# Game of Thrones 7.04 "The Spoils of War" 8/6/2017 \[Show discussion only\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955 "2017-08-06T22:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/281 "2017-08-08T20:04:19Z")
To put it another way. The last we saw of Jamie was him twenty feet deep in full armor and sinking fast. Yet virtually no one expects him to drown. That’s a huge change from a few seasons ago where the feeling was anyone could die at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/282 "2017-08-08T20:07:12Z")
To be honest until it became a resurgent topic I just assumed for a long time now Littlefinger was behind the assassination attempt on Bran purposely using an expensive weapon to frame the Lannisters. It didn’t occur to me it could or would be anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/283 "2017-08-08T20:14:22Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Can I be the guy on the left who didn’t get lit on fire but acted like he did? I would hope that he didn’t know that he was not actually on fire. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/284 "2017-08-08T20:18:57Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Well, even Tyrion called him a “fucking idiot” when he saw what he was doing. Yes, it might be the right “brave” thing to do, but not the most self-preserving thing to do. That’s pretty much the definition of military bravery isn’t it? They don’t give medals of valor for taking reasonable steps to ensure one’s own self preservation. “PFC John Q Normal was on patrol in Kandahar province when his unit came under fire from a pair of Taliban snipers. PFC Normal immediately took cover and did not emerge until an airstrike had eliminated the snipers. We hereby award him the Silver Star.” ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/285 "2017-08-08T20:31:55Z")
Agreed: great ep. Something I didn’t see mentioned up-thread: The conversation about gold/food in the beginning made it clear that all the farms still have this year’s harvest (and maybe some stores?) The caravan had, I believe, just the stuff from the Highgarden larders, which is probably a lot, and probably critical for the army, but it’s not all the food in the lands. Ep. 6 will open right where Ep. 5 left off – same scene, same point in time. Not a crazy prediction or anything, but I’m making it anyway. I actually think Bran is being portrayed well. There’s no reason he should be like the former three-eyed raven. His path was very different, much more sudden, and presumably much more traumatic. And it’s left him disconnected in an extreme way. ---
**Author:** ![jkirkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@jkirkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkirkman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/286 "2017-08-08T20:44:30Z")
In regards to Dany guiding Drogon to light up some food wagons: it was one or two dozen 2-horse wagons. This was not enough food to feed her army for one meal. The amount of food the story implies is being moved would be miles and miles of modern 18-wheeled trucks, so, you know, I acknowledge that logic does not enter into it. Or that weeks and weeks of wagons have gone to Kings Landing, and that this is the very tail end of the supply line. And the road is magic and does not reflect horse traffic at all, so that this might be true. I try not to think of these things, especially in a tv series that has shown no economy at all, no real roads, and no farms. A wizard does it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/287 "2017-08-08T21:00:22Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > Something I didn’t see mentioned up-thread: The conversation about gold/food in the beginning made it clear that all the farms still have this year’s harvest (and maybe some stores?) The caravan had, I believe, just the stuff from the Highgarden larders, which is probably a lot, and probably critical for the army, but it’s not all the food in the lands. The first scene talks about how the Lannister armies are taking the harvest themselves, both from the fields and stealing it from the farmers. Jaime assigns Bron to help with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/288 "2017-08-08T21:02:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I thought the valonqar prophecy was in the show. Here’s the scene [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwHGNoMjHn8) ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/289 "2017-08-08T21:07:40Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > That’s why I said it would make sense for Littlefinger to do it, since Cat might check with him, and he could mislead her, which he (probably) did. But he wasn’t there. I guess we don’t know for sure how much time took place between the fall and the murder attempt - maybe if it was a few weeks there would’ve been time to make arrangements. Kinda stretching plausibility there. > > I don’t know what other character would have motivation for trying to implicate someone else though. Who would Cersei/Jaime be trying to implicate? Tyrion, I guess? I assumed Littlefinger’s story about losing the dagger to Tyrion was made up. I’m pretty sure Tyrion did confirm that he’d won the dagger from Littlefinger in a bar bet, though he couldn’t explain how the assassin came to possess it except that somebody obviously wanted to frame him. The big question is how did the dagger get to Winterfell? Presumably, Tyrion left it in King’s Landing before his road trip, so Cersei/Jaime wouldn’t have access to it. Which means Littlefinger (or whoever) would have A) stolen it, and B) sent it via courier to the northern assassin. Which does seem awfully complicated and runs a high risk of discovery, especially if the assassin had been captured alive and tortured. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/290 "2017-08-08T21:09:32Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You guys are really off base here… > > This one isn’t even close, there’s no viable defense of the idea that he’s a moron. It’s really just one poster calling Jaime dumb for that charge. My reply was about Bronn’s motivation for saving him, which should carry over to helping him out of his armor underwater. Jaime’s actions are reasonable and completely in character. You see him make the quick mental calculation before he charges. And remember he doesn’t have to get all the way there, just to spear throwing range. After everything he’s suffered through since being taken prisoner by Robb, what could be a better way to go than killing Cersei’s #1 enemy and then dying in a glorious burst of dragon fire? ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/291 "2017-08-08T21:10:43Z")
> [@jkirkman](#): > > In regards to Dany guiding Drogon to light up some food wagons: it was one or two dozen 2-horse wagons. This was not enough food to feed her army for one meal. The amount of food the story implies is being moved would be miles and miles of modern 18-wheeled trucks, so, you know, I acknowledge that logic does not enter into it. Yeah, I think we are supposed to believe that the gold wagons got a head start because the food wagons were waiting for the last deliveries from the current crop. The gold wagons had already made it to King’s Landing with what I assume is about half the army guarding it. Tarly made a comment about needing to whip the column over a pass so that they would all be on one side of it come nightfall to prevent being under strength in case of attack. So that means that we are left with ALL of the food and probably half of the Lannister army destroyed by Dany’s attack. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/292 "2017-08-08T21:25:48Z")
> [@](#): > > It wasn’t a grammar joke, it was a Stannis callback. He said the exact same thing at least once. I think what makes it even better is that Davos started of illiterate And it was the late Princess Shireen who taught him to read. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/293 "2017-08-08T21:42:54Z")
From a storytelling perspective, the assassin had to be sent by someone still in play. Why bring it back up if they’re just going to resolve it with “Oh yeah, Joffrey did it. He’s already dead though.” > [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > It’s really just one poster calling Jaime dumb for that charge. And Tyrion. But that was more about not wanting to see his brother roasted. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/294 "2017-08-08T21:51:06Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Well, even Tyrion called him a “fucking idiot” when he saw what he was doing. Yes, it might be the right “brave” thing to do, but not the most self-preserving thing to do. I thought it was fucking awesome. _“Jamie John Rooster Wayne Cogburn Lannister the First, charging the Nasty Pepper Dragon, guns blazing/spears leveled. ROLL TIDE you sonuvabitch! Yee Haw ki yay, motherfucker. Hells to the YEAH!”_\* - Pretty sure that’s what I saw/heard on my TV screen. It is possible I was somewhat less than sober at the time. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/295 "2017-08-08T22:05:18Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > It’s really just one poster calling Jaime dumb for that charge. My reply was about Bronn’s motivation for saving him, which should carry over to helping him out of his armor underwater. Jaime’s actions are reasonable and completely in character. You see him make the quick mental calculation before he charges. And remember he doesn’t have to get all the way there, just to spear throwing range. After everything he’s suffered through since being taken prisoner by Robb, what could be a better way to go than killing Cersei’s #1 enemy and then dying in a glorious burst of dragon fire? What you say makes a lot of sense, but it being stupid or not was not my point. The point is that his plan failed in a way that should have left him dead. Being miraculously rescued doesn’t fit into the ethos of the show. Neither will him being miraculously rescued from his miraculous rescue. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/296 "2017-08-08T22:17:33Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The first scene talks about how the Lannister armies are taking the harvest themselves, both from the fields and stealing it from the farmers. Jaime assigns Bron to help with the latter. My impression was that those same armies/thieves were just about to get underway and therefore aren’t going to be able to do any stealing (having been barbecued). I should just go back and watch the scene again I suppose… ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/297 "2017-08-08T22:20:24Z")
No, weeks (or at least days) probably passed after that first scene. We start the battle scene by having Randyll Tarley tell Jaime that the gold is back and that he’s got to get the end of the line moving because they’re isolated. The better part of the army went ahead with the gold and got them to King’s Landing and what we’re seeing is the back of the wagon train carrying the food that was plundered. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/298 "2017-08-08T22:30:42Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > It’s really just one poster calling Jaime dumb for that charge. My reply was about Bronn’s motivation for saving him, which should carry over to helping him out of his armor underwater. Jaime’s actions are reasonable and completely in character. You see him make the quick mental calculation before he charges. **And remember he doesn’t have to get all the way there, just to spear throwing range**. After everything he’s suffered through since being taken prisoner by Robb, what could be a better way to go than killing Cersei’s #1 enemy and then dying in a glorious burst of dragon fire? Not they way he was carrying that spear. He was in total lancer mode - hey diddle diddle straight up the middle. It was a kamikaze run and he knew it. But it would be worth it to take out Dany. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/299 "2017-08-09T02:14:09Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Since we’ve pretty much run out of suitors for Sansa, I’m going to predict that she ends up marrying Dickon. I’m also guessing his dad isn’t dead yet - I don’t think that was him burning alive. It would have been much more apparent if it had been. But he’ll likely die at some point. > [@TruCelt](#): > > …I really hope that the past year has taught Sansa respect for Tyrion, and that they will end up being a real couple. Their two heads together could really solve a lot of problems. And he could help reset her moral balance. He’s the perfect partner for her… Hmm. Could be, but my money is still on her marrying (and controlling) wee Robin in the Vale, rendering Littlefinger even more expendable. > [@clairobscur](#): > > I loved the scene where Bran answers Sansa’s question, saying that Arya was going to King’s Landing because Cersei is on her death list. More specifically I loved Sansa’s glance when it makes her realize that both her siblings are complete freaks who have change[d] beyond recognition. > > I disliked the dismissal of the Reed girl, on the other hand. Even the original three eyed raven was more empathetic than that despite having spent forever entangled in tree roots. Agreed as to both. Loved the scene with a bored Arya outmaneuvering the two oafish Winterfell guards, too. > [@Munch](#): > > …The dragons will all be dead by the time the battle against the army of the dead comes around… No way. There will be rioting in the streets if GOT fans aren’t shown at least one dragon laying fiery waste to the hordes from the north. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I would have no problem with two-hour episodes in the last season. Preach it! > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Until they decide that two hour movies need a year each to produce. And the ‘last season’ turns out to be six years long… GOT fans have shown they can wait a loooong time for their next fix. It is known. > [@TruCelt](#): > > …The way [Brienne and Arya] grinned at each other at the end spoke volumes though. There was an element of joyful respect; they are two experts who have met their match… Yes! A very nice moment. > [@TruCelt](#): > > …I just hope that Arya and Lady Mormont become friendly. If they ever disagree the resulting donnybrook could destroy Winterfell. LOL!.. I’d happily watch an HBO spinoff with those two. > [@zbuzz](#): > > Pleasepleaseplease let Bronn live long enough to see Dickon and Euron be introduced to each other. His guffaw would be heard all the way up in Castle Black. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/300 "2017-08-09T02:32:51Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Bronn heard the horses before they heard any screams. “Dothraki screamers” are feared throughout this world. It’s like the old Confederate troops with their “Rebel yell.” It’s a psych tactic and works very well at a visceral level. Come to think of it, chimps do it too, so probably an instinctive fear response. > [@clairobscur](#): > > . . . > I disliked the dismissal of the Reed girl, on the other hand. Even the original three eyed raven was more empathetic than that despite having spent forever entangled in tree roots. I really need just one scene with Meera warm, comfy and well fed. Just one quick glimpse of her tucked up in bed with a tray of breakfast on her lap, you know? And Theon too. There needs to be some small break in the horror for these two. Oh, and for those confused about Jon’s response to Theon: Even if he knows his brothers are alive, Theon still snuck his Ironmen into Winterfell and took it over. Quite a few of the people who cared for him growing up died long before Ramsay got involved. Theon’s betrayal of the Starks was unconscionable in their eyes. They never thought of him as a prisoner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=16)