# Game of Thrones 7.04 "The Spoils of War" 8/6/2017 \[Show discussion only\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955 "2017-08-06T22:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/101 "2017-08-07T13:40:52Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > This had me very confused. I thought Bran said “chaos is a letter”, and was perhaps referring to one of the raven messages alluded to last week. > > But, “chaos is a ladder”? I infer from posts here that Littlefinger said this earlier in the series? > > Can someone please fill in the gaps for me please? Thanks. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxlIraEV8n4). ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/102 "2017-08-07T13:55:10Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Oh, yes. Field of Fire 2.0. About time Dany started getting some wins. But where were Rhaegal and Viserion? CGI budget is where they were, to answer my own question. I’m guessing that you can’t reliably teach a dragon NOT to burn your own troops. It only took Drogon the single pass to destroy the infantry shield line, after that the two armies were pretty mixed together. Dany somehow controls where Drogon flies (how, anyway? No reins, and I doubt she can kick hard enough against his huge scaly body to even notice. Must be that mental bond thing), so she could point him at the line of wagons somewhat off from the battle front. After that she’d have to look for clumps of Lannister soldiers to target or risk killing masses of Dothraki as well. What I wonder is, how are they going to get Drogon back to safety? That spear looked to be embedded in a shoulder joint, which ought to make that wing pretty useless for at least some weeks. Are they going to have to build a huge cart and tow him back to the sea? While any remaining Lannister forces can play with any remaining ballistas and, heck, you could do some nice damage to a grounded dragon with a trebuchet and the like as well. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/103 "2017-08-07T13:55:17Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Noah Syndergaard, pitcher for the mets had a non speaking cameo role. Are people going to throw tantrums over that cameo too? Nice thread shit. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/104 "2017-08-07T14:12:19Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxlIraEV8n4). > [@Bricker](#): > > Season 2, I think, Baelish said something like, “Chaos is a ladder for ambitious men,” when discussing the plotting with Varys. Thanks! I had completely forgotten about that scene. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/105 "2017-08-07T14:20:20Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Please tell me the eldest Tarly also ended up extra-crispy? > That actually is one of the better battle decisions made in the series. > > - Cavalry cannot defeat or dislodge determind infantry which is in formation. > - Air power works best against enemy concentrations. > > The Lannister-Tarly forces were dispersed when the battle began, hence not good targets for Drogon. When the Dothraki charged they rushed into formation, suddenly becoming _very good tagets_ for Drogon. > > Once Drogon started to spit fire; they wisely dispersed; (we even hear Jamie ordering them to). Unfortunatley, if infantry breaks, it becomes easy pickings for cavalry. > > So they were presented with a [del]Hobson’s[/del] _Dany’s_ choice. Yes but, the main objective was the grain train and it was all nicely lined up along the road. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/106 "2017-08-07T14:21:57Z")
The only thing disappointing about this episode is the thought that, had HBO been willing to throw this kind of money at the show earlier in it’s history, we would have gottens oem kick ass fight scenes in Season 2-3 Anyone know why no one attacks the Iron Bank? I’d imagine there’s good reason, but it looks like they hold every’s purse string. Maybe they could pull a Philip the IV move on the templars type scenario. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/107 "2017-08-07T14:24:19Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > What I wonder is, how are they going to get Drogon back to safety? That spear looked to be embedded in a shoulder joint, which ought to make that wing pretty useless for at least some weeks. Are they going to have to build a huge cart and tow him back to the sea? While any remaining Lannister forces can play with any remaining ballistas and, heck, you could do some nice damage to a grounded dragon with a trebuchet and the like as well. If you think about it, this battle does not bode well for Dany. Yes, they won decisively, but it was a surprise attack on the rearguard of the Lannister army. They only had one ballista thing and it wasn’t even deployed at the start. Despite that they still seriously wounded Drogon and nearly killed him. A dozen of those ballistas will neutralize her dragons. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/108 "2017-08-07T14:32:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you think about it, this battle does not bode well for Dany. Yes, they won decisively, but it was a surprise attack on the rearguard of the Lannister army. They only had one ballista thing and it wasn’t even deployed at the start. Despite that they still seriously wounded Drogon and nearly killed him. A dozen of those ballistas will neutralize her dragons. Only problem is that they’re no longer a surprise for her. They set it up to show she wasn’t expecting it to actually hurt Drogan by him shaking off the arrows at first. They take a long time to reload so now she knows the dodge them first and then burn them. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/109 "2017-08-07T14:49:23Z")
Trogdor! Trogdor! Burninating the countryside, Burninating the peasants Burninating all the peoples And their thatched-roof cottages! Great episode, pure awesomeness ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/110 "2017-08-07T15:05:38Z")
So when Arya murdered the Freys she made a point of leaving survivors who could tell anyone who asked that it was, in fact, Arya Stark who was responsible. I’m sure that story would spread but not be taken at face value. “I heard that the ghost Arya killed all the Freys.” “Well I heard she had a hook for a hand.” A Westerosi urban legend of sorts. But now that Arya has shown up at Winterfell and demonstrated that she’s all ninja assassiny now, that story becomes a little more believable. I wonder if it will come up. Surely Sansa heard the rumor, and now she’s seen what Arya can do and knows that Arya has a list of people who she wants to kill… and she knows that that list is shorter than it once was. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/111 "2017-08-07T15:10:29Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > So when Arya murdered the Freys she made a point of leaving survivors who could tell anyone who asked that it was, in fact, Arya Stark who was responsible. I’m sure that story would spread but not be taken at face value. Did she announce herself as Arya Stark (other than to Walter just before killing him)? I thought she just said that The North came for the Freys. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/112 "2017-08-07T15:17:46Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you think about it, this battle does not bode well for Dany. Yes, they won decisively, but it was a surprise attack on the rearguard of the Lannister army. They only had one ballista thing and it wasn’t even deployed at the start. Despite that they still seriously wounded Drogon and nearly killed him. A dozen of those ballistas will neutralize her dragons. Seriously wounded? Not sure about that. He was shocked by being shot, but pulled himself together and landed as opposed to crashing. He may have actually been hovering there at one point. Now, since it did pierce his hide, a shot to the heart is something to worry about. But much like the dragons are no longer a surprise, neither is the scorpion. The dragons will be on the lookout for them now. They missed their best chance to kill a dragon here, it will be much harder in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/113 "2017-08-07T15:19:08Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Did she announce herself as Arya Stark (other than to Walter just before killing him)? I thought she just said that The North came for the Freys. You could be right, I don’t remember her exact words, but even if she didn’t say her name there could still be rumors that the ghost of Arya got revenge on the Freys. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/114 "2017-08-07T15:19:58Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Did she announce herself as Arya Stark (other than to Walter just before killing him)? I thought she just said that The North came for the Freys. She said “Tell them the North remembers. Tell them Winter came for House Frey.” She didn’t identify herself. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/115 "2017-08-07T15:24:21Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > … Dr Branhattan needs to … THIS. I recently caught the end of The Watchmen, and Bran’s disaffected attitude reminded me of Dr. Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/116 "2017-08-07T15:25:16Z")
Didn’t she also say, “Leave one wolf alive and the sheep are never safe”? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/117 "2017-08-07T15:27:14Z")
The scene with Arya and Brienne was great, but it did take me out of it a bit to show Arya blocking. Even if she was quicker, the strength difference should make blocking pretty ineffective. Just as I was thinking that, Brienne chest kicked her. I would think Arya would simply dodge all of Brienne’s attacks. I thought the very end scene with Dany was played wrong too. Dany looked fearful when Jaime was charging at her. It would have been more consistent with her character and the arc of the episode to show her angry and confident. Jaime probably didn’t think he’d live through that charge. Even if he got to her, he’d have to have concluded he’d be dead after that, but he went for it anyways. And I’m done with Baelish skulking around Winterfell. It’s been 4 eps and he’s done nothing but act like a creeper. If his plotline doesn’t pay off it will be like season 3 Theon. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/118 "2017-08-07T15:34:09Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Only problem is that they’re no longer a surprise for her. They set it up to show she wasn’t expecting it to actually hurt Drogan by him shaking off the arrows at first. They take a long time to reload so now she knows the dodge them first and then burn them. The ballista is mostly iron, so would it be destroyed in a direct blast of dragonfire? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/119 "2017-08-07T15:37:51Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The scene with Arya and Brienne was great, but it did take me out of it a bit to show Arya blocking. Even if she was quicker, the strength difference should make blocking pretty ineffective. Just as I was thinking that, Brienne chest kicked her. I would think Arya would simply dodge all of Brienne’s attacks. > > I thought the very end scene with Dany was played wrong too. Dany looked fearful when Jaime was charging at her. It would have been more consistent with her character and the arc of the episode to show her angry and confident. Jaime probably didn’t think he’d live through that charge. Even if he got to her, he’d have to have concluded he’d be dead after that, but he went for it anyways. > > And I’m done with Baelish skulking around Winterfell. It’s been 4 eps and he’s done nothing but act like a creeper. If his plotline doesn’t pay off it will be like season 3 Theon. It’s all stage combat anyway, with little resemblance to actual sword fighting. Anyway, you very seldom block with a sword, instead you deflect or redirect the attack and she did appear to be doing that, as well as a lot of footwork to move in and out of range. Mind you, in a real fight, she would be at a huge disadvantage in terms of range, nevermind that she isn’t wearing any armor. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/120 "2017-08-07T15:39:32Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The ballista is mostly iron, so would it be destroyed in a direct blast of dragonfire? Is it? I have to rewatch, but it looked like it was mostly wood from what I recall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=7)