# Game of Thrones 7.04 "The Spoils of War" 8/6/2017 \[Show discussion only\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955 "2017-08-06T22:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/261 "2017-08-08T17:24:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m not agreeing with the “clearing the decks” theory here. The idea that someone has to die to resolve his or her story is a tired cliche in my eyes. It’s possible to resolve the story in a satisfactory manner without clearing the decks. I’m with you. People just want characters to die because it’s game of thrones so people need to die? it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Jamie’s story is not done yet. On the other hand they should stop putting people in situations were they should rightfully die and then miraculously saving their ass. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/262 "2017-08-08T17:24:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Maybe the assassin or the guy that hired him wanted to implicate someone else…and stole the weapon for that purpose. I doubt the assassin himself would’ve done it, since in order to be discovered he’d be caught and executed. That’s why I said it would make sense for Littlefinger to do it, since Cat might check with him, and he could mislead her, which he (probably) did. But he wasn’t there. I guess we don’t know for sure how much time took place between the fall and the murder attempt - maybe if it was a few weeks there would’ve been time to make arrangements. Kinda stretching plausibility there. I don’t know what other character would have motivation for trying to implicate someone else though. Who would Cersei/Jaime be trying to implicate? Tyrion, I guess? I assumed Littlefinger’s story about losing the dagger to Tyrion was made up. The whole thing doesn’t really have a satisfactory answer. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/263 "2017-08-08T17:30:33Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > If it’s anyone but Littlefinger behind trying to murder Bran it seems like a plot hole. Why would you arm a random cutthroat with one of the most valuable items in the world to kill a crippled kid who could easily be snuffed out by literally any weapon at all or someone’s bare hands? But Littlefinger wasn’t there to arrange it, so that doesn’t make sense either. But using that knife only makes sense if you specifically want to be caught with a super-identifiable weapon. So if it really was someone trying to conduct a genuine assassination and not want to get caught it’s kind of ridiculous. I thought I remember King Robert saying cripples were better off dead soon after Bran’s fall, but after a quick google search, I think it was actually Jaime who said that. Some young, princely ears nearby probably heard him say it, and then tried to “do the right thing” by paying a cutthroat to kill Bran, arming him with a dagger from his Royal Father’s armory. Either not knowing it was Valyrian steel, or at least not knowing the _worth_ of Valyrian steel. These are the foolish mistakes of misguided children, not the schemes of experienced political players. Littlefinger just used the situation to his advantage, by implicating Tyrion (when he knew that was Robert’s dagger) in order to drive a wedge between Starks and Lannisters, as part of his “chaos is a ladder/fight all battles everywhere” strategy. But I don’t think he was the one who sent the cutthroat to Bran’s room, no. He merely capitalized on someone else’s mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/264 "2017-08-08T17:30:38Z")
Well it’s obvious that Littlefinger has been lying about it and he doesn’t lie without reason. In my view, that’s practically an admission to the audience that he’s behind it, whatever the details of exactly how it got into the assassin’s hand. ---
**Author:** ![nofloyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nofloyd/32/2870_2.png) [@nofloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nofloyd)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/265 "2017-08-08T18:09:53Z")
Right. We have seen Littlefinger be the middleman in serveral other plots. (Olenna and Joffrey) Cersei asked Littlefinger to find Sansa and Arya … sure there were some others. Reasonable to think he was the arranger for Bran. He likely added the known knife to the plot to sow more chaos/increase the odds for himself, not at the original instigators request. I’m curious if Bran simply spouted Chaos is a ladder because it came to mind, or there is some cunning behind the detached facade and he knows it will cause a chain of events leading to the downfall of littlefinger. [man, can’t wait for LF to get his] ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/266 "2017-08-08T18:11:52Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I’m with you. People just want characters to die because it’s game of thrones so people need to die? it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Jamie’s story is not done yet. On the other hand they should stop putting people in situations were they should rightfully die and then miraculously saving their ass. I don’t want Jamie to die to “clear the deck”. I want him to die because people who stupidly charge dragons get burnt to a crisp. They don’t get magically saved by some idiot who decided to save the moron charging a dragon. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/267 "2017-08-08T18:23:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t want Jamie to die to “clear the deck”. I want him to die because people who stupidly charge dragons get burnt to a crisp. They don’t get magically saved by some idiot who decided to save the moron charging a dragon. He’s saving the moron who owes him a castle. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/268 "2017-08-08T18:35:50Z")
He wasn’t technically ‘charging a dragon’. He was trying to kill Dany by taking her unaware. He just wasn’t sure how quick (or non hurt) the dragon was. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/269 "2017-08-08T18:37:23Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > He’s saving the moron who owes him a castle. He’s owed a prettier wife, too. Maybe he’s the one who gets Sansa. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/270 "2017-08-08T18:50:29Z")
Not sure where this “moron” shit is coming from. He had at least, what, a 25-50% chance of that working? Catching a grounded, wounded dragon by surprise in a chaotic scene with a chance to practically end the war right there? Any non-cowardly soldier should jump at a chance like that. How many soldiers ever get the a reasonable chance to end an entire war in victory for their side on their own? Especially when the alternative is certain death or capture anyway. That’s an easy decision, just requires some bravery. No idea why anyone thinks it’s dumb, unless you think risking your life for any reason no matter the potential payoff is dumb. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/271 "2017-08-08T18:52:37Z")
I think Jaime was fully expecting to die there, just hoping to take Dany with him. Of course, I wonder what happens when there’s three fully grown dragons on the mainland with no one to control them. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/272 "2017-08-08T19:00:22Z")
Well, even Tyrion called him a “fucking idiot” when he saw what he was doing. Yes, it might be the right “brave” thing to do, but not the most self-preserving thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/273 "2017-08-08T19:07:29Z")
A great episode, with a lot going on and a great battle scene at the end. Seeing the impact of the dragonfire - wow! > [@DigitalC](#): > > It wasn’t a grammar joke, it was a Stannis callback. He said the exact same thing at least once. I think what makes it even better is that Davos started of illiterate. Yeah, that was a nice touch. > [@Declan](#): > > Absolutly loved seeing Brienne getting schooled by Arya, Syrio did his job The still-missed Syrio and later the Faceless Men, yes. > [@Munch](#): > > “Men shit their pants when they die. What, they didn’t teach you that at Fancy Lad School? I learned that when I was 5.” See, this is why Bronn can’t die yet. He’s too damn quotable. > [@Loach](#): > > …Now you are going to have me going back to figure that out. My faulty memory made me think that he set it up but I’m not sure. IIRC Jaime was very clear that he didn’t do it and he believed Cersei didn’t either. I don’t know what implicating a Lannister would do for her… I think it was Joffrey, but remember he hated his uncle Tyrion, who mocked and slapped him in the presence of his bodyguard the Hound. Joffrey would’ve been pleased to see Tyrion taken down a peg or two. > [@Garula](#): > > Considering Qyburn is behind them, perhaps the scorpion bolts are poisoned? Drogon might not be long for the world. My son and I wondered about that, too. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …My one main peeve was that none of the dothraki came and killed Bronn from behind while he was busy with the ballista. Protect your queen and her dragons, for goodness sake!.. Yeah, Bronn was left alone for 'way too long, given all the Dothraki running over the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/274 "2017-08-08T19:09:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Agreed. I still hope he does, but they blew it. This was his “Valhalla Moment”. Charging a no shit DRAGON with his lance/spear. He knew he was gonna die. He couldn’t have chosen a better way to do it. They should have let him catch a face full of dragon fire and go out in a literal blaze of glory. Yes, but the identity of the "little brother’ is one of the biggest hanging teases in the show. If Jamie dies, it can’t be him. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/275 "2017-08-08T19:15:39Z")
Except what you refer to isn’t in the show at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/276 "2017-08-08T19:17:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Except what you refer to isn’t in the show at all. I thought the valonqar prophecy was in the show. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/277 "2017-08-08T19:21:11Z")
Nope. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Well, even Tyrion called him a “fucking idiot” when he saw what he was doing. Yes, it might be the right “brave” thing to do, but not the most self-preserving thing to do. He doesn’t want his brother to die, so he’s hoping he doesn’t get himself killed. That doesn’t mean he’s dumb. You guys are really off base here. Let’s say a soldier has a chance of ending WW2 in the early stages, saving tens of millions of lives. He’s got, say, a 1/3 chance of doing it, but it’s very risky to himself. He’s a moron for doing it? The smart thing would be to let the war play out, including probably getting that very same soldier killed, because it gives him a slightly higher chance of surviving that day? For fucks sake, what’s the point of taking up arms at all, of forming an army, of going to war, if you’re going to call a soldier who has a unique opportunity to win the war in one charge a moron? I guess every soldier who ever lived who didn’t defect or run away from war is a complete moron since they never get a chance to do even a millionth of the chance Jamie had to impact the war. In fact, to not do what Jamie did would’ve taken incredible cowardice. Imagine he’s captured or killed, which is inevitable given the situation, wondering if he had the chance there to end the war and never took it. For a guy who wants to see himself as a brave knight that would be unthinkable, and for someone who’s just a decent person trying to do their duty for their side it would’ve been a huge dereliction of duty. This one isn’t even close, there’s no viable defense of the idea that he’s a moron. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/278 "2017-08-08T19:24:02Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Imagine how much more unprepared the Lannister forces would have been if the Dothraki didn’t whoop it up, announcing their approach from at least a mile away. In pre-gunpowder warfare a few minutes’ difference isn’t a difference. An army strung out along a road with absolutely no idea that a massive enemy force is literally right over the hill preparing to attack is doomed - they don’t have time to properly arrange their troops to receive an attack. Jaime and his officers do as good a job as they can getting a line ready but a lot of their men are out of position when the attack commences. In military terms, they are arranged in a marching formation, not a combat formation. They were doomed. Even had Danaerys and her dragon not been there they’d have been completely wiped out. [QUOTE=Acsenray] I’m not agreeing with the “clearing the decks” theory here. The idea that someone has to die to resolve his or her story is a tired cliche in my eyes. It’s possible to resolve the story in a satisfactory manner without clearing the decks. [/QUOTE] Well, yes, but in the Game of Thrones… … In seriousness, no, they don’t all have to die. But the writers wrote themselves into a position where they put Jaime Lannister into a position where there are not a lot of logical things that could happen to him. Either he dies or he’s captured. Anything else is bloody stupid. As to what Jaime was doing - he clearly wasn’t going after the dragon. The camera’s POV was trained right on Daenerys. He knew exactly who she was; killing her would be the greatest thing his side of the war could achieve. It was absolutely worth a try. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/279 "2017-08-08T19:28:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As to what Jaime was doing - he clearly wasn’t going after the dragon. The camera’s POV was trained right on Daenerys. He knew exactly who she was; killing her would be the greatest thing his side of the war could achieve. It was absolutely worth a try. Yup, taking her out is even better than taking the dragon out. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/280 "2017-08-08T19:47:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As to what Jaime was doing - he clearly wasn’t going after the dragon. The camera’s POV was trained right on Daenerys. He knew exactly who she was; killing her would be the greatest thing his side of the war could achieve. It was absolutely worth a try. For sure he was going after Dany, but there’s no way his chances were 25-50%. Stupid or not is beside the point. The point is that his plan failed and given the ethos of the show he should have been burnt to death instead of being miraculously saved at the last minute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=15)