# Game of Thrones 7.02 "Stormborn" 7/23/17 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 23, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955 "2017-07-23T17:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/121 "2017-07-24T21:42:53Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I could be wrong but Sansa did acknowledge on screen that she just accepts that Arya’s dead and has moved on from it. Then Brienne is going to have some splaining to do, when Arya shows up. Sup sis, didnt battleaxe mention her fight with the hound, when I was there. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/122 "2017-07-24T21:48:14Z")
No, there was a scene last season where Brienne told Sansa she ran into Arya but lost her. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/123 "2017-07-24T21:49:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I have trouble imagining that Cersei would play politics with Ellaria rather than just torturing to death the woman who murdered her daughter. She’s never been able to see past the short term. And I can’t see Ellaria accepting. But Ellaria might be crucial for Dany in maintaining the alliance with Dorne, so Dany might want to get her back. Oh, i did not say that Cersei was going to treat her like a princess, the chick is going to the rack or meet the mountain. Just that she is going to be heavily counceled by Jaime and others, that business before pleasure. > [@Colibri](#): > > With their fleet destroyed, Yara and Theon are of no further use to the alliance and present a complication if the war is eventually won and they still want independence for the Iron Islands. Dany has no incentive to rescue them. Well, we don’t know what Yara’s ultimate fate will be, but if she is in the next cell to Allaria, no reason not to rescue her. Dany can always get more ships, but captains she cant trust is another story. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/124 "2017-07-24T21:49:24Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I could be wrong but Sansa did acknowledge on screen that she just accepts that Arya’s dead and has moved on from it. > [@Declan](#): > > Then Brienne is going to have some splaining to do, when Arya shows up. Sup sis, didnt battleaxe mention her fight with the hound, when I was there. As has been mentioned, Brienne told Sansa that Arya was alive and with the Hound in Episode 2 of last season, just after she rescued Sansa from Ramsay’s men. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/125 "2017-07-24T22:01:58Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Well, we don’t know what Yara’s ultimate fate will be, but if she is in the next cell to Allaria, no reason not to rescue her. Dany can always get more ships, but **captains she cant trust** is another story. Bolding mine. I assume that “cant” is a typo, but Yara has been a bit of a screwup so far in being taken by surprise by her uncle and losing her fleet. And I don’t think the Ironborn have a reputation for trustworthiness in general. (Maybe good seamanship, but you wouldn’t trust one out of your sight.) Yara might be rescued as an afterthought if a mission was sent, but she has no value as a hostage or a bargaining chip. Since she’s a threat to Euron as an alternative ruler, she won’t last long once Euron and Cersei realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/126 "2017-07-24T22:16:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Bolding mine. > > I assume that “cant” is a typo, but Yara has been a bit of a screwup so far in being taken by surprise by her uncle and losing her fleet. And I don’t think the Ironborn have a reputation for trustworthiness in general. (Maybe good seamanship, but you wouldn’t trust one out of your sight.) > > Yara might be rescued as an afterthought if a mission was sent, but she has no value as a hostage or a bargaining chip. Since she’s a threat to Euron as an alternative ruler, she won’t last long once Euron and Cersei realize that. Yes, that was a Typo Definitely an inteligence fuck up, followed up by Yara’s fleet being stupid. But for all that, she was one of the first to step up when Dany needed it in the war room and Dany rewards loyalty. If a rescue is mounted, her disposition is going to be one of the secondary objectives. At the very least, she (they, if she gets turned over to Cersei) is privy to the impending assault on Casterly Rock, then you want to be able to deny any other intel she may possess, and that might mean killing her. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/127 "2017-07-24T22:40:49Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Speaking of which, it doesn’t seem like Randyll Tarly has even noticed that his priceless Valyrian steel sword has gone missing? He’s surely noticed by now. But I can’t imagine that any noble would publicly draw attention to the theft of their ancestral sword by their unfavored son. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A pretty good episode, I thought. I particularly liked the scene with Dany and Varys as she grilled him, made him admit his past scheming and extracted his promise of future candor as her advisor. I also enjoyed that scene, but it felt like it came way too late. I thought this was a discussion that Daenerys should have had with Varys the moment he offered his services, or shortly thereafter. Again, great scene, but its odd timing put me off balance. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/128 "2017-07-24T22:45:21Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I also enjoyed that scene, but it felt like it came way too late. I thought this was a discussion that Daenerys should have had with Varys the moment he offered his services, or shortly thereafter. Again, great scene, but its odd timing put me off balance. This is the third episode they’ve been in the same place at the same time. The previous two scene were just her leaving Mereen and her arriving at Dragonstone. Dramatically this was pretty much the first opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/129 "2017-07-24T22:45:56Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I also enjoyed that scene, but it felt like it came way too late. I thought this was a discussion that Daenerys should have had with Varys the moment he offered his services, or shortly thereafter. Again, great scene, but its odd timing put me off balance. Right. She grilled Tyrion on his motives as soon as he offered his services. Surely she knew about Varys involvement in the plots against her before that point. She exiled Jorah for it even after he had saved her life (the first time). ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/130 "2017-07-24T22:50:56Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Bringing over the Dothraki was a mistake. During this episode the scene where they talked about her goal being to take over Westeros as gently as possible because she could clearly wreck their shit indicates that she has more than enough military force without the Dothraki, and she’s trying to conquer in a way that wins the support of the local people. > > So then why bring the Dothraki at all? The unsullied are fine - the fact that they won’t loot and pillage and alienate the local populace means they won’t work against her cause. People will just view them as foreign mercenaries, which is something that probably happens fairly often in the wars in Westeros. Stannis employed foreign mercenaries for example. > > But the Dothraki are foreign invaders. Their way is to pillage and terrorize. They’re also unheard of in the seven kingdoms - Cersei is rightfully playing up that bringing a Dothraki horde to Westeros is unprecedented. Everything about their presence runs contrary to her goal to win the people of Westeros over. > > Now… if they had made a case that she barely had the military force to be able to conquer the seven kingdoms and needed the Dothraki, so be it. But the planning meeting basically said “okay, obviously we can conquer King’s Landing instantly, but we need to use a gentle touch” indicates that she has more than enough force and the Dothraki are purely counterproductive. I agree entirely. Speaking of Dany’s armies, how is she feeding them? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/131 "2017-07-24T22:55:53Z")
Horse meat? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/132 "2017-07-24T22:56:04Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Speaking of Dany’s armies, how is she feeding them? Even more mysterious is what she’s feeding her dragons. I suppose they could be fishing but that’s hard to do en route. And I expect that the Dothraki horses are looking mighty tasty after month on tuna. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/133 "2017-07-24T23:18:28Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > This is the third episode they’ve been in the same place at the same time. The previous two scene were just her leaving Mereen and her arriving at Dragonstone. Dramatically this was pretty much the first opportunity. They really should have just avoided the shot of him on the ships. It would have made so much more sense to arrive with Olenna and crew. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/134 "2017-07-24T23:24:57Z")
They’ve never really done much with logistics. Which is reasonable, because few people who have never handled large-scale movements have even the slightest inkling of what that entails. And it makes Sam’s drudgery look thrilling. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/135 "2017-07-25T00:10:51Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > …Sansa has some very valid points, but unless she’s completely duped as Littlefinger’s instrument of dissent she needs to express them behind closed doors. It’s King in the North, not Democracy in the North… Yeah, she really needs to learn the difference between a small council and a royal court. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > Speaking of which, it doesn’t seem like Randyll Tarly has even noticed that his priceless Valyrian steel sword has gone missing? Oh I’m sure he knows damn well Sam stole it. He just has bigger shit to deal with at the moment. > [@AK84](#): > > Re Samwell. I think many posters are missing the point. Like PappyTarly. Sam is one of the most effective of operators. The work he does is boring, repetitive and at times disgusting. Too much for the glamourous high born. Yet it is he who figured out how to kill White Walkers and where to get the materials. And now how to fix Jorah. Good point. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > In the throne room, to her face, with the Queen’s Guard standing on all sides? It doesn’t surprise me at all that anyone savvy enough to be running a Great House would hold their tongues in that situation. Yeah, anyone unfortunate to be in the Crownlands is going to publicly whatever bullshit explanation Cersei came up with (probably something along the lines of the wicked High Sparrow stockpiling wildfire in the Great Sept). It begs the question about why any lords from outside the 3 (at best) kingdoms she controls would actually show up when she summoned them. > [@TruCelt](#): > > It’s an interesting question, but I don’t think Jamie will stand for the torture, even of his daughter’s murderer. He had enough of that under the Mad King. For all the crap he’s taken about it, I think he wishes he’d killed Aerys sooner than he did… > ☹ What’s Jaimie going to do? He has less influence over her than she did over Joffrey. The only way he could stop her from doing anything would be to kill her, and we have 5 more episodes to get thru this season. > [@DrCube](#): > > …Tyrion is the only one “intact”, and even that was a close call, too, considering the slaver who wanted to sell his “magical” dwarf penis. Could think you have to show the prospective customer the penis attached to the dwarf first so they can tell it’s real. > [@Sweetums](#): > > Re: Euron’s fleet sneaking up on Yara’s. > > ``` > One factor could be that his ships were pretty much identical to hers, down to the kraken on the sails. So her fleet would have been riding at anchor, drinking and flirting with Dornish women, when what looks like part of the same fleet moves out of the darkness. "No problem, they must be stragglers just arriving, or moving to a different anchorage for the night...holy crud they're attacking!" > > ``` Yeah, it’s a civil war where both sides are to stubbornly insistent that they’re the legitimate claimant they insist on using the exact same symbols & flags. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Doran, according to Ellaria, was despised by most of Dorne. Thought of as weak and kowed. But yeah, this could cause a huge fucking split in Dany’s alliance. Could definitely see Tyrells and Martells infighting as a result of their loss of leadership… Ellaria had the support of the Martell bannermen & retainers; I’ve just assumed she declared herself Princess of Dorne with their blessing after killing Doran. > [@Colibri](#): > > …I never understood the logic of castrating the Unsullied pre-puberty, since they wouldn’t develop the musculature of males that went through normal adolescence. And Grey Worm and the others are pretty weedy looking. The idea behind the Unsullied isn’t that they’re bigger or stronger warriors; the castration combined with the training from Hell they receive is supposed to make them extremely disciplined & obedient soldiers, free from any of the distractions normal men have. Yeah it’s doubtful that would really work in practice, but it’s far from being the most implausible thing the show. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/136 "2017-07-25T00:15:44Z")
Did anyone else notice some scenes seemed sorta of blurry, kinda like they were filmed in 3D, but you don’t have the glasses? We were traveling yesterday and spent the night at a hotel. I dunno if it was the TV in the room being out of whack, or something about the show…we watched other stuff without any problem… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/137 "2017-07-25T00:39:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Did anyone else notice some scenes seemed sorta of blurry, kinda like they were filmed in 3D, but you don’t have the glasses? We were traveling yesterday and spent the night at a hotel. I dunno if it was the TV in the room being out of whack, or something about the show…we watched other stuff without any problem… Bran’s vision was very blurry. The sexy sex fade out blurred for a few beats first. But no, not anything out of the ordinary. ETA: The vision wasn’t this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/138 "2017-07-25T02:02:45Z")
The naval scenes had a bad case of shaky cam. For shame. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/139 "2017-07-25T02:13:32Z")
Arya’s almost complete lack of affect while talking to Hot Pie was worrying. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/140 "2017-07-25T02:28:49Z")
Ellaria Sand said to Yara “When we get to Sunspear …,” Suggesting that they were headed for Dorne, not Kings Landing. And I was surprised that they were so easily overcome by Euron. I would have expected they would be more of a match. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955.md?page=8)