# Game of Thrones 7.05 "Eastwatch" 8/13/17 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585 "2017-08-13T22:26:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/241 "2017-08-15T17:50:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …At this point in the story, I think the only thing important about Gendry is that he has King’s blood, which may matter at some point. > … I can get behind the idea of Targaryen blood being “special” (it apparently provides a connection with dragons); but Baratheon blood? Robert Baratheon was a usurper who had held the throne only for a few years. “Specialness”, it seems, is granted to any schmoe who happens to sit on the throne. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/242 "2017-08-15T17:53:00Z")
Politically, Gendry’s purpose might be to help get the Stormlands (of which the Baratheons used to be the rulers) behind Daenerys, though the Stormlands haven’t played a significant role in the show IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/243 "2017-08-15T17:54:16Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > This week in the opening, no arrow. All better. It was only a flesh wound. The arrow really shouldn’t have injured him very much. It didn’t go in beyond the head, no more than a foot into muscle. The unrealistic thing was Drogon being knocked out of the sky by what was really a mere toothpick compared to his size. Drogon was being a big baby. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/244 "2017-08-15T17:59:33Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I can get behind the idea of Targaryen blood being “special” (it apparently provides a connection with dragons); but Baratheon blood? It seemed pretty useful when it created that shadow demon and cursed all those usurpers… ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/245 "2017-08-15T18:08:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Politically, Gendry’s purpose might be to help get the Stormlands (of which the Baratheons used to be the rulers) behind Daenerys, though the Stormlands haven’t played a significant role in the show IIRC. Well they formed a central part of the army of Renly Baratheon and after his death were nominally under Stannis’ control. But I imagine much of their manpower was at least temporarily exhausted at the battle of the Blackwater. As far as Baratheon blood goes, I just can’t remember how much has been discussed in show about their heritage. But generally - all noble houses interbreed. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/246 "2017-08-15T18:13:28Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Well, they were on the other side of a surprisingly wide and deep river. That part of it is actually the most believable part - if you can accept them getting there, then they’re safe. Dothraki ride, they do not row boats or swim. But where was horse? Ah, nevermind. > [@Biggirl](#): > > A pundit on YouTube theorized that the worst scene ever on GoT-- Bronn dragging Jaime out of the lake-- was because they had a shot of Jaime sinking into the deep that was attached to another battle scene with a bunch of Lannisters struggling to get out of their armor that was removed from the shooting script and fell in love with it. Without that shot everything makes more sense. There’s no bottomless lake, no drowned Jaime. That would make a lot more sense, you got a link to the pundit? > [@alphaboi867](#): > > I think the maesters can diagnose pregnancy at least as well as a premodern doctor or midwife, but I doubt Wolkan could actually tell the sex of the baby. He made an observation based on how she was carrying (which means nothing) that knew would be pleasing to his lord, had a 50% of getting right, and could easily back down from if he turned out wrong. Possible, though when Walda was preggers Roose told Ramsay that from the way she was carrying, Wolkan said it looked like a boy and judging from Ramsay’s reaction he took it serious enough. Or Roose might just have been trolling him, I guess. > [@thirdname](#): > > Do wights have the intelligence to use a bow and arrow? They didn’t use any at Hardhome. They use [swords](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4zOAXoQaFo) when they attack Jojen, can’t remember them using a bow and arrow but it doesn’t seem too far-fetched. > [@jsc1953](#): > > I can get behind the idea of Targaryen blood being “special” (it apparently provides a connection with dragons); but Baratheon blood? Robert Baratheon was a usurper who had held the throne only for a few years. “Specialness”, it seems, is granted to any schmoe who happens to sit on the throne. Baratheon blood has a bit of Targaryen blood in it, going back to Orys Baratheon who was Aegon’s bastard half-brother (this is on the History & Lore feature on the DVD, Robert mentions how the blood of the stag and the dragon mixed in those days). More importantly Gendry’s Baratheon blood gives him the best claim to the Stormlands against…er…whoever the hell is in charge there, probably some former bannermen. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/247 "2017-08-15T18:16:12Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Well, Littlefinger’s schemes ended up killing the only person he claimed to love, so she’s not entirely alone. Baelish actually tried to help Ned succeed at first and gave him good advice on how to make it work. Ned stubbornly wanted to do it the right way, which left Baelish little option but to make sure he was on the winning side. > [@](#): > > And that brings up the question, who does Varys care about? His motivations are much more of a mystery at this point than Littlefinger’s, unless the writers are playing the “people’s champion” card straight. I don’t buy it. Somebody paid a lot of money for the opportunity to ritualistically burn his genitals. He’s not just a commoner trying to improve the lives of other commoners, or his actions to this point would have been far different. He’s important, not a jumped up street urchin. A lost Targaryen or something. And that implies hidden motivations. I’m actually more confused by Littlefinger than Varys. Varys is a player but he always seems to be trying to move things in a better direction. Littlefinger is trying to benefit himself, but I’m not sure what his eventual goal is supposed to be. Maybe Lord of Winterfell? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/248 "2017-08-15T18:17:52Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > That would make a lot more sense, you got a link to the pundit? [What The Flick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hKvp7EFwWI&t=538s) ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/249 "2017-08-15T18:25:57Z")
> [@](#): > > To late to add: > > Y’know, I rather like this confusion of names. TV shows have a tendency to change names to avoid just that sort of viewer confusion - they want every character to be distinct and memorable. But medieval families of course both tended to reuse the same names over and over again to the point of tedium and when the didn’t, did occasionally borrow names from higher strata in the feudal chain. Having Lyanna Mormont named for her liege lord’s daughter is fairly realistic. Yes, the show also goes against convention by having closely connected characters with similar names - Tywin and Tyrion, for example. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/250 "2017-08-15T18:42:11Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Yes, the show also goes against convention by having closely connected characters with similar names - Tywin and Tyrion, for example. The TV show did change a few names. Robert Arryn –\> Robin Arryn, Asha Greyjoy –\> Yara Greyjoy. > [@adaher](#): > > Littlefinger is trying to benefit himself, but I’m not sure what his eventual goal is supposed to be. Maybe Lord of Winterfell? It’s pretty clear that Littlefinger ultimately desires the Iron Throne itself. Varys himself said that Littlefinger would “see this country burn if he could be king of the ashes.” ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/251 "2017-08-15T19:14:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m actually more confused by Littlefinger than Varys. Varys is a player but he always seems to be trying to move things in a better direction. Littlefinger is trying to benefit himself, but I’m not sure what his eventual goal is supposed to be. Maybe Lord of Winterfell? He _says_ he wants to end up on the throne with Sansa as his Queen. I don’t really see any reason to doubt that. Knowing his back story (son of a low-level, recently-titled lord of the Vale with very little land or wealth) and how he was spurned and/or ignored by higher-ranking lords like the Tullys, Arryns and Starks in his youth, it would seem that he wants revenge on those houses in particular. Mostly by sowing chaos and sparking wars that end with their families dying. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/252 "2017-08-15T20:29:05Z")
Cersie is going to get every last man, woman, and child killed by the army of darkness with her idiocy. Everyone dies when she switches sides at some point thinking she can handle the nights king by herself. Jamie ganks her with a prison shank in the neck. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/253 "2017-08-15T20:46:26Z")
This is a little bit out of left field, so I apologize, but does Bronn’s accent suggest to British viewers his humble origins? What about the other characters - do lowborn characters tend to have working class speech, and highborn characters more posh speech? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/254 "2017-08-15T21:14:53Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > This is a little bit out of left field, so I apologize, but does Bronn’s accent suggest to British viewers his humble origins? What about the other characters - do lowborn characters tend to have working class speech, and highborn characters more posh speech? No, but recently I was confused by how Jon, Ned, and some other Northern folk have Scottish-like accents (I’ve never been to Scotland, so I’m going by “movie accents” here), but also so does Davos. And plenty of other Northerners don’t have Scottish accents. Which could be evidence of a sort of Westerosi “received pronunciation”. But I’m not so sure the characters’ accents aren’t just their actors’ accents. As detailed as the show is, I’m not so sure they are so detailed as to assign accents to characters based on their origins. Or else flea-bottom-born Davos has some explaining to do. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/255 "2017-08-15T21:26:23Z")
Not just Scottish, but tons of Yorkshire accents in the north. Davos has sort of a Newcastle accent, which is yes, north of Yorkshire, but you shouldn’t assume that that implies geographical equivalence in Westeros. Sansa has a more southern accent fitting with her striving. I’m not sure where to put Arya or Robert. Other than that, many of the northern actors (Jeor, Jorah, etc.) are from Scotland. Lorath is Germany, I guess, as the one Lorathi character is German, and the other main German actor pretended to be Lorathi. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/256 "2017-08-15T21:31:44Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > This is a little bit out of left field, so I apologize, but does Bronn’s accent suggest to British viewers his humble origins? What about the other characters - do lowborn characters tend to have working class speech, and highborn characters more posh speech? Bronn has a Yorkshire type accent, definitely a lot more working class than [Jerome Flynn without his accent](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TyNRW5zDfU) > [@DrCube](#): > > No, but recently I was confused by how Jon, Ned, and some other Northern folk have Scottish-like accents (I’ve never been to Scotland, so I’m going by “movie accents” here), but also so does Davos. And plenty of other Northerners don’t have Scottish accents. Which could be evidence of a sort of Westerosi “received pronunciation”. > > But I’m not so sure the characters’ accents aren’t just their actors’ accents. As detailed as the show is, I’m not so sure they are so detailed as to assign accents to characters based on their origins. Or else flea-bottom-born Davos has some explaining to do. Don’t know where you get the Scottish? Jon and Ned are in no way Scottish to my ear, Sean Bean is a native Yorkshireman so he doesn’t have to affect an accent, Kit affects…sounds to me sort of a mix of Yorkshire/Lancashire to sound ‘generic northerner’ accent, again of more humble/rustic means than [Kit’s natural accent](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9F6LPWrsIA). Davos’s accent is Geordie, that is someone from Newcastle. As well as being incomprehensible when they want to be, it has a very working class/industrial/tough reputation. Liam Cunningham [has a Dubliner Irish accent naturally](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toam5br4lBE). ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/257 "2017-08-15T22:25:29Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What Littlefinger knows is not that Lyanna had a kid with Rhaegar but that she was not kidnapped and raped, she went willingly with Rhaegar. Maybe, but since those secrets are quite interrelated, it seems likely that if he knows one, he knows the other. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/258 "2017-08-15T22:29:57Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What Littlefinger knows is not that Lyanna had a kid with Rhaegar but that she was not kidnapped and raped, she went willingly with Rhaegar. Really, I think if you know that it’s not a big leap to guess that Jon is their son. You have Ned, **the most honorable man in Westeros** , going to get her, and instead coming back saying Rhaeger raped and murder her, oh and by the way I have a bastard son now. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/259 "2017-08-15T22:39:20Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Interesting yes, but also out of character and far fetched. Cercei;s one redeeming feature is that she loves her children; it is implausible to believe that she would abandon one of them in infancy. Also, she was queen at the time; it would be absurd to think she could just stroll out of the Keep and hand off a baby. > > I think Sam Stone has it right, Gendry was brought back to die heroically saving a more significant character. It’s been a long time since I watched those episodes, but I came away with the strong impression that Cersei murdered that baby herself. She loved her children with Jaime, but definitely not Robert’s child. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/260 "2017-08-15T23:47:54Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Unlike GOT viewers, Sam hasn’t been obsessing with theories about Jon’s parentage for the last several years. Like almost everyone else in Westeros, he has no reason to question the “fact” that Jon is Ned’s bastard, and no reason to even suspect that the annulment has anything to do with Jon. You’re right. But at the same time, Sam’s plot function seems to be to Realize Important Stuff. So I wouldn’t like to bet against the possibility of a future scene in which he recalls Gilly’s discovery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=14)