# Game of Thrones 7.02 "Stormborn" 7/23/17 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 23, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955 "2017-07-23T17:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/141 "2017-07-25T02:29:06Z")
Those who are still confused about the Nymeria scene should re-watch this: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/cve-FeN9etg/maxresdefault.jpg "Arya Stark - No, That's Not Me - Game of Thrones 1x04 (HD)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cve-FeN9etg) That’s not me -\> That’s not you Its not that they are so different, it’s that they are the same in this way. Oh, and I was wrong about the " . . .that’s Sansa" part. She doesn’t say that. Brains is weird. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/142 "2017-07-25T02:43:28Z")
As for Theon, he suffered tremendous trauma. He’s not going to “get over” that, not this easily. He’s marked for life. He wasn’t just castrated. He was tortured for who knows how long. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/143 "2017-07-25T04:17:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Now… if they had made a case that she barely had the military force to be able to conquer the seven kingdoms and needed the Dothraki, so be it. But the planning meeting basically said “okay, obviously we can conquer King’s Landing instantly, but we need to use a gentle touch” indicates that she has more than enough force and the Dothraki are purely counterproductive. Of course she needs the Dothraki. You’re speaking to the situation as they found it when they arrived in Dragonstone, not when she recruited them or even when the fleet sailed. Also, she may have enough force to take King’s Landing, but that doesn’t mean it’s enough to take and hold the rest of Westeros. There was some conversation early on, after she acquired the Unsullied, that they wouldn’t be enough to take all of Westeros. (There are only 8,000, give or take, hardly enough to conquer an entire continent.) She recruited the Dothraki well before Varys negotiated the alliance with Olenna and Dorne. And she only found out that the North (and the Vale) was in rebellion against the Crown after arriving in Dragonstone. So Cersei’s position is much weaker than she knew when her armada sailed. Even with the plan for Dorne and Tyrell forces to take Kings Landing, the Dothraki could be used elsewhere in Westeros. And with Dorne seemingly out of the picture for the near future, they are even more necessary. Admittedly the Dothraki are a wild card, and their involvement will no doubt cause problems on both sides (since the Dothraki are in it for rape and pillage, which Dany won’t permit). But Dany certainly needs them at this point. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/144 "2017-07-25T05:39:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > As for Theon, he suffered tremendous trauma. He’s not going to “get over” that, not this easily. He’s marked for life. > > He wasn’t just castrated. He was tortured for who knows how long. And before that he was trained as a soldier for… most of his life. He was already a combat veteran before he made his ill fated return to the Iron Islands, and a skilled one, he was the one who led the group which captured Jamie. He also fought skillfully and bravely leading up to the confrontation with Euon/Yara. I could at least have believed it if he had been crying and hiding from the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/145 "2017-07-25T07:47:49Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No, there was a scene last season where Brienne told Sansa she ran into Arya but lost her. I’m reasonably sure I slept through a bunch of last season. Or gave up caring. Missed that though. The bit between Sansa getting out of Winterfell and heading back with an army seems to have disappeared… ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/146 "2017-07-25T08:55:40Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Sansa has some very valid points, but unless she’s completely duped as Littlefinger’s instrument of dissent she needs to express them behind closed doors. It’s King in the North, not Democracy in the North. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Yeah, she really needs to learn the difference between a small council and a royal court. That goes both ways. If she’s going to speak in a small council Jon needs to actually call one first, rather than just announcing controversial major decisions in front of everyone. Sansa’s got a right to have her view heard, and Jon values her enough to make her ruler in his absence. So why not tell her what he’s thinking and get her up to speed before the big meeting? “I’m fucking off now, cool? No? Tough. Oh, by the way, you’re in charge” is dramatic, but it’s hardly a surprise that Sansa had something to say about the “I’m fucking off” bit, especially as she had no idea about the “you’re in charge” bit. I’d say it was bad writing to have someone do something that obviously tactless and ill-thought through, but Jon is a Stark and they think having a plan is dishonourable, so it kind of fits. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/147 "2017-07-25T09:56:40Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Tyrion is the only one “intact”, and even that was a close call, too, considering the slaver who wanted to sell his “magical” dwarf penis. When we first met him, one of Tyrion’s most apparent qualities was his interest in sex. When he was on his way to meet Dany, he said that he had lost interest . But he was very depressed at that point. He doesn’t seem depressed anymore. Has he gone back to his old ways? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/148 "2017-07-25T10:27:56Z")
The Shae thing definitely made him uninterested in whores. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/149 "2017-07-25T11:28:38Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And before that he was trained as a soldier for… most of his life. He was already a combat veteran before he made his ill fated return to the Iron Islands, and a skilled one, he was the one who led the group which captured Jamie. He also fought skillfully and bravely leading up to the confrontation with Euon/Yara. > > I could at least have believed it if he had been crying and hiding from the beginning. Because you personally have definitive knowledge of all the ways that PTSD can possibly manifest and this is categorically ruled out? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/150 "2017-07-25T11:32:11Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > That goes both ways. If she’s going to speak in a small council Jon needs to actually call one first, rather than just announcing controversial major decisions in front of everyone. Sansa’s got a right to have her view heard, and Jon values her enough to make her ruler in his absence. So why not tell her what he’s thinking and get her up to speed before the big meeting? This is true, but it’s also fits Jon Snow’s character for it just not to occur to him. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/151 "2017-07-25T11:51:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Because you personally have definitive knowledge of all the ways that PTSD can possibly manifest and this is categorically ruled out? Since I have grown up in a military family with literally dozens of combat veterens, many of who did suffer from PTSD, then yes I do have a good idea. One thing which was common was that in a crises they tended to start fucntioning better, then what they normally did. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/152 "2017-07-25T12:14:38Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Since I have grown up in a military family with literally dozens of combat veterens, many of who did suffer from PTSD, then yes I do have a good idea. One thing which was common was that in a crises they tended to start fucntioning better, then what they normally did. And I’ve known people with PTSD who absolutely fall to pieces when faced with stress. What’s your point? Theon’s always been a weak-willed person. To call him “battle-trained” is a huge stretch, since he never faced a true combat situation before his return to Pyke, and even his successful raid on Winterfell was more the brainchild of his troops who treated him like a puppet and ultimately betrayed him. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/153 "2017-07-25T12:37:08Z")
You kidding? He was with Robb throughout all his early wins. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/154 "2017-07-25T14:15:12Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > And good point about Sansa knowing all about Baelish’s problems with the Vale. I had forgotten how much she knew. Maybe she’s scheming herself about ways to use this information. She has learned a thing or two about schemes, from Littlefinger and others. But yeah, straight up murdering him doesn’t seem like it would raise many objections at this point. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see Littlefinger die from an “accidental” fall from a Winterfell tower, and Sansa to go back to the Vale to tell and console wee Robin. If she doesn’t want to marry the kid herself, maybe some trusted bannerman’s young daughter (big boobs a plus) could be brought along to woo him. > [@Biggirl](#): > > …seeing Tyrion’s inherent kindness is paying off is making me feel a little bit better… Every time I think that, I remember what happened to his dad and his girlfriend. > [@silenus](#): > > They’ve never really done much with logistics. Which is reasonable, because few people who have never handled large-scale movements have even the slightest inkling of what that entails. And it makes Sam’s drudgery look thrilling. Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics, but TV audiences want action. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > …Yeah, it’s a civil war where both sides are to stubbornly insistent that they’re the legitimate claimant they insist on using the exact same symbols & flags… Generally true, although Stannis put the Lord of Light’s flaming heart on his banners and armor along with the Baratheon stag. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Arya’s almost complete lack of affect while talking to Hot Pie was worrying. Yeah, I noticed that. She barely met Hot Pie’s eye as she stuffed her face. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/155 "2017-07-25T14:19:28Z")
And that is different from regular Arya, how? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/156 "2017-07-25T14:26:40Z")
With Bran on the way back to Winterfell, did we ever see any interaction between him and Sansa at the start of the show? I think they were only in the first episode together. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/157 "2017-07-25T15:25:45Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And that is different from regular Arya, how? She showed a lot broader emotional range in Braavos. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > With Bran on the way back to Winterfell, did we ever see any interaction between him and Sansa at the start of the show?.. Not that I recall. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/158 "2017-07-25T15:31:04Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > She showed a lot broader emotional range in Braavos. That was before she started actively reducing the population of Westeros wholesale. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/159 "2017-07-25T15:34:34Z")
Yes. Considering most of her time in Braavos consisted of her being either blind or being caned by the Waif. So it was either “oh fuck” or “ow”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/160 "2017-07-25T15:44:40Z")
My big question is what happens between Jon and the Army of the North & Sansa when they find out he’s Ned’s nephew (not son) and half-Targaryan? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955.md?page=9)