# Game of Thrones 7.05 "Eastwatch" 8/13/17 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585 "2017-08-13T22:26:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/301 "2017-08-17T01:18:04Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > He was clean shaven when he left King’s Landing, so the beard is actually a better disguise. I’m aware of that, the point is that if male adult dwarves are automatically under suspicion then a beard is not a good choice of disguise. > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Also, the guards specifically mention that Cersie was looking of a dwarf with a scar on his face. The weren’t concerned with his clothes or his beard. Tyrion has been gone a long time (years?). And as I say, of course there are still plenty of people of Tyrion’s height in king’s landing. If he wears humble clothes maybe no-one bothers to take a close look at him as he sneaks in and out. Meanwhile, what is the point of wearing fancy, Tyrion-esque clothes? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/302 "2017-08-17T01:22:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This entire series has been about dismantling fantasy tropes. If it ends with the true male heir saving the days, I will be extremely disappointed. Tropes have been dismantled, but that’s not _the point_. I doubt GRRM and maybe D&D are that gimmicky, because then it becomes expected, sort of like the niche people put M. Night Shymalan in. They already tried to bring a wight _hand_ to KL via Thorne but it decayed due to delays because Thorne was a dick. Presumably the wights can cross the wall (as they did thousands of years ago), just they don’t do well in summer or fall heat. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/303 "2017-08-17T01:42:40Z")
Do we ever see bare skeleton wights? Maybe once all the meat rots off, they stop working? That’s why it has to be cold, the White Walkers are walking refrigerators. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/304 "2017-08-17T02:09:35Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Do we ever see bare skeleton wights? Maybe once all the meat rots off, they stop working? That’s why it has to be cold, the White Walkers are walking refrigerators. The closest are probably the ones that killed Jojen. Some meat IIRC but not much. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/305 "2017-08-17T02:32:54Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Do we ever see bare skeleton wights? Maybe once all the meat rots off, they stop working? That’s why it has to be cold, the White Walkers are walking refrigerators. > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > The closest are probably the ones that killed Jojen. Some meat IIRC but not much. Right. The wights that attacked when Jojen was killed were pretty much bare skeletons, with no muscle tissue remaining. They presumably had to have some tendons holding the bones together. But they were animated by magic, not by muscles, even rotted ones. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/306 "2017-08-17T02:36:55Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Tropes have been dismantled, but that’s not _the point_. I doubt GRRM and maybe D&D are that gimmicky, because then it becomes expected, sort of like the niche people put M. Night Shymalan in. > > They already tried to bring a wight _hand_ to KL via Thorne but it decayed due to delays because Thorne was a dick. Presumably the wights can cross the wall (as they did thousands of years ago), just they don’t do well in summer or fall heat. I don’t consider it the point or a gimmick. I consider it part of the premise—that an age where men ruled through use of force was shitty for everyone else and there are no fairy tale endings. That leaves plenty of room for many different ways to end the story without betraying the premise. In fact, one of the big problems with the stereotypical fantasy story is that it serves up the same boring Ending, in an unimaginative way, just to satisfy audience expectations. It’s like ending every thriller with a car chase and a shoot out. Crossing those off the list of possibilities actually frees you instead of restricting you. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/307 "2017-08-17T02:39:01Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > Commenting an episode late here… but the thing that bugged me the most about Drogon’s injury was … What the heck was she doing another pass for? She broke the line and they were routed. Let the Dothraki clean up. As soon as she came around for an entirely unnecessary pass I knew it was only to get shot down. Once the first bolt narrowly missed, _she knew it too_.:smack: > > She and Jon are perfect for each other in this regard. Right. People have been calling Jaime stupid for his charge, but he was taking a long shot chance on ending the war. Dany _gave him_ the long shot chance by her stupidity. All she had to do was wheel around just out of range and the Dothraki would have chopped Bronn into kibble in five minutes. The only excuse for that might have been if the remaining Lannisters had made a last stand with a shield wall with Bronn and the scorpion in the center. But even then, it would have been better just to keep them surrounded and wait them out (although the Dothraki would have been too impatient to do that. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > If the writers _aren’t_ building toward that, I will be astonished. If Jon and Danaerys are both alive at the end, I will be astonished. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/308 "2017-08-17T03:51:43Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Also, the guards specifically mention that Cersie was looking of a dwarf with a scar on his face. The weren’t concerned with his clothes or his beard. Which is also dumb writing. He had been a member of the royal family, they would have known they weren’t just looking for a dwarf with a scar, but the queen’s brother who thousands of people had seen at ceremonies over the years. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/309 "2017-08-17T05:21:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t consider it the point or a gimmick. I consider it part of the premise—that an age where men ruled through use of force was shitty for everyone else and there are no fairy tale endings. That leaves plenty of room for many different ways to end the story without betraying the premise. > > In fact, one of the big problems with the stereotypical fantasy story is that it serves up the same boring Ending, in an unimaginative way, just to satisfy audience expectations. It’s like ending every thriller with a car chase and a shoot out. Crossing those off the list of possibilities actually frees you instead of restricting you. Maybe I misunderstood your first post. Daenerys could absolutely “win,” and that would be standard. But the bittersweet part would be a hollow “Queen of the Ashes” ending where not much is won, and her rapist army is still a problem. I guess I’m reacting to past posts on this series who hope she declares democracy and apple pie for everyone, which would be a stupid, typical ending. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/310 "2017-08-17T12:27:26Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Which is also dumb writing. He had been a member of the royal family, they would have known they weren’t just looking for a dwarf with a scar, but the queen’s brother who thousands of people had seen at ceremonies over the years. The guards were going to pop out their I-phones and compare the dwarf in front of them with the pictures they had? Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable, and there is no reason to think those two particular guards had ever seen Tyrion at all. Thousands of people may have seen him (years ago), but at a distance and even common folk/soldiers who got closer would mostly remember seeing a dwarf. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/311 "2017-08-17T12:57:06Z")
Before modern media technology, identifying even famous people in person was tricky. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/312 "2017-08-17T15:39:53Z")
WARNING: Some random jerk posted the final scene of this coming Sunday’s episode on Facebook and it is getting a bunch of attention. It is one of those “autoplay” videos and should NOT be seen by anyone who does not want to ruin the entire experience. The account was called “Cercei Lannister” and I reported it to Facebook. It leaked if you did not hear. The vid. is legit. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/313 "2017-08-17T16:06:18Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I don’t understand why they don’t just send one of the dragons north of the Wall and just start setting the White Walkers and wight on fire. It’s not like they have a Scorpion or anything. No need for a whole army and all this dragonglass mining. I have a GOT fan friend who’s suggested just that. Reminds me of Hitchcock’s remark: “The characters in my movies do not simply call the police because that would be no fun.” > [@Shakester](#): > > Robert Baratheon’s signature weapon was a war hammer; he famously used it to dispatch Rheagar. Gendry would know this, which would be another reason for him to adopt the weapon. Yes, I wondered why no one remarked on that. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > Tormund: “Did you bring the big woman?” > Jon: “No.” > [Tormund looks crestfallen]… > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For who dies… Maybe Tormund, but I think he still has to meet Brienne again. > [@jsc1953](#): > > …Tormund Giantsbane got all the best lines in a few minutes of screen time. “Which queen…? The one with the dragons or the one who fucks her brother?” I loves me some Tormund! So of course he’s gonna die… > [@zbuzz](#): > > I’m just glad Annie Wilkes isn’t around to be a Game of Thrones fan. > > “But I didn’t cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. ‘This isn’t what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia?! They just cheated us! This isn’t fair! HE DIDN"T GET OUT OF THE COCK-A-DOODIE LAKE!’” :: golf clap :: Fermented crab, anyone…? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/314 "2017-08-17T16:26:43Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Fermented crab, anyone…? Reminds me of the Simpsons: > [@](#): > > Homer Simpson: Now, what do you have to wash that awful taste out of my mouth? > > Khlav Kalesh Guy: Mountain Dew or Crab Juice. > > Homer Simpson: Blecch! Ew! Sheesh! I’ll take a crab juice. ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/315 "2017-08-17T19:16:51Z")
I think Arya knows Littlefinger is setting her up. I think she wanted him to know she was watching him to see what he would do. The way she was watching him was crude and not even close to stealthy. She was practically in the open staring at him. And they made of point of showing that he was aware of her. I think she knows the scroll was a plant, and while he thinks he’s a step ahead, it’s actually her that is ahead in this game. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/316 "2017-08-17T19:44:40Z")
I dunno, last season she was sauntering around Braavos like a tourist knowing the T-Waif000 was after her, which would have gotten her killed if she weren’t a main character. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/317 "2017-08-17T20:12:03Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > I think Arya knows Littlefinger is setting her up. I think she wanted him to know she was watching him to see what he would do. The way she was watching him was crude and not even close to stealthy. She was practically in the open staring at him. And they made of point of showing that he was aware of her. I think she knows the scroll was a plant, and while he thinks he’s a step ahead, it’s actually her that is ahead in this game. I hope you’re right. It would be absurd with all her assassin training that she is so easily detected and shadowed by Littlefinger to see what she is up to. I really am hoping the big resolution with Littlefinger and the Starks is that he will spring a trap to sow confusion and distrust, but Sansa will not only recognize it but have been maneuvering him into it and show that she has been way ahead of him for quite a while now – the student will surpass the teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/318 "2017-08-17T20:47:33Z")
I’m out of town and couldn’t watch the episode until last night and didn’t get through this thread until just now. Something I wondered about; in the scene of the maesters at the conference table, did they focus on a note (or RavenGram) one of them was holding? Any significance to that? And Dany claims to be all about letting people choose to follow her, but when Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly and their soldiers were in front of her, the choice seemed to be, “Bend the knee and swear allegiance to me or die horribly.” In short, no choice at all. And I was sorry to see Tom Hopper (Dickon) end his time on the show. I liked his character on Black Sails. He could plausibly have played a larger role on the show. (BTW, the cable company has really cool technology that lets me download shows from my DVR to my smartphone or tablet when I’m out of town and watch them offline.) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/319 "2017-08-17T20:53:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m out of town and couldn’t watch the episode until last night and didn’t get through this thread until just now. Something I wondered about; in the scene of the maesters at the conference table, did they focus on a note (or RavenGram) one of them was holding? Any significance to that? > > And Dany claims to be all about letting people choose to follow her, but when Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly and their soldiers were in front of her, the choice seemed to be, “Bend the knee and swear allegiance to me or die horribly.” In short, no choice at all. And I was sorry to see Tom Hopper (Dickon) end his time on the show. I liked his character on Black Sails. He could plausibly have played a larger role on the show. > > (BTW, the cable company has really cool technology that lets me download shows from my DVR to my smartphone or tablet when I’m out of town and watch them offline.) They are open enemies unlike say Jon Snow. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/320 "2017-08-17T20:58:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > …in the scene of the maesters at the conference table, did they focus on a note (or RavenGram) one of them was holding? Any significance to that?.. Yes, it was the note from Jon Snow warning of the coming of the White Walkers and seeking to rally the Seven Kingdoms to unite and fight them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=17)