# Game of Thrones 7.05 "Eastwatch" 8/13/17 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585 "2017-08-13T22:26:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/441 "2017-08-23T21:21:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You are just nitpicking that he didn’t physically “bend the knee” (because he couldn’t). But he did “bend the knee” in the meaningful sense by calling her “My Queen,” and thereby acknowledging he was subservient to her. > > He already has. You lose. Wrong. He hasn’t bent the knee. Saying “my Queen” isn’t bending the knee. The showrunners know their visual symbolism. They will never show Daenerys standing in state while Jon kneels before her to offer his fealty. Bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/442 "2017-08-23T21:26:17Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Wrong. He hasn’t bent the knee. Saying “my Queen” isn’t bending the knee. > > The showrunners know their visual symbolism. They will never show Daenerys standing in state while Jon kneels before her to offer his fealty. > > Bet on it. You are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/443 "2017-08-23T21:33:35Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You are wrong. If we ever see Daenerys standing before the assembled nobles and Jon kneeling before her, then I will be wrong. What we have now is Jon being practical about what’s needed to fight the WW, flavored by a bit of growing-intimacy/flirtatious role-play. ‘I am yours, my lady,’ so to speak. It was a private moment between two characters who are fated to test whether or not Daenerys really can bear a child\*. It was _not_ a public declaration of Jon being submissive to a woman. In the fullness of time we will know who is right about this. \*_another_ pregnancy, which could end in live birth, I should say. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/444 "2017-08-23T21:34:00Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Wrong. He hasn’t bent the knee. Saying “my Queen” isn’t bending the knee. He actually said “I’d bend the knee but… [I physically can’t move since I just almost died died]” This is one of those arguments that can only embarass yourself further. I wouldn’t pursue it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/445 "2017-08-23T21:35:18Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Wrong. He hasn’t bent the knee. Saying “my Queen” isn’t bending the knee. > > The showrunners know their visual symbolism. They will never show Daenerys standing in state while Jon kneels before her to offer his fealty. > > Bet on it. I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t care about this argument and I find your fascination with it tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/446 "2017-08-23T21:40:10Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Wrong. He hasn’t bent the knee. Saying “my Queen” isn’t bending the knee. It absolutely is. There’s no way that Jon goes back and renounces the fealty he just declared. > [@](#): > > Bet on it. You lost. You just don’t want to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/447 "2017-08-23T21:42:05Z")
I actually thought at first when he said “I could call you ‘my queen’” he was proposing marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/448 "2017-08-23T21:42:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t care about this argument and I find your fascination with it tiresome. If I were fascinated with it, then _I_ would have been the one to revive it. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/449 "2017-08-23T21:46:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I actually thought at first when he said “I could call you ‘my queen’” he was proposing marriage. Yeah, it was surprising when the dialogue didn’t go that way. It was certainly a personal, warm, even cozy scene (despite the fact that a dragon had just died). ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/450 "2017-08-24T04:19:16Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Speaking of which - this episode had so much easy, obvious stuff to criticize that we haven’t even touched on the subtler stuff. Why did Jon bend the knee to her? Simply because she promised to help with the White Walkers? It seems like any reasonable person would after she saw what she saw. It wasn’t conditional. He could’ve still remained King in the North and fought alongside her. > > Did coming to rescue him change his mind so much about what sort of person she was that he decided to submit his whole kingdom to her? I guess it’s plausible but meh. I think we’re supposed to feel happy about that scene because our heroes are working together but I’d rather see an independent north so it wasn’t a triumphant, heartwarming scene. I agree that that didn’t make sense, but I was probably more bothered by him suddenly calling her “Dany”. Where the hell did that come from? I don’t even remember him ever addressing her as “Daenerys”, and now he’s giving her nicknames? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=22)