-16-show-discussion/758472.md?page=10)