# Game of Thrones 7.01 "Dragonstone" 7/16/17 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324 "2017-07-15T15:54:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/61 "2017-07-17T14:11:05Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > My rationalization is that Stannis DID leave a relative handful of soldiers there to hold the castle, under some sixth-ranked commander, and of course there were all the maids and other servants as well. But then they got word that Stannis and all his troops got slaughtered and did the math: there was no way they could ever hold that castle against whichever lord it got deeded over to next. So they grabbed anything portable of worth and discreetly vanished from the scene. Quite likely. Yet, the Small Council under Tommen and later Queen Cersei had plenty of warning that Daenerys was amassing a fleet to sail to Westeros. Dragonstone was likely to be chosen to be her bridge-head. Considering her napalm-spewing air support, the Lannisters were probably wise not to fight her there at all, although using dragons against a garrison might have resulted in so much damage to the castle that it could have been of limited use to Daenerys afterward. But if the Lannisters didn’t want to sacrifice troops loyal enough to fight under such terms, they had other options to render the castle close to useless to the invaders. If it had been me on the Lannister side, I would have turned it into a colony for Greyscale victims, and of other deadly diseases. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/62 "2017-07-17T14:19:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It was right after Sansa said how Ned was wrong for being too honor bound and someone else (I can’t recall at the moment) was wrong for being something else, so Jon’s response wasn’t what does a woman know, it was more, “so YOU have all the right answers”? He was saying be careful of your hubris that you know all the right things rather than dismissing her because she’s a woman. I agree. Jon has made the tough decisions in his role as a leader throughout the series. He sees the long game. He’s turned enemies into friends to cultivate new alliances. Sansa’s experiences are based on watching Cersei and Joffrey. Cersei ran off Tyrion who was and is one of the greatest advisors in Westeros and was almost undone by the High Sparrow, both based off her unfounded and petty anger. Jon is better than Cersei at leadership and Sansa is smart enough to know that. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/63 "2017-07-17T14:31:59Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > I think the actor playing Samwell Tarly has incriminating photos or something of the show producers. I don’t understand why we spend so much time on him and his storyline otherwise. > > Last night was an hour-long show. Did we really need two minutes of that time (or however long it was) set aside to show the drudgery montage of Sam cleaning chamber pots, pushing library carts, and spooning out watery soup? You can establish the same scenario in less than half that time. After about 15 seconds, I was thinking “Okay, we got it, let’s wrap this up and move on.” > > The frustrating thing is, I LIKE Sam, and I want him to wind up being one of the heroes who saves Westeros from the Night King. But geez Louise – most of the scenes with him are just painfully slow, and do nothing whatsoever to advance the plot. Last night was a prime example. I bet Sam was on-screen for eight to 10 minutes. Even if he’s the one who winds up sitting on the Iron Throne somehow, the amount of time we’re spending on his storyline right now is out of kilter compared with others. The show is called _Game of Thrones_, not _Game of Chamber Pots_. It is inevitable that Sam will be a game-changer. Maybe he’ll discover that the White Walkers are allergic to cinnamon or something. But something he finds in his drudgery will be important. Bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/64 "2017-07-17T14:33:26Z")
It won’t matter if he ends up being the most important character and saves the day - we’ve spent way, way too much time on his boring storyline throughout the series. When I rewatch the series, almost any scene involving Sam or Gilly are about 80% of what I skip. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/65 "2017-07-17T14:43:17Z")
This was a Table Setting episode but it’s good to be back in this world again. A few thoughts: The Citadel montage was funny but I could have done with a few less views of logs in bed pans I read that the Ed Sheeran scene was a gift form the creators to Maise Williams as she is a big fan of his. I think that’s cute. I am positive that they framed that scene to play off our expectations of how almost every outcome in this who is the worst, most violent outcome. Was the other solider famous too? He looked like the guy who plays Loki’s younger brother. Of course the “Gift” Jerk Face Greyjoy is going to try and get is Tyrion. It has to be right? I liked how The Hound’s examples of better men were clearly references to Ned and the Preacher from last season. I have seen elsewhere that the farmhouse was the same farmer and daughter that took The Hound and Arya in a few seasons back. I did not realize that while watching. I liked how Sansa voiced to Jon what the audience has been saying for years. I also liked that the one time someone says it they are probably wrong. Jon made the right call there, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/66 "2017-07-17T14:57:08Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I have seen elsewhere that the farmhouse was the same farmer and daughter that took The Hound and Arya in a few seasons back. I did not realize that while watching. This was hinted at in showing the Hound’s reluctance to stop at that house. He clearly had some memories there. As for Euron capturing Tyrion, certainly that would be an appropriate gift for Cersei, but I’m skeptical if he can pull it off. Tyrion is hanging around Dany, and she is well protected. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/67 "2017-07-17T14:58:19Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It won’t matter if he ends up being the most important character and saves the day - we’ve spent way, way too much time on his boring storyline throughout the series. In re-watching some of last season’s episodes, I was struck by one scene: Sam, Gilly and Little Sam get off a cart, trek across some grass, and then stand gazing at Oldtown across a bay. They’re a few miles from it. What bothered me about that was, there was no easy way to get to Oldtown from where they were. The coastline was all valleys and hills, and there was no boat landing or dock near them. They were going to have to walk a long, long way to get to the Citadel. That little scene took about a minute. _Sam arrives at Oldtown_. Got it. But they could have done the same thing by showing them in the cart and getting out IN Oldtown, or in front of the Citadel. The way the scene was displayed made no sense whatsoever. It was just wasted screen time with Sam. Again. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/68 "2017-07-17T15:11:33Z")
What that scene did was to let us see Oldtown and the Citadel at a distance, and it’s meant to be an awesome site. Upclose, we would not have gotten such a nice view. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/69 "2017-07-17T15:15:45Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I have seen elsewhere that the farmhouse was the same farmer and daughter that took The Hound and Arya in a few seasons back. I did not realize that while watching. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > This was hinted at in showing the Hound’s reluctance to stop at that house. He clearly had some memories there. This was confirmed by someone-or-other that works on the show in the behind-the-scenes bit after the episode. He mentions that the Hound showed a lot of character development going back to the farmhouse he went to before ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/70 "2017-07-17T15:20:13Z")
I did note the similarity between how Sansa was treated after Ned was declared a traitor and how she wanted the children of the Umbers and Karstarks to be treated. She was penalized for being the daughter of Ned Stark, you’d think she would have at least a little sympathy for the children of the others. And that the kids were in the hall with them, how cruel was she to discard those kids so easily as she once was. I’ve gone back to disliking Sansa. I’m not sure what she has contributed thus far beyond the fact that Baelish lusts for her. ---
**Author:** ![jkirkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@jkirkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkirkman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/71 "2017-07-17T15:24:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It is inevitable that Sam will be a game-changer. Maybe he’ll discover that the White Walkers are allergic to cinnamon or something. But something he finds in his drudgery will be important. Bet on it. Depending upon which way the writers go, he may have already made a good start on this. I thought his discovery of the location of the largest known quantity of dragon glass in the world was the pivotal plot moment of the night. This could bring Jon and Dany into contact immediately (and with converging interests) long before Bran can get all the pieces put together and convince anyone of their blood ties. Jon currently holds the north and wants the Lannisters dead but doesn’t really want the Iron Throne–what he _wants_ is dragon glass, help in the north, and hey, fire-breathing dragons might be useful against an army of frozen and undead. Dany doesn’t currently know or care about the greater peril, but having the north behind her helps her politically, especially if it comes without a rival for the throne, and the dragon glass doesn’t help _her_ any. That said, being GoT, they will probably spend a few episodes arguing over something trivial and being stubborn about things. On a side note, Dany bottling up Euron’s pretty new fleet in Blackwater Bay should make for an explosive Greyjoy family reunion as soon as next week, whilst also neatly avoiding the geographical complications of Dany helping Yara when the Iron Islands are on the other side of the bloody continent from [Dubrovnik] Kings Landing. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/72 "2017-07-17T15:31:39Z")
I’d say this was a great first episode for the new season. Loved the Frey mass poisoning. Great to have Jim Broadbent join the cast (the autopsying archmaester). Just about all the cast got a quality moment or two. And that was definitely Ser Jorah in quarantine with greyscale. Best lines: Tormund Giantsbane to Pod after Brienne smacked him around: “You’re a lucky man!” Sansa: “No need to seize the last word, Lord Baelish. I’ll assume it was something clever.” Thoros: “Why are you always in such a foul mood?” The Hound: “Experience.” Ed Sheeran’s cameo didn’t bother me. I’d heard of him but never seen him before. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Once Samwise is sitting on the Iron Throne, that won’t be a problem… A crossover from _The Lord of the Rings_? Cool! > [@SuperNelson](#): > > Poor Jaime has to be feeling some strong deja vu. The queen on the Iron Throne has burned a significant part of King’s Landing, and seems to be going crazy after losing her children. Isn’t this how he got his nickname? Wildass speculation here, but I suspect Jaime is going to be earning a new nickname by the end of the whole series: “Queenslayer.” You only hurt the ones you love. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The only way those soldiers wind up dead is if they attack Arya and she has to kill them in self defense. If she murders them just for being part of the Lannister army, she becomes irredeemable. That would destroy the emotional payoff when she kills actual bad guys. And besides, the show had just shown Arya to be very discriminating in who she killed. She spared the servant girls, for example… Agreed. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > … Also, I was confused about the landing at Dragonstone. I knew that Stannis had taken his military forces with him, but I never thought the place would be completely abandoned. Surely someone would have been occupying such a valuable asset? I kept expecting an attack. And I was wondering why they went ashore with such a small party. Then I thought maybe they had already negotiated a surrender. But hey, the front doors weren’t even locked. Also agreed. And if I were Dany I would at least send some Unsullied ahead of me to scout it out. A single bowman could kill her and poof, there goes the invasion. > [@Quimby](#): > > …I liked how The Hound’s examples of better men were clearly references to Ned and the Preacher from last season. I have seen elsewhere that the farmhouse was the same farmer and daughter that took The Hound and Arya in a few seasons back… Yes, remind of what happened then - did the Hound steal from them? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/73 "2017-07-17T15:39:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes, remind of what happened then - did the Hound steal from them? It was in the previously on, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/74 "2017-07-17T15:58:11Z")
I watch the show streaming on HBO Now, and in the “previouslies” they showed the Hound and Arya at that cottage - the Hound was going to kill them and told Arya he was doing them a favor. Did they not show that scene on the regular broadcast? I didn’t think there was any ambiguity at all that it was the same farmer, even before the Hound didn’t want to stay there. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/75 "2017-07-17T16:00:28Z")
I know they were at the cottage, but ISTR that the Hound took all their money (and extra food?) but, at Arya’s urging, let them live, even as he predicted they wouldn’t survive the winter. Or did he not steal from them? ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/76 "2017-07-17T16:12:59Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It is inevitable that Sam will be a game-changer. Maybe he’ll discover that the White Walkers are allergic to cinnamon or something. But something he finds in his drudgery will be important. Bet on it. He did. In this episode. He discovered that Dragonstone is sitting on a mountain of Dragonglass. Now Jon and Daenerys have something each other needs. He has the North and she has the Dragonglass needed to defeat the White Walkers. This will be how they ally. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/77 "2017-07-17T16:13:54Z")
It’s been twelve hours and there is no mashup of the Sam montage with Money. I am discussing disappointed in you, Internet. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/78 "2017-07-17T16:15:11Z")
It was pretty ridiculous for Dany to land and then walk into the castle with absolutely no scouting or anything going ahead. I’ll assume that in fact there were unsullied scouts just off-screen who’d already checked for assassins and riff-raff. I enjoyed the Sam scenes. I thought the montage went on just long enough that we got a teeny bit bored of it, which gave us a bit of sympathy for Sam. I like that both Sansa and Jon had good points in their argument, but I hope they continue to trust and like each other, given that they’re the only two Starks in the same place (although Bran might be joining them soon). I’m curious what Arya does next. Presumably she does in fact intend to go to King’s Landing and kill the queen, and seems likely she has the necessary skills to do so, but obviously that won’t happen soon as that would be an incredibly anticlimactic end for Cersei. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/79 "2017-07-17T16:17:29Z")
Yep, they did it briefly in the recap. They took in the Hound and Arya, gave them food and treated them well, and then the Hound hit the guy and stole all his silver as they were leaving, saying something like “They’ll be dead when winter comes anyway.” This is probably even worse in Westerosi culture – they seem to make a big deal about respecting hospitality, as also referenced in the discussion of the Red Wedding. I kind of suspect the gift Euron brings will be taking out the Sand Snakes somehow, because (1) It makes sense to wrap that story up pretty quick and move on to the ones people care about, and (2) I don’t really think his wooden ships have a chance against Daenerys and her dragons. I thought Sansa’s advice of basically “Don’t be stupid like Dad and Rob” was good, but I actually thought Jon _was_ being smart by not making enemies of the surviving Karstarks and whoevers. I thought the lesson of the previous Starks was “You can’t survive in Westeros if you’re willing to make enemies just for the sake of honor.” If the rest of the Northerners had hated him for not further punishing the two houses, it might not have been smart, but they all seemed to be OK with his reasoning. **wintertime** makes a good point above that Sansa’s questioning actually gave him a good opportunity to explain his reasoning, and would have drawn out any other strong objections from the other lords. Really, the smartest thing would be for a king to encourage everyone to speak openly when they disagree, and to genuinely consider their arguments, but to still insist they obey his ultimate decision. (And then keep a _really_ close eye on anyone who’s frequently disagreeing with him.) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324/80 "2017-07-17T16:18:11Z")
On one of the pages in Samwell’s book, it mentions using dragonglass as a medicine. IT also mentions that the doom mixed all the gold and dragonglass in to the ground and made impossible to mine. (Or something close, you can’t quite read the whole page.) I wonder if that will turn out to be the cure for greyscale? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-01-dragonstone-7-16-17-show-discussion/791324.md?page=5)