# Game of Thrones 7.01 "Dragonstone" 7/16/17 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324 "2017-07-15T15:54:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/202 "2017-07-18T17:29:21Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The Targaryen line has no right to the throne and Dany absolutely makes a moral argument for her rule. It’s a gigantic part of her character. Tough one: the legitimacy of power. One thing we know for sure: Daenerys believes that she has a right to the throne and plenty of people support her claim. Whether she will therefore be called Daenerys the Legitimate or the Saviour or the Slaughterer will likely depend on the sponsor of the history books. > [@Colibri](#): > > You can devise various explanations for Edmure’s absence from the Twins, but having him sent to Casterly Rock is a simple one and consistent with what’s previously been said. In other words, he can be placed by the writers wherever they want him to be when the plot asks for someone like him. 😉 But I get your point. Added: Your points are perfectly valid, imo, **storyteller0910**. It’s a bit clumsy. Call it an homage to an author we all know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/203 "2017-07-18T18:11:26Z")
Apparently [the Internet hated Ed Sheeran’s cameo so much](https://www.yahoo.com/music/ed-sheeran-deletes-twitter-account-065316161.html), he ended up deleting his Twitter account in response to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/204 "2017-07-18T18:50:26Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Apparently [the Internet hated Ed Sheeran’s cameo so much](https://www.yahoo.com/music/ed-sheeran-deletes-twitter-account-065316161.html), he ended up deleting his Twitter account in response to it. Fuck the internet. Fuck cable…and fuck Twitter. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/205 "2017-07-18T18:53:45Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Apparently [the Internet hated Ed Sheeran’s cameo so much](https://www.yahoo.com/music/ed-sheeran-deletes-twitter-account-065316161.html), he ended up deleting his Twitter account in response to it. Nah, he had already said he was going to do it a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/206 "2017-07-18T19:13:48Z")
> [@LVBoPeep](#): > > Where is Edmure Tully? Am I the only one that expected Arya to set him free after her wholesale slaughter of the Frey House? Wasn’t he basically a prisoner in his own castle at the end of last season when they killed the Blackfish? This Ed Sheeran thing is ridiculous. It was a freaking surprise for an Actress on the show. It’s a nice story. The Internet really does suck. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/207 "2017-07-18T19:27:53Z")
I think that Dany will eventually win the Iron Throne, but I think the key is the exchange between her and Tyrion when they are talking about the wheel. It’s an infinite cycle, but Dany claims she is going to “break the wheel.” I predict that the only way to break that wheel is to introduce a new form of government. She will transition Westeros to a republic with popularly-elected rulers. And that’s why Tyrion and Varys believe in her because they know her end game and support it. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/208 "2017-07-18T19:30:39Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yep: [‘Game of Thrones’ Season 7: Who Is Left on Arya’s Kill List?](http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/game-of-thrones-arya-kill-list.html) Good to know Illyn Payne’s terminal cancer is gone! Maybe the tongueless old headsman will come back and teach his nephew Pod a thing or two about swinging swords. Certainly Brienne is having a hell of a time with that task. Speaking of which, will we see a Tyrion/Pod reunion? Or is that phase of Tyrion’s life over, like the Bronn phase? And what ever happened to Sir Bronn of the Blackwater, anyway? Did he ever marry that Stokeworth girl? (EDIT: I just looked him up, and apparently he was in the last episode of the sixth season, riding into King’s Landing with Jaime in time to watch Cersei’s 9/11-coronation. I guess I thought we had lost track of him after Dorne. …It’s been a long 13 months.) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/209 "2017-07-18T19:46:00Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > (EDIT: I just looked him up, and apparently he was in the last episode of the sixth season, riding into King’s Landing with Jaime in time to watch Cersei’s 9/11-coronation. I guess I thought we had lost track of him after Dorne. …It’s been a long 13 months.) On top of the that, he reunited with Pod at Riverrun. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/210 "2017-07-18T20:00:42Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > I think that Dany will eventually win the Iron Throne, but I think the key is the exchange between her and Tyrion when they are talking about the wheel. It’s an infinite cycle, but Dany claims she is going to “break the wheel.” I predict that the only way to break that wheel is to introduce a new form of government. She will transition Westeros to a republic with popularly-elected rulers. And that’s why Tyrion and Varys believe in her because they know her end game and support it. This is what I’ve been saying but nobody has bought into my theory as of yet. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/211 "2017-07-18T20:21:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Jaime’s offer to Edmure was that he would be allowed to live out the rest of his life as a hostage at Casterly Rock. Since he evidently was not at the Twins while Arya was destroying the Freys, one assumes that he must have been sent there. Not a plot hole at all. Ok thanks- missed that ! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/212 "2017-07-18T20:29:33Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > This is what I’ve been saying but nobody has bought into my theory as of yet. I think it’s possible; Varys, in particular, would back her in that. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/213 "2017-07-18T20:40:37Z")
I also believe, as I wrote in another thread, a the end of all of this Westeros will be completely transformed into something more stable and fair. This story will be the blood, sweat and tears it took for it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/214 "2017-07-18T20:49:58Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > …So, the current King of the North might want to know that the real supposed King of the North, his step brother (so it seems) is not dead, and safe at Castle Black. Perhaps like Season one “BIG NEWS”. > > Send a raven?.. Is there anyone at Castle Black who actually knows how to send a raven? After Maester Aemon dies they weren’t able to send out ravens announcing Jon’s election as Lord Commander. > [@Shakester](#): > > Bran is heir to Winterfell. Jon isn’t, and was never going to be, as he is a bastard. > > Jon was elected King in the North. Bran wasn’t, and was never going to be, as he is a crippled teenager… Yeah, Jon isn’t King in the North because he succeeded Rob, it’s because he was elected King in the North by the Northern nobility. He’s also be de facto Lord of Winterfell because Sansa’s stepped back and has no interest in pressing her claims, nor is Bran going to. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/215 "2017-07-18T20:51:06Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > I think that Dany will eventually win the Iron Throne, but I think the key is the exchange between her and Tyrion when they are talking about the wheel. It’s an infinite cycle, but Dany claims she is going to “break the wheel.” I predict that the only way to break that wheel is to introduce a new form of government. She will transition Westeros to a republic with popularly-elected rulers. And that’s why Tyrion and Varys believe in her because they know her end game and support it. While it’s possible, instilling a democracy would be quite a stretch for someone with a God complex who feels she has a birth right to the throne and is willing to kill off half the world with dragons and eunuchs. Is she really all that different from Cersei? While she has gained compassion for the commoners while ruling Meereen, let’s not forget that she basically invaded another land and took over with force, just like the others on the wheel that she plans to “break”. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/216 "2017-07-18T20:55:22Z")
> [@](#): > > While it’s possible, instilling a democracy would be quite a stretch for someone with a God complex who feels she has a birth right to the throne and is willing to kill off half the world with dragons and eunuchs. Is she really all that different from Cersei? While she has gained compassion for the commoners while ruling Meereen, let’s not forget that she basically invaded another land and took over with force, just like the others on the wheel that she plans to “break”. Khaleesi left Daario Nuncio behind in Merreen to implement a republic (I don’t recall the exact words, but that was the gist of it) Of course, she feels she has a hereditary claim to Westeros that she did not have to Merreen, so who knows? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/217 "2017-07-18T22:46:14Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > While it’s possible, instilling a democracy would be quite a stretch for someone with a God complex who feels she has a birth right to the throne and is willing to kill off half the world with dragons and eunuchs. Is she really all that different from Cersei? While she has gained compassion for the commoners while ruling Meereen, let’s not forget that she basically invaded another land and took over with force, just like the others on the wheel that she plans to “break”. “Breaking the wheel” could just as easily mean Lords Paramount system and turning Westeros (or at least the parts not made into client kingdoms) into an absolute monarchy dividing into a bunch of providers with non-hereditary governors answering directly to the Crown. She might have turned Meereen into a republic, but that’s just because she’s moving on to bigger things and setting it up as a vassal state would’ve been impractical. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/218 "2017-07-19T00:25:00Z")
I don’t see the people of Westeros being ready for true democracy. They lack education and the requisite civil society. Think Afghanistan. More likely, ‘Just Rule’ would involve a council of kings who represent their regions, rather than a small council of loyalists. Most likely, the threat from the walkers will become so obvious that alliances will have to be forged between warring factions, and Daeneris and Jon will become the leaders of the allied North and South, at least until and if the army of the undead is defeated. Then we are likely back to warring factions and might makes right - but the story may end before then. What I would like to see happen is Jon and Daeneris attempt to make some kind of alliance with the Lannisters, but have crazy Cersei refuse and insist on fighting to the death instead. Jaime intervenes by killing her, and the story then becomes all the people in Westeros uniting to fight the White Walkers, with the last season depicting the war between the living and the dead, with Jaime and the Lannisters fighting alongside Tyrion, Jon, and Daeneris. Hmm… maybe the scene with Arya and the Lannister squad is an attempt to show that the Lannister army is just people like everyone else, to set up our acceptance of the Lannisters as allies. Hell, maybe Arya plays a role in brokering that peace, either by coming to the aid of those soldiers or by killing Cersei… ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/219 "2017-07-19T01:17:04Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > You know what the difference is between this thread and the Citadel? > > The Citadel has books in it. Every time I hear someone complain about comments about the books, especially since that now the show is well past the published books, I see them as [a gopher](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olOXVskDwOs). ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/220 "2017-07-19T02:14:10Z")
You know what I’ve just realized? What they don’t have at Eastwatch by the sea? Or anywhere NEAR Eastwatch? Mountains. The mountains are all at the Western end of the wall, near the Shadow Tower. But that end is only near the sea, it doesn’t actually meet it. It ends at a river. Sooooooooo, is The Hound’s vision contradictory? OR could there be two armies headed to the two ends of it? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/221 "2017-07-19T02:50:13Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > You know what I’ve just realized? What they don’t have at Eastwatch by the sea? Or anywhere NEAR Eastwatch? Mountains. The mountains are all at the Western end of the wall, near the Shadow Tower. > > But that end is only near the sea, it doesn’t actually meet it. It ends at a river. > > Sooooooooo, is The Hound’s vision contradictory? OR could there be two armies headed to the two ends of it? I think you’re reading ten billion times too much into it than is warranted. They’re not basing dialogue off of maps. The most likely explanation is that the is a mountain somewhere between Hardhome and Eastwatch regardless of what maps say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324.md?page=12)