# Game of Thrones 7.04 "The Spoils of War" 8/6/2017 \[Show discussion only\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955 "2017-08-06T22:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/221 "2017-08-08T01:19:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …But you know what might save the day? Marriage. And Daeneris already said that she was perfectly willing to marry someone if she needed to establish legitimacy. She told that to Daario Naharis when she said he had to remain behind in Mereen… Agreed. Daenerys would be perfectly content to leave Jon to his own devices in the North, and he’d only have to make the occasional appearance in King’s Landing on the odd formal occasion. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Re: the other two dragons, I believe they need riders to be effective in battle. The theory is that the other two riders will be Jon Snow and Tyrion (who is also suspected to be a secret Targaryen). I’ve never been completely convinced of the Tyrion theory, but they do keep pointing out how “the dragon has three heads” and all, so it might be true. Tyrion on a dragon (& I agree he doesn’t need to be a Targaryen to do that) would certainly make Cersei’s death scene more entertaining. > [@Biggirl](#): > > …Meanwhile, back at the ranch. . . was I the only one who noticed all the hints that I’m right in my assessment that Dany is going to tear down the monarchy and put some kind of Republic in its place?.. Maybe she’ll set up some kind of republic to follow her if (as suspected) she’s barren and can’t further her dynasty, but otherwise I think what she has in mind is to replace Westeros’s feudal monarchy with an absolute one. > [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Well she manages to hold on to Drogon without a saddle or reins in an elegant dress, so I reject practicality as reason for her wardrobe choice. As for not being on the battlefield…did we watch the same show? If Jaime had put his points into archery rather than melee she’d be worm food. Am I the only that’s bothered by them not putting saddles on the dragons? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/222 "2017-08-08T01:26:50Z")
I think if this had been the episode with the Ed Sheeran cameo there wouldn’t have been any whining. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/223 "2017-08-08T01:47:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Also, the Dothraki are superior mounted bowmen like the Mongols they appear to be loosely based on. That was devastating in the Mongol’s time, and would be equally devastating in Westeros. The Lannister soldiers were tightly grouped together, making them easy targets. To avoid being killed by hails of arrows, the men would have been forced to break ranks and scatter like they did with the dragon, and that makes them easy pickings for horse cavalry. Have we ever seen the Dothraki shoot or has anyone commented on their bow skills? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/224 "2017-08-08T01:47:44Z")
The whining about the whining a month after its been dropped is great though. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/225 "2017-08-08T02:09:11Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > Have we ever seen the Dothraki shoot or has anyone commented on their bow skills? They jumped on the backs of their running horses and shot arrows like bosses! There was so much action in that battle that blinking was dangerous to the viewer. So easy to miss things. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/226 "2017-08-08T02:27:15Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > Have we ever seen the Dothraki shoot or has anyone commented on their bow skills? I think Meister Luwin commented to Bran in season 1 about Dothraki children firing a bow from horseback. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Don’t forget that mounted cavalry has a massive mobility advantage. They can flank the Lannisters, forcing their lines to wheel, exposing them on the other side. > > Also mounted archers who can fire accurately on the move have a huge advantage against stationary soldiers. That was true in Mongol times, and it was even true of modern tank warfare. The M1A1 Abrams’ ability to target and shoot on the move was a decisive factor against Iraqi tanks in the first gulf war. It’s very hard to hit a moving target with a projectile. I’m not so sure. You have Dothraki unarmored light cavalry against formations of Lannister heavy infantry with shield and pike. Both sides have bow and arrow, but I suspect the Lannisters have the advantage of more advanced bows and not having to fire them from horseback. Also, remember how casually the armored Joran Mormont dispatched an unarmored Dothraki in single combat? If they didn’t have a dragon blasting holes in the Lannister lines for the Dothraki to pour through, I think the battle would not have been as decisive. So really it’s more like the Lannisters were the M1A1 tanks being attacked by squadrons of Humvees and a giant napalm spewing gunship. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/227 "2017-08-08T02:40:11Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think Meister Luwin commented to Bran in season 1 about Dothraki children firing a bow from horseback. > > I’m not so sure. You have Dothraki unarmored light cavalry against formations of Lannister heavy infantry with shield and pike. Both sides have bow and arrow, but I suspect the Lannisters have the advantage of more advanced bows and not having to fire them from horseback. > > Also, remember how casually the armored Joran Mormont dispatched an unarmored Dothraki in single combat? > > If they didn’t have a dragon blasting holes in the Lannister lines for the Dothraki to pour through, I think the battle would not have been as decisive. > > So really it’s more like the Lannisters were the M1A1 tanks being attacked by squadrons of Humvees and a giant napalm spewing gunship. The Dothraki that fought against Jonah the Andal was on foot; if he was mounted, Jorah never lives to get greyscale. Besides which, Jonah is an elite level fighter, having won tournaments as a knight. As was mentioned upthread, mobile accurate archery defeats stationary accurate archery. When the Unsullied are first introduced, it’s mentioned they are capable of repelling Dothraki charges because of the extreme discipline of their phalanx through years of conditioning. The Lannister army forms lines but isn’t an Unsullied phalanx. If Drogon isn’t on the field of battle, it’s still a Dothraki victory, easily, but with much greater losses for Dany’s troops. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/228 "2017-08-08T03:03:53Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > If Jaime had put his points into archery rather than melee she’d be worm food. One-handed archery is surprisingly difficult. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/229 "2017-08-08T03:09:39Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > . . . > Arya’s definitely going to save herself from a White Walker with that dagger right? > . . . > I have been thinking this for years now but this episode makes it plain: Dothraki are basically Klingons without the ridges. > . . . > The only downer is Bran. Bran’s a drip. When Littlefinger gave him the dagger, Dr. Branhattan (Love that, so perfect, and Klingons too.) asked if he knew whose it was. LF went off on the near murder of Bran, but my sense was that Dr. B was talking about the original owner centuries or more ago. Later, when he told Arya and Sansa “It was meant to kill me” I again had the sense that he meant a different “me” than they understood. I predict that eventually Arya will have to kill Dr. B, in one or another of his forms, with that dagger. Which connects up in my mind to the theory supposing that the Night’s King is somehow also Dr. Branhattan. > [@msmith537](#): > > Nobody taught her that. No, “No One” taught her that. Because the faceless men are many-faced, they are not just “One” they are many. (We are legion . . .) > [@magnusblitz](#): > > I slowed the scene down, and it’s definitely Bronn who saves Jaime. > > I admit I was really worried Bronn was going to get burninated, but possibly still take down Drogon. As it turns out, neither bought the farm (yet). I’d be really surprised if Jaime dies here. I can’t wait to see Bronn have to choose between Jamie and Tyrion. He’s made his feelings clear about Cersei, so I’m thinking Tyrion wins. Jamie sinking like Rhaegar, Cersei burning folks like Aerys, I’m starting to think the bastard twins theory is true. > [@Bone](#): > > I’m sure Cersei will be bringing in an unlimited number of forces from Essos. No other reason for that extended Iron Bank scene. > . . . The Golden Company will never go up against Dothraki. Plus, aren’t they still loyal to Second Darren? (Daario) Agree with whoever said last week that the Iron Bank of Braavos will support the “Breaker of Chains.” > [@Smid](#): > > There’s little reason to think Tyrion is a Targ according to the evidence we have in the show… > > If there was I would have hoped they’d have sown a bit more seeds. > . . . > a bit of massive leftfield plot direction change, though there’s isn’t anyone else to fill the role since Maester Aemon died… Agreed. Unless the Night’s King is the third? The man they made him from had fair hair, didn’t he? > [@GargoyleWB](#): > > I also think Brienne was just humoring her and half-assing the fight for most of it, until Arya got some surprise strikes in. The last few steps of the fight had Brienne locking Arya down with a smile. The way they grinned at each other at the end spoke volumes though. There was an element of joyful respect; they are two experts who have met their match. > [@Munch](#): > > Since we’ve pretty much run out of suitors for Sansa, I’m going to predict that she ends up marrying Dickon. . . LOL! I really hope that the past year has taught Sansa respect for Tyrion, and that they will end up being a real couple. Their two heads together could really solve a lot of problems. And he could help reset her moral balance. He’s the perfect partner for her. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Why did Sansa look upset after the Arya/Brienne training session? She knows the level of horrific experience required to obtain that kind of skill. What she saw Arya do wasn’t the result of working with some “dancing master.” She’s gaining a sense of how much her sister has been through, and what she is capable of. > [@Kinthalis](#): > > . . . > Can we have a marry, kill, screw list for every episode? ;p > . . . I’ll play: Kill: Littlefinger (because he’s a snake in the grass.) Screw: Dickon (He seems so eager to please. . .) Marry: Tyrion (See reasons under “Sansa” above.) > [@Quimby](#): > > . . . > If she sticks around long enough I would bet Arya will get taken aback when she sees Sansa run circles around the other Northern Lords in one of their meetings. > . . . I think she’ll enjoy the heck out of it! I just hope that Arya and Lady Mormont become friendly. If they ever disagree the resulting donnybrook could destroy Winterfell. LOL! > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > . . . > I forsee Death By Committee that way. > > Time to start pruning to keep things from getting unwieldy. I think Misandei needs to go. And Varys. Give Jorah a moment of heroism and then off him. Let Tormund die at Eastwatch. Let Arya take care of Littlefinger ASAP. Yara can somehow make an attempt on Euron and die for it. Theon…out. > . . . > Time to thin the herd. Tormund has to ride off into the sunset with Brienne. It is known. Missandei’s story is basically closed as soon as Grey worm returns to her. Theon has to sneak in and kill Euron to save Yara. It’s the only way. Euron has to die horribly. Jorah should get wants he wants most, (or second-most,) the chance to die saving his queen. Bronn should take over the Twins. He can’t help but be a better leader than the Freys. > [@arles](#): > > I recall hearing that the producers were in discussion with HBO that each episode next season would be 2 hours. I think they have realized they are running out of episodes. > > ETA: [Game of Thrones’ Final Season Could Have All Feature-Length Episodes | Vanity Fair](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/game-of-thrones-season-8-feature-length-episodes) I can’t imagine how the production wouldn’t suffer. seven or ten full-length films shot in one year? Not unless they just never went home from the last set. As it was, they were doing the equivalent of five (10 episodes @ 1 hour each) and they had to cut back. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/230 "2017-08-08T03:27:07Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > One-handed archery is surprisingly difficult. I dunno, Qyburn could probably sort something [like this](http://www.brandonfla.com/onehandedarchery/) out for him fairly easily, if he’s finished building scorpions. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/231 "2017-08-08T04:31:11Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > The Golden Company will never go up against Dothraki. Plus, aren’t they still loyal to Second Darren? (Daario) Agree with whoever said last week that the Iron Bank of Braavos will support the “Breaker of Chains.” Those are the Second Sons. The Golden Company is another group of so-far-unseen mercenaries. ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/232 "2017-08-08T06:10:39Z")
Bran can’t see /doesn’t know the future. He’s surprised when he sees Arya, stating “I saw you at the crossroads… I thought you might go to King’s Landing.” I doubt he was just making polite conversation. Given Randyll Tarly’s statement about how spread out the line of wagons and thus the army was, it’s debatable how big of a loss the battle was in terms of food supply and men. Certainly significant but probably not total, some portion of both will escape or be captured. Drogon doesn’t seem to be seriously wounded. It looked more like the shock of being hurt. He made no attempt to fly during his uncontrolled dive and then he recovered, hovered, attacked and made a soft landing. It looked painful but not terribly deep, judging by how much of the bolt was still sticking out when Daenerys was trying to pull it free. Hindered by the barbed tip, no doubt. That was in a presumably lightly armored and flexible area near the wing/shoulder joint. Qyburn’s scorpion doesn’t seem to have real killing power against an adult dragon, but used in an “anti-aircraft” mode, aiming for the wings and letting gravity do the killing, especially in large numbers, it would work just fine. The problem would be that unless they were hit solidly enough and at a great enough height to ensure a fatality or incapacitation, the dragon could “switch to tank mode” and go on a ground level rampage. They would need larger/more powerful weapons to seriously injure a dragon. Yes the scorpion’s bolt punched through Balerion’s skull in the Red Keep, but that skull had been sitting out for ~200 yrs and was unarmored by scales and flesh. I doubt the bolts were poisoned, if dragons are even vulnerable to poison and if Qyburn had both knowledge and access to large quantities of said poison. Unless it was something utterly stupid that men are not vulnerable to at all, given how the bolts were just laying out on the platform. I’m not sure if that was Randyll attempting to extinguish the flames on him by diving into the water. It looks like an older, balding guy that could be him, but he’s taking off a helmet and we never see Randyll wearing or even carrying a helm. Jaime’s swordsmanship seems to have improved since Dorne. He strikes down 2-4 footmen and defends against the Dothraki still on horseback before that one is killed by Dickon. I thought it was interesting that during Bronn’s run for the scorpion he pulled a Westerosi broadsword that was pinning a Lannister corpse to a wagon. Lots of possible reasons for that little tidbit. Meaningless in the overall scheme, but neat. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/233 "2017-08-08T06:21:55Z")
Pleasepleaseplease let Bronn live long enough to see Dickon and Euron be introduced to each other. ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/234 "2017-08-08T06:51:36Z")
Also I thought it was interesting how Jon was telling Dany about how the First Men and the Children of The Forest joined together to fight the White Walkers when he doesn’t know the whole story of how the Walkers are basically a weapon that got out of control, created by The Children to be used to defend against The First Men in a genocidal war. I also find it ironic that every time anyone from Essos is asked why they follow Dany they say it’s because they chose to. Missandei’s little speech about how they don’t follow her because of her birthright is especially hypocritical considering that’s exactly what they’re trying to force Westeros to do now and Davos, if no one else, should have been quick-witted enough to call her on her bullshit. You’re a conquering, army and you’re trying to minimize the damage to the population and infrastructure, hearts and minds kind of stuff. Dany getting all pissed because Jon won’t bend the knee is just stupid given her so-called stance on choice. But we know that’s mostly propaganda anyway. It may be true for the elite like Missandei or Grey Worm but I seriously doubt if the average Dothraki or Unsullied wanting to go back would get a ship and a kiss on the cheek. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/235 "2017-08-08T06:58:43Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > All the food is gone though, so unless they can eat gold they are probably worse of. On the bright side, there are a lot fewer mouths to feed now. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/236 "2017-08-08T07:58:19Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Jamie sinking like Rhaegar, Cersei burning folks like Aerys, I’m starting to think the bastard twins theory is true. How do you mean? Rhaegar was killed at a river ford, but Robert warhammered him to death, not drowned. > [@](#): > > Agreed. Unless the Night’s King is the third? The man they made him from had fair hair, didn’t he? Fun fact: the actor who plays the turned First Man is the same guy who currently plays the post-transformation NK (another guy played him/it previously). > [@ryan](#): > > Drogon doesn’t seem to be seriously wounded. It looked more like the shock of being hurt. He made no attempt to fly during his uncontrolled dive and then he recovered, hovered, attacked and made a soft landing. It looked painful but not terribly deep, judging by how much of the bolt was still sticking out when Daenerys was trying to pull it free. Hindered by the barbed tip, no doubt. That was in a presumably lightly armored and flexible area near the wing/shoulder joint. If 80s movies have taught me anything, a gunshot wound to the shoulder is harmless and can be fixed with a torn off piece of shirt. No nerve damage or permanent mobility problems will result. I was cringing when she was pulling it out. I mean, dragon doctors are probably in short supply, but maybe she should wait until she gets back to Dragonstone to work on the bolt. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure if that was Randyll attempting to extinguish the flames on him by diving into the water. It looks like an older, balding guy that could be him, but he’s taking off a helmet and we never see Randyll wearing or even carrying a helm. Yes, that guy. I thought it might’ve been, but a google suggests that he’s still alive or at least unaccounted for. > [@](#): > > I thought it was interesting that during Bronn’s run for the scorpion he pulled a Westerosi broadsword that was pinning a Lannister corpse to a wagon. Lots of possible reasons for that little tidbit. Meaningless in the overall scheme, but neat. The guy twitches, though it’s not clear if he’s supposed to be still alive, or the pull jerked him, or the extra moved and nobody caught it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/237 "2017-08-08T10:32:16Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Just a bit tired of the goodness of Daenery’s and the noble savage Dothraki. I’m not sure where you have seen the Dothrakis depicted as _noble_ savages. > [@Quimby](#): > > ETA: Regarding Theon: he wasn’t captured. His own people fished him out. They treated him like that because they see him as a coward. Hmm…They told him that he must have fled if he survived. But…how exactly did _their_ ship survive? > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Also presumably she is controlling him to some extent with leg pressure, armor might interfere with that. Leg pressure? Works with horses, but with a dragon whose skin is thick enough to not be pierced by arrows? > [@msmith537](#): > > Both sides have bow and arrow, but I suspect the Lannisters have the advantage of more advanced bows and not having to fire them from horseback. More advanced? Not obvious. The Huns horse archers famously totally outclassed Roman foot archers. I suspect we’re in a similar situation here. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/238 "2017-08-08T10:42:42Z")
Everybody is noticing/complaining that events are rushed, with characters and armies “teleporting” all over the place, and without scenes showing the passage of time and the travels. So, it seems that the authors had too many events to cram into a limited number of episodes. But on the other hand, they made this season and the next one shorter supposedly because they didn’t have enough material to fill two complete seasons. So, I don’t understand what’s happening. Not enough material for more episodes but too much material to not rush through the story? On top of which these episodes are longer than usual. It doesn’t make sense. So, does someone know the reasons behind this? My guess was that maybe they wanted to have a bigger budget for each episode, and so removed filling material to add more battle scenes and such. But then : > [@DrCube](#): > > Pretty sure it’s because the actors are paid per episode, and talent has grown to be a significant portion of the budget. Is that correct? And it still doesn’t make sense to me. First, why would the actors accept to be paid the same for a longer episode than for a shorter one? And does it means thatr they’re paid the same if they spent two days working for a 20 second appearance in the episode and if they spent two weeks working for a 5 minutes appearance? And doesn’t HBO have an interest in broadcasting more episodes because of the advertisment money? ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/239 "2017-08-08T11:39:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Tywin was The Hand but I thought that was later in their lives. Again faulty memory but I seem to remember the kids were all born at Casterly Rock. There was not even a hint of their mother hanging around Kings Landing to get impregnated. Not that it makes it impossible but if it’s true then it’s very bad storytelling. It’s into that territory of the background being filling by something “which doesn’t exist”. > [@](#): > > There was a shot of a bald guy burning. It made me momentarily wonder if it was Tarly but I don’t think so. I would hope they would make it clearer when a character dies. He wasn’t a big character, and as for a bald man, it seems to infer he’s older and that would mean a leader or a lord. Few older soldiers like that in their army, I thought. > [@](#): > > It was not established that it was Joffrey. What did happen was Littlefinger did claim it was his and said Tyrion won it off him in a bet. That was obviously a lie. I’m not sure if that was simply to put the Starks in conflict with the Lannisters or if he actually knew who did it. It was the starting of the actual war. It caused Catelyn to kidnap Tyrion and start the war. I don’t think Ned was dead at that point. Basically the only logical person who could have done it was Joffrey, being the only one with access to dagger which was in Roberts possession. It seemed beyond Cersei’s abilities at the time… ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/240 "2017-08-08T12:10:52Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think if this had been the episode with the Ed Sheeran cameo there wouldn’t have been any whining. The shouts across the land as his head gets lopped off might equal the conclusion of the purple wedding… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=13)