# Game of Thrones 7.05 "Eastwatch" 8/13/17 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585 "2017-08-13T22:26:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/181 "2017-08-14T21:35:41Z")
Well, remember a few episodes back when Sandor looks into the fire, and Thoros asks him what he sees? He rambles a bit then says he sees “a mountain”. It’s clearly fucking confirmed!! ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/182 "2017-08-14T21:44:03Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > The note is real in that Sansa really wrote it. It was under duress but she really wrote it to keep herself alive back when she was a prisoner married to Joffery. Reminder that Sansa was never married to Joffrey. She _was_ betrothed to him, though. > [@Folacin](#): > > Winterfell is pretty far inland. Not that we have any good feel for how long travel takes this season, but it would have added a week or more to the trip? The travel details have become hopelessly ignored in the show, but Winterfell to King’s Landing (near Dragonstone) is something like 1500 miles. Which is a ~60 day trip if you’re on horseback, take the main road, the weather is nice, and you’re not carrying too much. And another 650 miles from Winterfell to Castle Black, and even farther to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. TL;DR: Going by land is a serious time sink. It will take Jon ~3 months at best to get to the Wall by land, even if he doesn’t stop by Winterfell on the way. While going directly to the wall by sea, even assuming the distance is the same (it should be significantly shorter, going from an island to the coast), would take from 10 days to 2 weeks, depending on the weather and assuming they sailed night and day. So, the land route adds _a lot_ more than a week. References: [Distances in Westeros](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KAqa9wwODqaFkegqf8Si6fmuE55-M-GMIj0ZmcKUFxs/edit) (Warning, Google doc) [Ancient travel times](https://www.quora.com/How-fast-could-humans-travel-in-ancient-times) ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/183 "2017-08-14T21:47:17Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > The Bronn ex machina was the most annoying part but last we saw their horses were getting BBQ’d by Drogon. There were loads of mounted Dothraki on the prowl, how the hell did they avoid being rounded up with the Tarlys? Invisibility cloak? Ah, makes me sick! Well, they were on the other side of a surprisingly wide and deep river. That part of it is actually the most believable part - if you can accept them getting there, then they’re safe. Dothraki ride, they do not row boats or swim. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/184 "2017-08-14T21:50:32Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Gendry - Difficult to say, as it’s not like the show hasn’t brought back characters only to die (remember Osha and Rickon?), but I think he has a bigger role to play as the last Baratheon. And as a Valyrian steel sword maker, based on the old parchment describing the process that Samwell just so happen to have stolen from the great library. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/185 "2017-08-14T22:18:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I was disappointed that Arya didn’t encounter Lady Mormont. I’d definitely watch a show about Brienne, Arya and the littlest bear travelling around writing wrongs, with Podrick as their squire/comic relief. And boy toy, as appropriate by age, inclination, and culture. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/186 "2017-08-14T22:38:58Z")
I find it interesting that Pod is still wearing his red Lannister livery. But I guess it’s hard to come by a new set. ---
**Author:** ![jkirkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@jkirkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkirkman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/187 "2017-08-14T22:46:43Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Some men were seen hauling small chests out of the dragonglass cave and then later loading them onto the boats. Quite right. The chests had a “chunky” rattle to them, as well. Mind, they might have been full of loose socket sets and cans of tuna. Or SPAM. Also, not sure what is a spoiler here, so I will tag it–this is a reference to two points in the official HBO trailer for next week’s show, and what I _think_ I saw: [spoiler] in the official HBO trailer, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stw6INIS570](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stw6INIS570) , at the :32 and :45 second mark, look at the weapons Tormund and The Hound are wielding. And yes, that sounds like a dick joke. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/188 "2017-08-14T22:47:05Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Any guesses on who is going to make it back from beyond the wall? I think we may lose all of the Suicide Squad except for Jon and one other person. Who the other one is, I’m not sure. Alas, I do not think it’ll be Tormund. For who dies, I would guess Beric – he’s had a long life and several deaths, and a perma-death while fighting with a flaming sword defending the others would be an excellent end for him. Probably not Gendry – why bring him back just to kill him? Probably not Sandor, who still has to fight the Mountain. Maybe Thoros, who might not serve any other purpose. Maybe Jorah, who had his emotional reunion with Dany, and dying heroically beyond the wall, just like his father, would be fitting. Certainly not Jon. Maybe Tormund, but I think he still has to meet Brienne again. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/189 "2017-08-14T22:52:56Z")
I think it is a safe assumption that Bronn wasn’t using poison spears against Drogon. Speaking of Bronn, Cersei did give Jaime an order to punish him… I did notice a theme of characters questioning their leaders’ actions. Tyrion and Varys were both critical of Dany, Tyrion was especially vocal about it. Jaime also seemed troubled with Cersei’s order. And Arya was giving Sansa quite a bit of a headache in Sansa/Ned/Cat’s chambers. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/190 "2017-08-14T22:55:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m with her on this. > > If she lets them go, they’re going to continue the fight, and Tarly Sr. is an excellent commander. Letting them go will result in more of her people dying. > > She doesn’t have the infrastructure set up for keeping long-term POWs, as she stated during her speech. > > He refuses to accept exile to the Night’s Watch–and by implication, any exile. > > Even as a prisoner staring death in the eyes, he does his best to undermine her in front of all these other soldiers. > > Now, maybe she should have beheaded him instead of roasting him. But everything else she decided was defensible, IMO. I don’t disagree really though I know others won’t see it that way. I’m against capital punishment but have no problems with people killing themselves which they clearly did. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/191 "2017-08-14T23:40:40Z")
A pundit on YouTube theorized that the worst scene ever on GoT-- Bronn dragging Jaime out of the lake-- was because they had a shot of Jaime sinking into the deep that was attached to another battle scene with a bunch of Lannisters struggling to get out of their armor that was removed from the shooting script and fell in love with it. Without that shot everything makes more sense. There’s no bottomless lake, no drowned Jaime. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/192 "2017-08-14T23:49:05Z")
Since Joss Whedon didn’t write the next episode, I’m pretty sure Gendry makes it out alive. Same for Jon and the Hound. Everybody else - dead wight walking. You know, for maximum angst, that Brielle will have to face off against zombie Tormund next season. But this is the stupidest plan I’ve ever seen. IOW, a typical Jon plan. Has the man _ever_ made a right decision? Based on what we’ve seen, I’d have fragged his ass, too. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/193 "2017-08-15T00:04:50Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Won’t Gilly’s discovery (about Jon being legitimate) give it away? At some crucial moment, Sam will remember what Gilly said, and voila, lightbulb-over-head. Or oil-lamp over head. Unlike GOT viewers, Sam hasn’t been obsessing with theories about Jon’s parentage for the last several years. Like almost everyone else in Westeros, he has no reason to question the “fact” that Jon is Ned’s bastard, and no reason to even suspect that the annulment has anything to do with Jon. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/194 "2017-08-15T00:57:46Z")
I consider the shot of Jamie sinking at the end of the last episode to be a bit of artistic license. He’s just falling into a normal river, not into a bottomless hole. It’s an emotional depiction, not a literal one. Again, we aren’t watching a documentary. If Jamie and Bronn resurfaced a bit downstream, then by definition it’s the kind of river in which you can fall and then resurface a bit downstream. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/195 "2017-08-15T01:15:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I consider the shot of Jamie sinking at the end of the last episode to be a bit of artistic license. He’s just falling into a normal river, not into a bottomless hole. It’s an emotional depiction, not a literal one. Again, we aren’t watching a documentary. If Jamie and Bronn resurfaced a bit downstream, then by definition it’s the kind of river in which you can fall and then resurface a bit downstream. Hmm, that’s an interesting way of looking at it. I like it. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/196 "2017-08-15T01:49:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Yeah, Jaime and Bronn escaping makes no sense at all. I thought it was going to be interesting having them as Tyrion’s prisoner, but instead we have an extremely implausible resolution… It would’ve made a lot more sense if Jaime (& Bronn) had been captured by Daenerys’s forces, had his meeting with Tyrion, and then was released to take the armistice offer back to Cersei. Of course then Davos sneaking into King’s Lander to retrieve Gendry would’ve been it’s own subplot. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > You totally missed the point of that, and it was a **huge** reveal. Jon being a _legitimate_ Targaryen and not a _bastard_ son of a Targaryen means he is the rightful heir of the Seven Kingdoms. Although that’s not exactly going to change Dany’s mind about what she thinks is hers, that’s going to be a hard pill for her to swallow. Jon’s not now and unless Daenerys dies will probably never be in a position to press his “rightful claim” to the Iron Throne. In fact openly acknowledging his true parenthood would probably undercut his support in the North. And Daenerys does end up sitting on the Iron Throne it’ll be by right of conquest, not because she’s last legitimate Targaryen. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > …Cersei’s delusional if she thinks the people will merrily accept an openly incestuous relationship with her brother. Wasn’t the the War of the Five Kings fought over the notion that her children were bastards born of incest? And she expects to tell her subjects that their enemies were right all along? Does she plan to marry Jaime so her newest child will at least not be a bastard?.. In Cersei’s defence Westeros’s previous royal family openly practiced sibling incest for generations, but yes she’s delusional about this (& many other things). And while she has as much intention of actually marrying Euron as he does of not killing her & seizing her throne he’s not done being useful to her yet so she needs to keep stringing him alone. > [@Smid](#): > > 1. Did I miss the bit which inferred Cersei was pregnant? Sure they’ve been shagging recently, but they were in the first episode and since then. Also a bit late in life to be having a baby in a medieval land… Cersei’s only in her mid-40s; she could still plausibly have gotten pregnant with any magic or mad science by Qyburn. I’m not convinced she really his pregnant though; Qyburn could’ve misdiagnosed a tumor or Cersei could just be faking to manipulate Jaimie (one of my coworkers is convinced of this). > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > No he doesn’t. Gilly’s baby is not Sam’s biological son, and even if he was, would be a bastard. > > For all we know, there are uncles and cousin Tarlys galore. Plus Sam has a sister. And that sister is now Lady of Horn Hill. Whoever she maries become Lord of Horn Hill _jure uxoris_, and that’s not just speculation either. It was established on the show when Jaimie tried to marry Bronn off to an heiress (well technically his bride’s spinster sister was the heiress) he’d acquire her title & castle. > [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > We saw [Qyburn with her](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtenokgqEOg) saying that he “Could give her something,” we know Maester Wolkan could tell Walda was pregnant (and the sex of the baby), presumably Qyburn can tell too… I think the maesters can diagnose pregnancy at least as well as a premodern doctor or midwife, but I doubt Wolkan could actually tell the sex of the baby. He made an observation based on how she was carrying (which means nothing) that knew would be pleasing to his lord, had a 50% of getting right, and could easily back down from if he turned out wrong. > [@msmith537](#): > > Although technically “King of the North” would outrank “Lady of Winterfell”… Granted this is probably the first time in history those titles have been held by separate people. > [@Colibri](#): > > She said that the reason was because she didn’t think she could control her emotions and give an appropriate performance if she had actually been naked… Also this time she would’ve been on a closed set (not outside with hundreds of extras) and her emotional performance wasn’t nearly has complex. > [@Biggirl](#): > > A pundit on YouTube theorized that the worst scene ever on GoT-- Bronn dragging Jaime out of the lake-- was because they had a shot of Jaime sinking into the deep that was attached to another battle scene with a bunch of Lannisters struggling to get out of their armor that was removed from the shooting script and fell in love with it. Without that shot everything makes more sense. There’s no bottomless lake, no drowned Jaime. That makes a lot of sense. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/197 "2017-08-15T02:02:41Z")
A year ago, if someone here had said that Season 7 Episode 4 would feature a scene with The Hound, Gendry, Jon Snow and Jorah Mormont you’d ask for some of what they’re smoking. Tormund Giantsbane got all the best lines in a few minutes of screen time. “Which queen…? The one with the dragons or the one who fucks her brother?” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/198 "2017-08-15T03:06:54Z")
It’s notable that most of the Suicide Squad are walking dead men. They have either been actually dead or else have been doomed at some point. Jon and Beric have actually been dead, Beric several times. The Hound was left for dead and was believed so for several seasons. Gendry has been marked for death on two separate occasions. Jorah had a supposedly incurable and fatal disease. He still is under sentence of death in Westeros for slaving. Thoros, Beric, and the Hound have been marked for death by Arya, though this is probably not still operative for them. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/199 "2017-08-15T03:33:00Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s notable that most of the Suicide Squad are walking dead men. They have either been actually dead or else have been doomed at some point. > > Jon and Beric have actually been dead, Beric several times. > > The Hound was left for dead and was believed so for several seasons. > > Gendry has been marked for death on two separate occasions. > > Jorah had a supposedly incurable and fatal disease. He still is under sentence of death in Westeros for slaving. > > Thoros, Beric, and the Hound have been marked for death by Arya, though this is probably not still operative for them. Good points, all. That only leaves Tormund… ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/200 "2017-08-15T05:58:55Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > The Night’s King has [giant wights](http://screencrush.com/files/2017/07/gots-wight-pic.jpg?w=720) and [giants can use bows.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5G4262KfRJY/hqdefault.jpg) If you look at leftmost giant in the wight army looks like he has a bow on his back. My prediction - one of Dany’s dragons is downed and killed with giant arrow and risen as an ice dragon by the Night’s King. Do wights have the intelligence to use a bow and arrow? They didn’t use any at Hardhome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=11)