# Game of Thrones 7.04 "The Spoils of War" 8/6/2017 \[Show discussion only\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955 "2017-08-06T22:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/141 "2017-08-07T16:57:15Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Seriously wounded? Not sure about that. > > He was shocked by being shot, but pulled himself together and landed as opposed to crashing. He may have actually been hovering there at one point. Now, since it did pierce his hide, a shot to the heart is something to worry about. > > But much like the dragons are no longer a surprise, neither is the scorpion. The dragons will be on the lookout for them now. They missed their best chance to kill a dragon here, it will be much harder in the future. If there’s a dozen scorpions it becomes very hard to Dodge. Even if they never kill a dragon, Dany can’t repeat her tatics. Flying a dragon like she did at a line backed up by scorpions is too risky. One hit from a scorpion could be the end of Dany and the war. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/142 "2017-08-07T16:57:52Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > I also think Brienne was just humoring her and half-assing the fight for most of it, until Arya got some surprise strikes in. Oh, absolutely. No way Brienne had any reason to even take it seriously when a tiny girl half her size asks to train. This was a truly awesome episode. Maybe not as good as some of the best episodes from earlier in the season, but certainly as fun and entertaining. My one main peeve was that none of the dothraki came and killed Bronn from behind while he was busy with the ballista. Protect your queen and her dragons, for goodness sake! I loved Sansa laughing about Arya’s list, and then Arya laughing, but they weren’t laughing for the same reason. I’d love to see at least a snippet of the two of them actually telling their stories to each other. Particularly if they both get a chance to talk about how they kinda made friends with the Hound… (although I guess Arya will think she left him for dead, which will be a bit of a downer). ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/143 "2017-08-07T16:59:58Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I’d love to see at least a snippet of the two of them actually telling their stories to each other. Particularly if they both get a chance to talk about how they kinda made friends with the Hound… (although I guess Arya will think she left him for dead, which will be a bit of a downer). Speaking of which, they’ve got to be all heading for a reunion soon. The Hound is on the way to wall, and the path leads right through Winterfell. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/144 "2017-08-07T17:03:07Z")
Tyrion is not a Targaryen. It would spoil the whole poetic justice of him murdering his father. And Tyrion is more like Tywin in my opinion than either Jaime or Cersei are. I think it _might_ be possible (not likely, but possible), that after favoring Jaime and Cersei their whole lives, and saying things like “I can’t _prove_ you’re not my son” to Tyrion, that Tywin’s favorites are actually the Targ bastards, and Tyrion was Tywin’s only trueborn son after all. _That_ would make more literary sense to me. And there are a lot of Targaryen parallels with the Lannister twins, what with “Mad Queen” Cersei burning the Sept, the incest, her paranoia, etc. Ultimately, though, I think these are more symbolic parallels than clues to a more concrete plot twist about Cersei’s parentage. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/145 "2017-08-07T17:11:55Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Speaking of which, they’ve got to be all heading for a reunion soon. The Hound is on the way to wall, and the path leads right through Winterfell. The Hound is on his way to the wall? Last we saw him, wasn’t he hanging around with the Brotherhood without Banners? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/146 "2017-08-07T17:12:59Z")
If Dany would take some time to play some FPS, she’d learn that charging head first into your enemy without any kind of dodging is just poor tactics. At least learn to strafe a bit! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/147 "2017-08-07T17:15:11Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The Hound is on his way to the wall? Last we saw him, wasn’t he hanging around with the Brotherhood without Banners? Yeah, but their new mission is to help the fight against the White Walkers and the Hound had a vision of them going around the Wall. I don’t think they’ve specifically said where they’re going other than “North.” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/148 "2017-08-07T17:16:25Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The Hound is on his way to the wall? Last we saw him, wasn’t he hanging around with the Brotherhood without Banners? They were on the way to eastwatch by the sea. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/149 "2017-08-07T17:19:18Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxlIraEV8n4). Big difference from then until now. Then Littlefinger was fucking _dangerous_. Now all he does is smirk in the background like Snidely Whiplash. Also RIP Exposition Whore. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/150 "2017-08-07T17:19:47Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > And I’m done with Baelish skulking around Winterfell. It’s been 4 eps and he’s done nothing but act like a creeper. If his plotline doesn’t pay off it will be like season 3 Theon. When he went North I said that it made little sense and nothing this season has changed that. He’s clearly in a worse position that he was before his move north and doesn’t have a clear path forward. It seems the only point of it was to advance the plot and provide a dramatic rescue scene. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/151 "2017-08-07T17:30:13Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I think it _might_ be possible (not likely, but possible), that after favoring Jaime and Cersei their whole lives, and saying things like “I can’t _prove_ you’re not my son” to Tyrion, that Tywin’s favorites are actually the Targ bastards, and Tyrion was Tywin’s only trueborn son after all. _That_ would make more literary sense to me. And there are a lot of Targaryen parallels with the Lannister twins, what with “Mad Queen” Cersei burning the Sept, the incest, her paranoia, etc. I did consider this a decent twist at some point, bring the Dragons against Cersei and she goes “Hello cutie…” However, with the proper toasting that Jamie nearly got, I think that ship has sailed, or rather dragon flew off. The base theory was Tywin was barren and all the children were the mad kings. Works in the context of a serious twist in the series which GRMM has a good habit of. Then again, none of the dragons have shown any interest in Jon Snow, pretty much the only other strong blooded Targ in the show (sure there’s probably weak blood somewhere, Stannis might have had a shot, the lineage is there). ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/152 "2017-08-07T17:33:19Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Re: the other two dragons, I believe they need riders to be effective in battle. The theory is that the other two riders will be Jon Snow and Tyrion (who is also suspected to be a secret Targaryen). I’ve never been completely convinced of the Tyrion theory, but they do keep pointing out how “the dragon has three heads” and all, so it might be true. I wonder if Bran ends up warging into the Mad King in order to control a dragon. The Mad King mindlessly repeating “burn them all” is somewhat reminiscent of Hodor’s “hold the door”. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/153 "2017-08-07T17:33:28Z")
Since we’ve pretty much run out of suitors for Sansa, I’m going to predict that she ends up marrying Dickon. I’m also guessing his dad isn’t dead yet - I don’t think that was him burning alive. It would have been much more apparent if it had been. But he’ll likely die at some point. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/154 "2017-08-07T17:33:37Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Another thought-- Tyrion watched the whole dragon vs Bron vs Jaime thing. I’m thinking he’s gonna send somebody to fish Jaime out. I expect Tyrion will save (if he escapes) or free (if he’s captured) Jaime in repayment. > [@Loach](#): > > One twist I didn’t see coming was making Dickon be a likable character. In that short scene having him talk about his first battle humanized him and separated him from his asshole father. Yep. The writers want us to like him, but it can equally be so that his execution will be more painful for us or because he will succeed his father and switch side. People have mentioned Tarly Sr being burned or killed during the battle. I didn’t notice it. Is that a certainty? > [@buddha\_david](#): > > Has it ever been firmly established exactly who ordered the assassination attempt on Bran with the dagger? We assume it was Cersei, but for all we know it may have been Littlefinger himself, as part of his chaos/ladder thing. I thought it was established that it was Joffrey. But when you make me think of it, I’m not sure if I got this from the books, from the show, or from convincing speculations on the internet. > [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > All the time spent in the catacombs of Winterfell has to be foreshadowing. There’s a lot of bodies down there. I bet the final stand against the white walkers will be in Winterfell. We’ll see a zombie Ned Stark before the show ends. I don’t believe it will happen, but it would be a neat idea. But I think it was mentioned long ago that only his bones were given back (and very possibly without the head). > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Yes but, the main objective was the grain train and it was all nicely lined up along the road. Like others, I’m wondering why she wouldn’t take the food rather than burning it. But my understanding was that what we saw was the main army. But what people said hint at it being only the rearguard that Tarly Sr wanted to whip. If this interpretation is correct, then are we supposed to think that the main army is safe and Danaerys doesn’t think she can defeat them? > [@Bone](#): > > I thought the very end scene with Dany was played wrong too. Dany looked fearful when Jaime was charging at her. It would have been more consistent with her character and the arc of the episode to show her angry and confident. I disagree. During the fight in the arenas, Dany didn’t do a thing and looked fearful too and expecting death. We’ve never seen her facing personally a danger or participating in a fight. She always has let others or a dragons do the fighting for her. For what we have seen, she has no ability to defend herself and no delusion that she could. > [@Yllaria](#): > > The metal parts would at least be warped and unusable. They might be repairable and they could definitely be remelted, saving the cost of new iron. But they can’t just be reused with new rope and wood. Doesn’t really matter whether or not this one is destroyed. It’s just a fancy ballista and they could build dozens of others in King’s landing. In fact I expect they’ll do exactly that, making the dragoning of King’s Landing impossible. I’m convinced now that Jon and Dany will end up married…rather, that they’ll get married at some point, since they still might end up dead. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/155 "2017-08-07T17:33:47Z")
I think Jaime definately survived and could see him reappearing in a prison cell at Dragonstone getting a visit from Tyrion. I would have loved to see the Brienne/Arya looking up at Balish scene go like this: Arya: I don’t trust Littlefinger Brienne: I don’t either Arya: I think I’ll kill him too Brienne: sweet ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/156 "2017-08-07T17:34:50Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I wonder if Bran ends up warging into the Mad King in order to control a dragon. The Mad King mindlessly repeating “burn them all” is somewhat reminiscent of Hodor’s “hold the door”. There were no dragons alive at the same time as the mad King ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/157 "2017-08-07T17:38:08Z")
I loved the scene where Bran answers Sansa’s question, saying that Arya was going to King’s Landing because Cersei is on her death list. More specifically I loved Sansa’s glance when it makes her realize that both her siblings are complete freaks who have changer beyond recognition. I disliked the dismissal of the Reed girl, on the other hand. Even the original three eyed raven was more empathetic than that despite having spent forever entangled in tree roots. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/158 "2017-08-07T17:39:37Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > There were no dragons alive at the same time as the mad King Bran was controlling present time Hodor by warging into past Hodor. I think it’s possible that he could do the same thing with the Mad King. Warg into the Mad King in the past to control a dragon in the present. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/159 "2017-08-07T17:41:11Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If there’s a dozen scorpions it becomes very hard to Dodge. Even if they never kill a dragon, Dany can’t repeat her tatics. Flying a dragon like she did at a line backed up by scorpions is too risky. One hit from a scorpion could be the end of Dany and the war. She was surprised by the existence of a weapon that could hurt/kill her children. She won’t make that mistake again. And I actually think a dive straight at a scorpion, while flaming to burn any think shot at her would be very effective. Of course, they won’t work well against multiple, widely spaced scorpions. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955/160 "2017-08-07T17:41:16Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I disagree. During the fight in the arenas, Dany didn’t do a thing and looked fearful too and expecting death. We’ve never seen her facing personally a danger or participating in a fight. She always has let others or a dragons do the fighting for her. For what we have seen, she has no ability to defend herself and no delusion that she could. Maybe during the arena scene, but even then it seemed like her connection to the Drogon is what summoned him there. But when her plan comes together and she is about to go nuts on people, she is pretty confident. Like the slaver’s bay fight, and when she was alone in the tent with the Dothraki Kahls right before killing them all. Throughout the ep she was building anger and I think it would have played much better if she turned in confident defiance knowing that Drogon was right there with her. Like, see Jaime, glare, and act either nonchalant or smile as Drogon turns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-04-the-spoils-of-war-8-6-2017-show-discussion-only/792955.md?page=9)