# Game of Thrones 7.04 "The Spoils of War" 8/6/2017 \[Show discussion only\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955 "2017-08-06T22:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/241 "2017-08-08T12:17:15Z")
So Jon Snow can really knock up decent photographic picture of the Night King can’t he? Did he have his hand behind his back? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/242 "2017-08-08T12:21:17Z")
> [@ryan](#): > > Bran can’t see /doesn’t know the future. He’s surprised when he sees Arya, stating “I saw you at the crossroads… I thought you might go to King’s Landing.” I doubt he was just making polite conversation. It’s a literal blink and you’ll miss it, but he [sees the explosion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjLGYqc-poc) at the Sept of Baelor 4 episodes before it happens, as well as Drogon flying over King’s Landing which hasn’t happened yet. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/243 "2017-08-08T12:38:54Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > And doesn’t HBO have an interest in broadcasting more episodes because of the advertisment money? I don’t know how it works in Europe, but here in the US, HBO has no advertising (aside from promos for its own movies and programs). It relies entirely on subscriber fees. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/244 "2017-08-08T14:03:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Don’t forget that mounted cavalry has a massive mobility advantage. They can flank the Lannisters, forcing their lines to wheel, exposing them on the other side. > > Also mounted archers who can fire accurately on the move have a huge advantage against stationary soldiers. That was true in Mongol times, and it was even true of modern tank warfare. The M1A1 Abrams’ ability to target and shoot on the move was a decisive factor against Iraqi tanks in the first gulf war. It’s very hard to hit a moving target with a projectile. In a battle like this the archers aren’t aiming at one particular person. They are aiming in a general area and hoping to hit someone. Foot archers have the advantage over horse archers because they can use more powerful bows with greater range. Heavily armored infantry like the Lannister troops face little danger from horse archers provided they maintain their line. The lightly armed Dothraki would be cut down by the Lannister archers, especially when they charged. As you note, the Dothraki are more mobile, but the Lannisters had the river. They could have anchored both ends of their line on the river and prevented any flanking maneuvers. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/245 "2017-08-08T14:21:02Z")
:eek::eek::eek: Anyone want to apply to be a stuntman on GOT? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/246 "2017-08-08T14:39:56Z")
> [@treis](#): > > [[S7E4] The stuntmen on this show are dedicated. The dedication from the production team is not wasted on us. - GIF on Imgur](http://imgur.com/eZtcvFm) > > :eek::eek::eek: Anyone want to apply to be a stuntman on GOT? Can I be the guy on the left who didn’t get lit on fire but acted like he did? ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/247 "2017-08-08T15:23:33Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > …It was the starting of the actual war. It caused Catelyn to kidnap Tyrion and start the war. I don’t think Ned was dead at that point. Basically the only logical person who could have done it was Joffrey, being the only one with access to dagger which was in Roberts possession. It seemed beyond Cersei’s abilities at the time… Weren’t Jamie and Cersei the only ones who had a reason (or even knew that reason) to keep him quiet? Did Cersei say to Joffrey “You need to kill that Bran kid, because he saw your uncle and I boinking.”? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/248 "2017-08-08T15:28:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Weren’t Jamie and Cersei the only ones who had a reason (or even knew that reason) to keep him quiet? Did Cersei say to Joffrey “You need to kill that Bran kid, because he saw your uncle and I boinking.”? That’s how I remember it too, although it seems a little strange now, as the Jaime/Cersei hookups are worst-kept secret in the seven kingdoms. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/249 "2017-08-08T15:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought it was interesting that during Bronn’s run for the scorpion he pulled a Westerosi broadsword that was pinning a Lannister corpse to a wagon. Lots of possible reasons for that little tidbit. Meaningless in the overall scheme, but neat. Friendly fire perhaps, or a Dothraki picking up a sword and using it on a Lannister. The whole battle scene. especially Bronn’s dash through the chaos, was very well filmed. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/250 "2017-08-08T15:57:16Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > Weren’t Jamie and Cersei the only ones who had a reason (or even knew that reason) to keep him quiet? Did Cersei say to Joffrey “You need to kill that Bran kid, because he saw your uncle and I boinking.”? > [@zimaane](#): > > That’s how I remember it too, although it seems a little strange now, as the Jaime/Cersei hookups are worst-kept secret in the seven kingdoms. Was it a bad kept secret then? I thought everyone only found out after Ned sent out the raven to Stannis. Also, they were concerned both about Bran revealing that and about revealing that Jaime tried to kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/251 "2017-08-08T16:33:18Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Was it a bad kept secret then? I thought everyone only found out after Ned sent out the raven to Stannis. Yeah, back then when Robert was still alive, they were still trying very hard to keep it secret. Jon Arryn was apparently the first to discover it, because when Ned confronts Cersei he says, “I know the truth Jon Arryn died for.” And then he threatened to tell Robert next, which is what sparked the whole coup & his subsequent decapitation. Although it is noteworthy that he figured it out simply by putting two and two together; of course Bran didn’t tell him (since Bran claimed no memory of the event). So others could have suspected / come to that conclusion on their own as well. But I don’t think we have any evidence that it was well-known or suspected prior to Ned spreading the word. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/252 "2017-08-08T16:39:27Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Yeah, back then when Robert was still alive, they were still trying very hard to keep it secret. Jon Arryn was apparently the first to discover it, because when Ned confronts Cersei he says, “I know the truth Jon Arryn died for.” And then he threatened to tell Robert next, which is what sparked the whole coup & his subsequent decapitation. Do we know if Littlefinger found out that Jon Arryn found out? I assume if Jon told Lysa, she would’ve told Littlefinger, but can’t remember if Lysa knew. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/253 "2017-08-08T16:40:23Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Heavily armored infantry like the Lannister troops face little danger from horse archers provided they maintain their line. The lightly armed Dothraki would be cut down by the Lannister archers, especially when they charged. As you note, the Dothraki are more mobile, but the Lannisters had the river. They could have anchored both ends of their line on the river and prevented any flanking maneuvers. The Lannister army was caught by surprise and out of position. Had the battle been planned, squares/phalanxes of spearmen with archer support will annihilate an entirely mounted force. But the battle wasn’t planned. Jamie and his officers did try to assemble a proper defense but their lines were two men deep and, of course, a goddamn dragon is something of a game changer. To return to the show, allow me to offer my opinion: **Jamie Lannister should have died.** Granted, we last saw him sinking into the (seemingly impossibly deep) river, but I don’t think he’s supposed to be dead. But, really, he should be, because they need to start killing people and this was a great opportunity to kill a major character, and they blew it. I like the Jaime character but they have to start clearing the decks here, and what better way for a great warrior to die than in battle? Say what you will about the Kingslaying Sister-Bonker, but he’s brave as hell. His army was clearly in deep trouble but he rallied his men, fought like a crazy bastard, and came damn close to killing his arch enemy. It was his time, but instead we’re going to see some ludicrous deux ex machina next week. And really, there’s only three ways that make sense to write this out: 1. He dies, or 2. He is fished out of the river and captured, because how could he not be captured? The Dothraki/Targarayen army is all over the place; the Lannister army was annihilated. As others have pointed out, the events are incredible rushed - what should take months seems to be happening between a Tuesday and a Thursday. But if you’re going to cut to the chase and skip the transportation bit and say “let’s get right to the part where Daenerys surprised the Lannister army and wipes it out,” and even if you ignore the question as to how, without anyone noticing, she got her army from Dragonstone to the Westeros mainland AND marched inland, and by the way made landfall despite her enemy having the mightiest navy around - well, okay, let’s just get right to the battles scenes. Bu holy moly, we still have a lot of people standing around, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/254 "2017-08-08T16:59:32Z")
If it’s anyone but Littlefinger behind trying to murder Bran it seems like a plot hole. Why would you arm a random cutthroat with one of the most valuable items in the world to kill a crippled kid who could easily be snuffed out by literally any weapon at all or someone’s bare hands? But Littlefinger wasn’t there to arrange it, so that doesn’t make sense either. But using that knife only makes sense if you specifically want to be caught with a super-identifiable weapon. So if it really was someone trying to conduct a genuine assassination and not want to get caught it’s kind of ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/255 "2017-08-08T17:04:53Z")
I don’t think I saw this posted yet - a “Making Of” for the Loot Train battle: [This 14-Minute Video Detailing Last Night's Game of Thrones Battle Rules So Much](http://io9.gizmodo.com/this-14-minute-video-detailing-last-nights-game-of-thro-1797595950) As one woman up front says “I read this and realized it would be bigger than BoB!” (battle of the Bastards). ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/256 "2017-08-08T17:07:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Lannister army was caught by surprise and out of position. Had the battle been planned, squares/phalanxes of spearmen with archer support will annihilate an entirely mounted force. But the battle wasn’t planned. Jamie and his officers did try to assemble a proper defense but their lines were two men deep and, of course, a goddamn dragon is something of a game changer. Imagine how much more unprepared the Lannister forces would have been if the Dothraki didn’t whoop it up, announcing their approach from at least a mile away. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/257 "2017-08-08T17:11:53Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Imagine how much more unprepared the Lannister forces would have been if the Dothraki didn’t whoop it up, announcing their approach from at least a mile away. Bronn heard the horses before they heard any screams. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/258 "2017-08-08T17:12:30Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But using that knife only makes sense if you specifically want to be caught with a super-identifiable weapon. So if it really was someone trying to conduct a genuine assassination and not want to get caught it’s kind of ridiculous. Maybe the assassin or the guy that hired him wanted to implicate someone else…and stole the weapon for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/259 "2017-08-08T17:18:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > **Jamie Lannister should have died.** Agreed. I still hope he does, but they blew it. This was his “Valhalla Moment”. Charging a no shit DRAGON with his lance/spear. He knew he was gonna die. He couldn’t have chosen a better way to do it. They should have let him catch a face full of dragon fire and go out in a literal blaze of glory. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/260 "2017-08-08T17:20:38Z")
I’m not agreeing with the “clearing the decks” theory here. The idea that someone has to die to resolve his or her story is a tired cliche in my eyes. It’s possible to resolve the story in a satisfactory manner without clearing the decks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=14)