# Game of Thrones 7.02 "Stormborn" 7/23/17 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 23, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955 "2017-07-23T17:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/161 "2017-07-25T16:10:59Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My big question is what happens between Jon and the Army of the North & Sansa when they find out he’s Ned’s nephew (not son) and half-Targaryan? Well Bran is also around (and apparently just hanging out at the Wall for no reason), who would be the Heir to Winterfell otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/162 "2017-07-25T16:19:58Z")
I thought Ms. Williams did a great job of showing the transition between dissociated revenge killer and human with a family and a home. She barely showed recognition when Hotpie was talking to her. It made him ask “What happened to you?” And you can see the struggle in her face as Arya wants to tell him but no one just wants to go murder Cersei. Her face softened and even her posture changed when she found out Jon was at Winterfell. And her “Good-bye” to Hotpie was fond. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLZC-ogsvV4) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/163 "2017-07-25T17:18:52Z")
Good point. The other thing about that scene is the difference between Arya’s experience and that of Hot Pie. (What a name, by the way.) She’s obviously been through a lot and been traumatized, while his existence has hardly been changed by the events in Westeros. I suspect that for most of the populace, all that happened affected them only slightly. (Unless, like the farmer and his daughter, they were robbed by someone like The Hound.) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/164 "2017-07-25T17:48:27Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Bringing over the Dothraki was a mistake. During this episode the scene where they talked about her goal being to take over Westeros as gently as possible because she could clearly wreck their shit indicates that she has more than enough military force without the Dothraki, and she’s trying to conquer in a way that wins the support of the local people. > > So then why bring the Dothraki at all? She can easily be ‘queen of the ashes’, if she just sets her dragons free to lay waste to the land. That doesn’t mean her unsullied soldiers alone could also easily take the land. Think about air power in WWII. The allies could have ‘won’ the war against Japan with few allied casualties if we were willing to just bomb them into the stone age. But if you actually have to invade and conquer, the estimates were that it would take 2 million soldiers. So Daeneris can burn Westeros with dragon fire, or she can take it with conventional forces. Nothing about the ability to do the first says that therefore the second can be done with minimal soldiers. But otherwise, you’re right. The Dothraki are not farmers. They aren’t looking for land to settle on. They are raiders, who require a constant supply of other people’s stuff to survive. Their entire culture is based on war and raiding. I suppose there will be some way out of this - for example, the Dothraki could wind up being obliterated in a battle with the walkers near the end of the war so we don’t have the messy problem of what to do with tens of thousands of aggressive barbarians after peace arrives. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/165 "2017-07-25T18:16:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > They deserved it. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/166 "2017-07-25T18:22:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Good point. The other thing about that scene is the difference between Arya’s experience and that of Hot Pie. (What a name, by the way.) She’s obviously been through a lot and been traumatized, while his existence has hardly been changed by the events in Westeros. I suspect that for most of the populace, all that happened affected them only slightly. (Unless, like the farmer and his daughter, they were robbed by someone like The Hound.) Quite the contrary, it’s made clear that the smallfolk bear the brunt of the war. Their homes are burnt, their crops stolen, burnt or rotten, their women raped,their children brutalized, and their men drafted to die for lords who don’t care about them at all. Hot Pie is an _extremely_ lucky SOB. He’s got a job he loves, at an establishment that serves soldiers, who happily spend their money there and want to see it remain standing. So far, he’s one of the few happy endings we’ve seen in the show. Let’s hope Dany doesn’t screw it up for him by having Drogon torch the inn for some reason or another. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/167 "2017-07-25T18:41:32Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Quite the contrary, it’s made clear that the smallfolk bear the brunt of the war. Their homes are burnt, their crops stolen, burnt or rotten, their women raped,their children brutalized, and their men drafted to die for lords who don’t care about them at all. > > Hot Pie is an _extremely_ lucky SOB. He’s got a job he loves, at an establishment that serves soldiers, who happily spend their money there and want to see it remain standing. So far, he’s one of the few happy endings we’ve seen in the show. Let’s hope Dany doesn’t screw it up for him by having Drogon torch the inn for some reason or another. Agreed. Hopefully it won’t turn out that Hot Pie’s famous cuisine is the only thing keeping morale up for the Lannister soldiers or something. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/168 "2017-07-25T18:56:26Z")
Weren’t Arya’s parting words to Hot Pie “Try not to die”? I took that as a sure sign he’s probably going to die soon. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/169 "2017-07-25T19:13:43Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Weren’t Arya’s parting words to Hot Pie “Try not to die”? I took that as a sure sign he’s probably going to die soon. She may have well said “I can’t wait to see your tragic and meaningless death.” Probably moments after Gendry shows up. Or maybe the very last shot of the show will just be Hot Pie at the inn, sort of a “life moves on” scene. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/170 "2017-07-25T20:26:10Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Agreed. Hopefully it won’t turn out that Hot Pie’s famous cuisine is the only thing keeping morale up for the Lannister soldiers or something. I loved the fact that Arya shares the fact that she’s also been making “one or two” pies lately. Maybe Hot Pie’s pies also include the odd Lannister soldier who goes missing en route. Arya could give him some pointers as well. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/171 "2017-07-25T22:47:49Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My big question is what happens between Jon and the Army of the North & Sansa when they find out he’s Ned’s nephew (not son) and half-Targaryan? Might make things alot easier with Jonsa ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/172 "2017-07-25T23:22:56Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > :smack: of course > > Would someone like Theon be more tortured by losing his sexuality, but not having the hormonal drive to want it, or by taking his means but not his desire? I’m not sure. Ramsay wanted to turn Theon into an obedient dog, so castrating him would have been the main point, I guess, with cutting Theon’s dick being only a nice bonus. > [@Declan](#): > > Well, we don’t know what Yara’s ultimate fate will be, but if she is in the next cell to Allaria, no reason not to rescue her. Dany can always get more ships, but captains she cant trust is another story. That’s _Game of thrones_. The only people who are going to be saved at the last moment from inescapable doom are Tyrion, Jon and Danaerys. Elleria will die horribly as everybody else (on top of it, it’s not like she’s a likable character, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/173 "2017-07-26T00:26:44Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s _Game of thrones_. The only people who are going to be saved at the last moment from inescapable doom are Tyrion, Jon and Danaerys. For the rest of this season, at least.😉 > [@](#): > > Elleria will die horribly as everybody else (on top of it, it’s not like she’s a likable character, anyway). Exactly. Elleria and the Sand Snakes are pretty vile characters, treacherously murdering children and their own kin purely out of revenge. They’re really no better than Cersei. While Yara is cool, she doesn’t have many real redeeming features either. She allied with Danaerys out of expediency, not because she has any interest in her cause. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/174 "2017-07-26T01:08:03Z")
My favorite thing about this season is now that the story has grown smaller we are mixing and matching characters in interesting ways. I could have probably watched 60 minutes of Dany’s Small Council just because we had Tyrion, Olenana and Varys all in a room. I have to admit, and I’m not sure why, but I expected the Red Woman to cause trouble for Jon Snow not support him when she arrived at Dragonstone. I guess her faith in Snow outweighs any anger she has for him exiling her. It was pointed out to me that the opening credits show the sea up by the wall freezing over so I guess we know how the Ice Zombies get around it. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/175 "2017-07-26T01:56:18Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s _Game of thrones_. The only people who are going to be saved at the last moment from inescapable doom are Tyrion, Jon and Danaerys. Elleria will die horribly as everybody else (on top of it, it’s not like she’s a likable character, anyway). I don’t really have any affinity for those tier characters, maybe with the exception of Yara. But in the preview for season 7, there is a scene in Kings Landing with the previously unseen dragon pit. But suffice it to say, Dany has to lose and have to retreat, for her to be offered sanctuary in the North in exchange for the dragon stone and her soldiers to bolster the northern armies and remaining dragons to launch air strikes on the undead. Dorne is gone, with Elleria’s capture, and probable death. All thats left is the Tyrells to besiege KL and not all her bannermen are behind her. Dany is left with the Dothraki and Unsullied, if the Tyrells are knocked out. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/176 "2017-07-26T02:40:14Z")
Speaking of House Tyrell; who exactly is Lord of Highgarden right now? :dubious: Olenna married into the family, and was only the de facto head of the family because she was so good at manipulating her husband and later her son (whom she completely dominated). Loras & Margaery didn’t have any (surviving) siblings, but do we know if Mace any siblings? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/177 "2017-07-26T03:29:30Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Speaking of House Tyrell; who exactly is Lord of Highgarden right now? :dubious: Olenna married into the family, and was only the de facto head of the family because she was so good at manipulating her husband and later her son (whom she completely dominated). Loras & Margaery didn’t have any (surviving) siblings, but do we know if Mace any siblings? We do not know this from the TV show. The Game of Thrones Wiki points out that one of Olenna’s handmaidens refers to Olenna as “Nana” in an episode in the third season, and is thus apparently her granddaughter. A family as important as the Tyrells probably has some cadet lines, but we have not met any of them. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/178 "2017-07-26T05:20:15Z")
I was watching some good old fashioned eunuch porn and a Game of Thrones episode broke out. So Grey Worm went pearl diving, sure, whatever. But did Missandei tickle his prostate? That’s true love right there. At this point I’d accept all the main characters dying horribly. All hail King Hot Pie, long may he bake. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/179 "2017-07-26T09:19:42Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > That goes both ways. If she’s going to speak in a small council Jon needs to actually call one first, rather than just announcing controversial major decisions in front of everyone. Sansa’s got a right to have her view heard, and Jon values her enough to make her ruler in his absence. So why not tell her what he’s thinking and get her up to speed before the big meeting? “I’m fucking off now, cool? No? Tough. Oh, by the way, you’re in charge” is dramatic, but it’s hardly a surprise that Sansa had something to say about the “I’m fucking off” bit, especially as she had no idea about the “you’re in charge” bit. > [@Acsenray](#): > > This is true, but it’s also fits Jon Snow’s character for it just not to occur to him. Thinking about this some more, Jon has recently had a sharp, rather pointed lesson in what happens when you don’t spend the effort to keep your inner circle on board with your plans. Not that Sansa would kill him (I wouldn’t put it past Lady Mormont though) but he knows that shit can go south if you don’t make sure the right people are happy with your plans. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955/180 "2017-07-26T14:05:18Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Weren’t Arya’s parting words to Hot Pie “Try not to die”? I took that as a sure sign he’s probably going to die soon. Oh come now. That boy has been stuffing acorns in his cheeks all summer. If anyone survives The Winter, it will be him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-02-stormborn-7-23-17/791955.md?page=10)