# Game of Thrones 7.03 "The Queen's Justice" 7/30/17 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 30, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453 "2017-07-30T18:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/101 "2017-07-31T19:08:49Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Euron’s magic godmode fleet is starting to get on my nerves. I’m not bothered by this except as the general speeding up the show has undergone recently. I would’ve loved a meeting in which naval strategy was planned, or perhaps some scenes showing the passage of time and all the hard work the Ironborn have put into building their fleet, but once we accept that they did, I don’t really think there’s a problem with what’s been shown. It’s not all that fanciful for a small island nation to be an outsize power through naval dominance - the tiny island of Great Britain ruled half the world that way. The idea of having a nation of great sailors disproprtionately effective to their national power is something supported in history. And having a great naval commander get the drop and the advantage on another fleet all of twice doesn’t strike me as implausible. I don’t think anyone on Dany’s side knew the Iron Fleet was such a threat early on and they weren’t prepared for it, whereas Euron had been doing nothing but preparing for it. They caught them flat footed which isn’t so implausible. And in the other case - the fleet that carried the unsullied was tasked more with the ferrying of troops than with fighting, so they probably were either not ships designed for naval combat, or at least didn’t have their usual crew and armaments. They didn’t expect to be intercepted, and when they were intercepted, the unsullied who could’ve at least participated in boarding were off ship. So they were potentially deployed for a landing and caught off guard - not a surprising victory for Euron. And both of the fleets that were attacked were following an obvious path - Euron would’ve had to have gone the same way as either fleet, travelling down and around the south end of the continent - it’s not like he found them in the middle of the Pacific ocean, it’s more like he found them traveling near the coast of where he knew they had to be. That said, the key moment in all of this is the Lannisters correctly predicting the attack on Casterly Rock and preparing for it. We didn’t even get a hint of such a scene - both because the season has been happening at break-neck pace with what feels like a lot of skipped scenes, and because he would’ve ruined the surprise (although could’ve still been hinted at, laying the groundwork). If you assume that team Cersei correctly anticipated team Dany’s plans, then having Euron actually go out and defeat these fleets is entirely plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/102 "2017-07-31T19:09:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What books? > > BTW, I was pleased that the archmaester didn’t expel Samwell for curing Jorah. He did tell Sam to copy a big pile of documents as punishment, but I wonder if the chore was also meant as a learning opportunity. Was there useful info in those scrolls? And is Samwell going to specialize as a healer? (Do maesters have specialties?) The material of their chains denotes their specialty; silver is medicine and healing. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/103 "2017-07-31T19:10:47Z")
Something I just remembered, and I’m not sure if I’m right: I got the idea that Mellisandre’s “we’re both going to die in Westeros” prediction to Varys had something to do with the words he heard in the flames when his junk was cut off and burnt. Am I the only one who caught that? Varys’s face looked similar to when the other Red Priestess whispered in his ear in Meereen. Definitely not his normal “I already know all that” face. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/104 "2017-07-31T19:11:04Z")
There are reports that HBO got hacked and a lot of data was stolen, including potentially scripts and episodes of Game of Thrones. So you should be on the lookout for people trying to spoil things for you. Such actual leaks/spoilers don’t belong in this thread, even boxed, I think. In the event that there is a big GoT leak, the people who want to spoil the story for themselves can make a new thread for it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/105 "2017-07-31T19:15:50Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Obsidian kills wights. [It seems to me some people are looking for any tiny little thing to nitpick this show.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOjIVd_7bsw) The video you linked to was over six minutes long; can you be more specific where a wight is killed using Dragonglass? I did see, at about 4:43, Jon use a Valyrian steel sword to destroy a White Walker. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/106 "2017-07-31T19:24:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The video you linked to was over six minutes long; can you be more specific where a wight is killed using Dragonglass? I did see, at about 4:43, Jon use a Valyrian steel sword to destroy a White Walker. Also 2 minutes in. But you are right, that’s Valyrian steel, not dragonglass. Still friggin terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/107 "2017-07-31T19:26:11Z")
A great episode, I thought. Really enjoyed it. > [@DrCube](#): > > He might not have had a specific gift in mind when he said he would bring Cersei a gift. He just figured he’d capture or kill somebody important… Yeah, he gives himself more flexibility this way for targets of opportunity as he sails about with his (extraordinarily lucky and effective) fleet. That way he doesn’t promise to nab someone in particular and run the risk of failing. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It strikes me that Cersei is completely out maneuvering Tyrion. Her father’s daughter indeed. And Iron Bank gold to come… Promising to pay off the entire debt in a fortnight! Pretty gutsy, or stupid, or both. > [@Quimby](#): > > …Sad to see Olenna go. But glad she got a last thumb in Cresei’s eye and let them know who killed Geofrey. I wonder if that will change how she thinks about Tyrion? Probably not. It will help Jamie feel less guilty for helping him though I’m sure. Yes, Olenna was always great, and she went out with typical Queen of Thorns style. (Reminder on spellings, though: it’s “Cersei,” “Joffrey” and “Jaime”). > [@Declan](#): > > Its not that Cersei is out maneuvering Tyrion, its just that she has experienced people handling the pointy things, while she takes care of the political end. Cersei told the iron bank that in two weeks, she would repay the whole shebang, and how she does that is by taking high garden and all the tyrell gold… Have we been told before that the Tyrells are particularly wealthy? I only remember that being said of the Lannisters (when their mines were still productive). The Tyrells were known for their farming output, not their gold, I thought. > [@dasmoocher](#): > > She’ll probably let the Mountain rape Ellaria on a regular basis, like the shame nun, with the extra bonus for Cersei being the Mountain killed Ellaria’s lover. Wow. That’s pretty evil and twisted… aaaand thus, knowing Cersei, you’re probably right. Seeing mother and daughter, gagged and futilely straining at their chains to embrace each other, was one of the most horrifying images of this entire series, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/108 "2017-07-31T19:29:11Z")
Presumably the promise to pay back the bank within two weeks was because she knew they were planning to capture the Tyrell castle. And yes, we were told the Tyrells were wealthy. One of the big reasons that Oleanna’s granddaughter was to marry Joffrey (and then did marry Tommen) was because they were bringing a lot of money into the capital. It was understood then that the Lannister fortune was mostly gone and so Tywin needed the Tyrell wealth to support the crown. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/109 "2017-07-31T19:30:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Promising to pay off the entire debt in a fortnight! Pretty gutsy, or stupid, or both. Based on conquering the Reach. If she didn’t do that, it wouldn’t matter if she couldn’t pay off the debt, she’d be basically dead. > [@](#): > > Have we been told before that the Tyrells are particularly wealthy? I only remember that being said of the Lannisters (when their mines were still productive). The Tyrells were known for their farming output, not their gold, I thought. The farming produce (not to mention wine) gets sold for money. Recall that Oldtown is in the Reach and it seems to have money flowing in spades. And Randall Tarly’s keep was quite luxurious when Sam visited it. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/110 "2017-07-31T19:30:59Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Have we been told before that the Tyrells are particularly wealthy? I only remember that being said of the Lannisters (when their mines were still productive). The Tyrells were known for their farming output, not their gold, I thought. Pretty sure you can trade food for gold. They didn’t eat everything they produced themselves, so getting paid in gold in exchange for grain and produce and what not makes sense to me, and I’m sure they would have the family money stored safely at the Reach. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/111 "2017-07-31T19:55:27Z")
Just had a thought (yeah, just the one just now), it would be a terrible march through enemy territory for the Unsullied to Dragonstone but a walk in the park to Da North. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/112 "2017-07-31T20:06:52Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Well the whole Three Eyed Raven thing is “difficult to explain” so I am not really sure either. But it could be a vision of future Sansa wedding (TERs can see the future says Bran), hopefully one in which she is a willing participant. Nope. Just before that Bran says something like “it’s a shame that it happened to you. In our own house.” So he’s clearly refering to her marriage with Ramsay. I think that the point is that she now knows that he truly have visions (rather than being a raving lunatic after spending fucking years tracked down, roaming around in the north and beyond the wall. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/113 "2017-07-31T20:17:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What books? > > (Do maesters have specialties?) Yes, they do. Each of the link in their chain stands for an area of study they specialized in. So, typically, they have _several_ specialties. For instance the original maester of Winterfell mentions he has studied magic, pointing at one of his links (to emphasize that magic isn’t real). ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/114 "2017-07-31T20:41:23Z")
If Ellenia (Sp?) dies in that dungeon, that’s essentially the end of the Dorne story which kind of makes the whole thing a waste of time other than a few good moments here and there with Martell and Doctor Bashir. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/115 "2017-07-31T20:43:55Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > If Ellenia (Sp?) dies in that dungeon, that’s essentially the end of the Dorne story which kind of makes the whole thing a waste of time other than a few good moments here and there with Martell and Doctor Bashir. Somebody had to kill Mycella. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/116 "2017-07-31T20:57:18Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > If Ellenia (Sp?) Ellaria. Ellaria Sand. > [@Biggirl](#): > > Somebody had to kill Mycella. Myrcella. Myrcella Baratheon. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/117 "2017-07-31T21:13:50Z")
Jon knows Bran is alive right? I thought it was a mistake when he told Daenerys that two of his brothers died also, but I seem to remember him finding out. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/118 "2017-07-31T21:13:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Ellaria. Ellaria Sand. > > Myrcella. Myrcella Baratheon. Keep it up. One day we’ll all be GRRM nomenclature doctorates just like you are! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/119 "2017-07-31T21:19:05Z")
1. The first one at least was a response to the direct question “(Sp?)” 2. No doctorate necessary. All that is needed is the bare minimum of care. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453/120 "2017-07-31T21:23:07Z")
If the White Walkers are killed, wouldn’t the wights die (again) as well? Or would they just wander around aimlessly? If the former, perhaps Tyrion’s statement is valid for all practical purposes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-03-the-queens-justice-7-30-17/792453.md?page=7)