# Game of Thrones 7.05 "Eastwatch" 8/13/17 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585 "2017-08-13T22:26:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/281 "2017-08-16T16:44:00Z")
> [@Lare](#): > > Ever try to go jogging with a teeny, tiny rock in your shoe? In the right place an external irritant can have an effect all out of proportiin to its size. When I have a teeny, tiny rock in my shoe it doesn’t usually cause me to come crashing to the ground. Usually. Irritant, sure. But the injury to Drogon was about equivalent to you stepping on a thumbtack. Ouchy, for sure, but not crippling. In any case, that must have been an extremely lucky shot. Even a bolt that large should have just bounced off a dragon’s scales. It must have hit a soft spot between two scales. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/282 "2017-08-16T17:01:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Irritant, sure. But the injury to Drogon was about equivalent to you stepping on a thumbtack. Ouchy, for sure, but not crippling. Which seems to be about what happened. To use your example, if I were jogging with a thumbtack in my foot, I’d stop immediately, pull it out (assuming I can’t get Dany to do it for me) and in the next scene I’d be back to normal. I don’t remember: Did we see any sign of a scab or scar afterward? ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/283 "2017-08-16T17:14:45Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Speaking of plot devices: I wonder why GRRM invented greyscale. The only person we know who caught it, got cured. If Jorah had never contracted it would the storyline have been any different? GRRM didn’t write the script for the show, any (in)significance it might have on the show doesn’t necessarily reflect what GRRM originally had planned to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/284 "2017-08-16T17:30:56Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Tyrion would be easily recognized no matter what he was wearing. After the bounty placed on his head I imagine there are few, if any, male dwarves left in Westeros. No need to make it easy for them though. Even if there’s been a (male) dwarficide, there are still children, female dwaves etc that mean if he wears more humble clothes, and tries to cover his head at least a little, and shaves\*, he won’t stand out from a distance. Meanwhile there’s _no reason_ to wear fancy clothes. His brother and Bronn will recognize him no matter what. And the walk back to the boat was kinda silly. It’s a stretch imagining in a place as open as a beach he’d get that close before noticing there were soldiers there. - Obviously it’s not worth Dinklage actually shaving just for that one scene, so I’d give them a pass on that, but not the clothes. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/285 "2017-08-16T17:40:13Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Even if there’s been a (male) dwarficide, there are still children, female dwaves etc that mean if he wears more humble clothes, and tries to cover his head at least a little, and shaves\*, he won’t stand out from a distance. He was clean shaven when he left King’s Landing, so the beard is actually a better disguise. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/286 "2017-08-16T18:06:08Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > He was clean shaven when he left King’s Landing, so the beard is actually a better disguise. Also, the guards specifically mention that Cersie was looking of a dwarf with a scar on his face. The weren’t concerned with his clothes or his beard. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/287 "2017-08-16T18:21:09Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > GRRM didn’t write the script for the show, any (in)significance it might have on the show doesn’t necessarily reflect what GRRM originally had planned to do with it. He did write some episodes, though nothing recent I think. Looks like S4E2 was the last one. I get the point you’re making though. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/288 "2017-08-16T20:06:59Z")
Great episode, all in all. Glad to have Gendry back. Jon bonding with the dragon was very nice. And Cersei is (maybe) pregnant! > [@Stringbean](#): > > Bronn and Jaime just magically get away by floating far away from the scene? After everyone saw them fall into the water right next to Daenerys and Tyrion? > > Awful, mind-numbingly bad start to the episode. Well, OK, there was that. Not a high point of the show. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > A long, long time ago I saw a story about something that happened in the days they had continuing serial stories at the movies. Where each week would end on a cliff hangar… A cliff hangar would be a good place to keep your dragons, come to think of it. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Loved the “thought you might still be rowing” from Davos. > > Right now there’s a Westerosi Magnificent Seven north of the Wall. Can’t wait to see how that turns out! Agreed as to both. And behold!: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHNdnUOVwAIo9VZ.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHNdnUOVwAIo9VZ.jpg) > [@TruCelt](#): > > Dear Og, the subtlety of Peter Dinklage. It’s just incredible. I’ve watched the scene three times now, and I still can’t put my finger on how he did it. But somehow, with the twitch of a hair or the pose of his hand on the wine glass, he some way made it clear before he said it, that his next line would be “What does it say?” > > Masterful. Absolutely. Loved that scene. > [@carlb](#): > > And, I wouldn’t say Jon ignored his vows. He served until he died. Didn’t Stannis say he was willing to release Jon from his NW vows and/or royally pardon him? Any king could get someone off NW duties if he really wanted to, I think. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …They also made it very clear that the dragon was sniffing him very carefully, and it liked what it smelled. Targary[e]n he is. And Jon seemed just as drawn to the dragon… Yes. And Dany’s amazed reaction spoke volumes, too. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …I was disappointed that Arya didn’t encounter Lady Mormont. I’d definitely watch a show about Brienne, Arya and the littlest bear travelling around writing wrongs, with Podrick as their squire/comic relief. That could be a great GOT spinoff right there! > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > …Along those lines, does it bother anyone that they aren’t bringing along a cage? With a cart and a horse to pull it?.. Take another look when King Jon & Co. go out through the gate at Eastwatch. It’s just barely visible, but they’re being followed by some men who look to be dragging or carrying something. I’m betting it’s an undead-proof cage. > [@Smid](#): > > …I think I now immediately start blacking out when the requisite one 10 minute nude scene per episode involves eunochs… Make up your mind! > **[Eunuch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch)** > > A eunuch (/ˈjuːnək/ ⓘ YOO-nək) is a male who has been castrated. Throughout history, castration often served a specific social function. The earliest records for intentional castration to produce eunuchs are from the Sumerian city of Lagash in the 2nd millennium BCE. Over the millennia since, they have performed a wide variety of functions in many different cultures: courtiers or equivalent domestics, for espionage or clandestine operations, castrato singers, concubines or sexual part Eunuchs w... > **[Aurochs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs)** > > The aurochs (Bos primigenius) (/ˈɔːrɒks/ or /ˈaʊrɒks/) is an extinct cattle species, considered to be the wild ancestor of modern domestic cattle. With a shoulder height of up to 180 cm (71 in) in bulls and 155 cm (61 in) in cows, it was one of the largest herbivores in the Holocene; it had massive elongated and broad horns that reached 80 cm (31 in) in length. > The aurochs was part of the Pleistocene megafauna. It probably evolved in Asia and migrated west and north during warm interglacia... > [@DigitalC](#): > > Did you already forget about Nathalie Emmanuel? she was perfection. :: drifts into a sexual daydream :: Hmm, sorry - what was that you said…? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/289 "2017-08-16T20:39:24Z")
> [@Lare](#): > > Which seems to be about what happened. To use your example, if I were jogging with a thumbtack in my foot, I’d stop immediately, pull it out (assuming I can’t get Dany to do it for me) and in the next scene I’d be back to normal. That’s nothing like what happened. Drogon went into a tailspin and essentially fell out of the sky, plunging hundreds of feet straight down and barely pulling out of it just before he hit the ground. Danaerys was having a hard time holding on to him, and the look on Tyrion’s face indicated he thought they were goners. It would be like stepping on a thumbtack while jogging and nearly falling flat on your face, barely saving yourself from smashing into the ground at the last minute by putting out your hand. He makes a pretty good recovery when he does pull up. But once he lands and Danearys dismounts he crawls along the ground as if he is really hurt. He yelps when Danearys tries to pull out the bolt. He was being a big baby. Obviously, it was set up to make Drogon’s injury look much more serious than it actually was to increase the drama. > [@](#): > > I don’t remember: Did we see any sign of a scab or scar afterward? No. Drogon was perfectly chipper and ready to toast Tarleys as soon as the battle was over. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/290 "2017-08-16T22:17:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It would be like stepping on a thumbtack while jogging and nearly falling flat on your face, barely saving yourself from smashing into the ground at the last minute by putting out your hand. > > He makes a pretty good recovery when he does pull up. But once he lands and Danearys dismounts he crawls along the ground as if he is really hurt. He yelps when Danearys tries to pull out the bolt. He was being a big baby. Agreed about the big baby - but then I don’t think he’s ever been hurt before (except maybe play-fighting with his siblings?). You’re running/thumbtack analogy is apt, I think, but I think Drogon’s response was realistic. He’s got something in his shoulder/wing, it hurts if he flaps his wing, so he stops flying. Noticing the ground coming up fast, he decides a little pain is better than face-planting, tries the wing and determines it doesn’t actually hurt that bad. Until Mom starts screwing with it when she isn’t strong enough to actually pull it out and so just wiggles it around (which probably really did hurt). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/291 "2017-08-16T22:38:16Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Agreed about the big baby - but then I don’t think he’s ever been hurt before (except maybe play-fighting with his siblings?). He was wounded by a couple of spears in Meereen during the assassination attempt on Dany by the Sons of the Harpy. But he was only about a tenth the size he is now, maybe the size of an elephant. Even so he was able to fly away with Dany. But he is injured enough so she can’t get him to fly back right away, leading to her capture by the Dothraki. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/292 "2017-08-16T22:58:55Z")
Commenting an episode late here… but the thing that bugged me the most about Drogon’s injury was … What the heck was she doing another pass for? She broke the line and they were routed. Let the Dothraki clean up. As soon as she came around for an entirely unnecessary pass I knew it was only to get shot down. Once the first bolt narrowly missed, _she knew it too_.:smack: She and Jon are perfect for each other in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/293 "2017-08-16T23:10:30Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > She and Jon are perfect for each other in this regard. In that they, combined, have the tactical skills of a walnut? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/294 "2017-08-16T23:12:50Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > It’s like Sam had a Citadel checklist. Mountain of dragonglass…cure for greyscale…annullment. OK, my work here is done, let’s go. > Speaking of plot devices: I wonder why GRRM invented greyscale. The only person we know who caught it, got cured. If Jorah had never contracted it would the storyline have been any different? > [@Mogle](#): > > GRRM didn’t write the script for the show, any (in)significance it might have on the show doesn’t necessarily reflect what GRRM originally had planned to do with it. It’s still a valid point about the show’s writing; maybe they will do something that gives significance to greyscale beyond the didn’t-seem-to-lead-to-much stories of Jorah and Shireen. But then again, maybe they won’t. Maybe the show’s writers considered it merely something to fill the time and provide a bit of emotional angst for viewers. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Although, I don’t think I see all the sexual tension between Daenerys and Jon Snow that everyone else thinks is so obvious. I don’t see much sexual tension, but I _am_ assuming that the final episode of the series will contain a Restoration of the Natural Order scene–that is, after all the emphasis on Daenerys asking people to Bend the Knee, she will Bend the Knee to Jon (as his properly-submissive bride) and the vast majority of the audience will sigh with satisfaction that the world has been put right. If the writers _aren’t_ building toward that, I will be astonished. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/295 "2017-08-16T23:50:12Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > If the writers _aren’t_ building toward that, I will be astonished. I’d prepare in advance then. GRRM has characterized the ending as “bittersweet.” Dany kneeling before the stupidest man in the North doesn’t quite fit that description. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/296 "2017-08-17T00:41:04Z")
Aside from the general idiocy of the “catch a zombie for Cersei” plan, doesn’t it seem like the wights are the instruments of the White Walkers, under their direct control? Recall the iconic shot at the end of Hardhome, where the Night King raises his arms to reanimate all the freshly killed bodies. Is there any evidence that wights can maintain an independent existence if physically removed from the sphere of influence (the cold zone, presumably) of the White Walkers? If we want a comedic end to this dumb plotline, perhaps they will succeed in kidnapping a wight at great cost, only to find that it collapses in a heap of dead bones once they carry it south of the snow line. Then they realize that they do have plenty of dragonglass, so one of them volunteers to be stabbed in the heart to be turned into a White Walker to reanimate the wight… at which point they realize that they could just have gone WW locally at Dragonstone, and reanimated any old dead body for Cersei’s benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/297 "2017-08-17T00:54:29Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s still a valid point about the show’s writing; maybe they will do something that gives significance to greyscale beyond the didn’t-seem-to-lead-to-much stories of Jorah and Shireen. But then again, maybe they won’t. Maybe the show’s writers considered it merely something to fill the time and provide a bit of emotional angst for viewers. > > I don’t see much sexual tension, but I _am_ assuming that the final episode of the series will contain a Restoration of the Natural Order scene–that is, after all the emphasis on Daenerys asking people to Bend the Knee, she will Bend the Knee to Jon (as his properly-submissive bride) and the vast majority of the audience will sigh with satisfaction that the world has been put right. > > If the writers _aren’t_ building toward that, I will be astonished. This entire series has been about dismantling fantasy tropes. If it ends with the true male heir saving the days, I will be extremely disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/298 "2017-08-17T00:57:03Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Aside from the general idiocy of the “catch a zombie for Cersei” plan, doesn’t it seem like the wights are the instruments of the White Walkers, under their direct control? Recall the iconic shot at the end of Hardhome, where the Night King raises his arms to reanimate all the freshly killed bodies. Is there any evidence that wights can maintain an independent existence if physically removed from the sphere of influence (the cold zone, presumably) of the White Walkers? > > If we want a comedic end to this dumb plotline, perhaps they will succeed in kidnapping a wight at great cost, only to find that it collapses in a heap of dead bones once they carry it south of the snow line. Then they realize that they do have plenty of dragonglass, so one of them volunteers to be stabbed in the heart to be turned into a White Walker to reanimate the wight… at which point they realize that they could just have gone WW locally at Dragonstone, and reanimated any old dead body for Cersei’s benefit. 1. We have seen wights go into action in Castle Black, far from the White Walkers 2. We have no reason to believe that just anyone doing nothing but stabbing any old person in the heart with dragon glass will create a new Nights King. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/299 "2017-08-17T01:04:44Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > It’s a show for Americans and to Americans every british accent is pretty much the same. English people can pick out regional accents but an American could hear the lowest class accent in Britain and think that person has tea and strumpets with the queen. Queen in to strumpets is she…? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/300 "2017-08-17T01:08:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. We have no reason to believe that just anyone doing nothing but stabbing any old person in the heart with dragon glass will create a new Nights King. Yes, of course. Some other magic was probably involved. In any event, we’re all pretty much expecting that one or more major characters (a dragon even) will be wighted at some stage. I think a major character (Cersei!) turning WW would be pretty cool too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=16)