# Game of Thrones 7.05 "Eastwatch" 8/13/17 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585 "2017-08-13T22:26:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/61 "2017-08-14T12:19:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Is it me, or is Arya coming across as a little… evil? She really does worship death, and she’s happy to deliver it to anyone who needs it delivered to, I guess. Her offhand comment that the unruly Northmen just be beheaded was pretty chilling, as was the way she delivered it and the way she amused by Sansa suggesting that perhaps executing their allies was not the smart move. She’s not evil… it’s just that she only has one tool in her toolbox, so every problem looks like a nail. She’s been around violence most of her formative years, and and all she has seen over and over is that the stronger person can crush the weaker person. That’s the only way she knows how to solve issues. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/62 "2017-08-14T12:32:27Z")
Since the timeline is completely unable to be followed this season, will Cersei give birth in the next two episodes? How long would it have been since Jaime left to take over Highgarden? ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/63 "2017-08-14T12:41:03Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > Since the timeline is completely unable to be followed this season, will Cersei give birth in the next two episodes? Maybe. If we’re to trust Maggy, it won’t be a live birth. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/64 "2017-08-14T12:44:12Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The maesters were also way too dismissive of a guy they knew to have been north of the wall and have first hand accounts. They didn’t even bother to dismiss him as a madman or think that he was somehow wrong, they basically just brushed first hand knowledge of what’s out there aside. Unsatisfying. That scene I think was to establish that the maesters have become a set of overly educated idiots. They aren’t particularly interested in learning anything new, or in defending the seven kingdoms (some line a few episodes back about there are always disasters coming but the Citadel survives). First hand experience never trumps book learning for these guys. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/65 "2017-08-14T12:49:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > At this point, Gilly’s little story about a wedding annulment isn’t necessary, and was just a little wink at the fans. Everyone knows who Jon Snow is now. You totally missed the point of that, and it was a **huge** reveal. Jon being a _legitimate_ Targaryen and not a _bastard_ son of a Targaryen means he is the rightful heir of the Seven Kingdoms. Although that’s not exactly going to change Dany’s mind about what she thinks is hers, that’s going to be a hard pill for her to swallow. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/66 "2017-08-14T12:51:05Z")
Eh, a bit of a muh episode, a holding pattern, definitely the weakest of the season so far. Only big reveal is that JS isn’t a bastard, the implications on Jon personally I think will be just as important as the political ramifications. Way back in season 1 he accepted that being a bastard was part of his identity, “Wear it like armour”, so it’s a facet of his character being revealed as a fraud. Speaking of bastards, Jon as king could legitimise Gendry as a Baratheon and revive a great house from extinction. Agreed that the talk of an ‘armistice’ with Cersei at this point is just ludicrous, she’s off her fucking rocker, gone off the deep end. She’d execute Jon, Dany or any envoy of theirs as traitors without a second thought no matter how many spooky scary skeletons they bring to show her. Who do we think is going to bite it of the Fellowship of Winter? My guess - all of Tormund’s wildling redshires (hopefully not Tormund himself), Beric and Thoros. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/67 "2017-08-14T13:21:33Z")
Well, only three of the original Magnificent Seven made it through. I don’t see why the Westeros version should be any different. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/68 "2017-08-14T13:22:12Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > Maybe. If we’re to trust Maggy, it won’t be a live birth. Although there’s something off about that prophecy. Maggy said Cersei would have 3 children, and the king would have 20. But when Cersei came to Bran’s room after his fall and talked with Catelyn, she talked about her firstborn son, a baby with black hair who died of a fever, so he was certainly not stillborn. How does he not count as one of her children? I always wondered if the deep implication had been that that baby had been the son of Cersei and Robert and that she already hated him so much that she killed his child in order to have her children with Jaime be the ones to succeed to the Iron Throne, but the show hasn’t revisited the issue. Or was she lying to Catelyn to form a bond with her so as to find out if Bran had been talking in his coma or to find out more about his condition? ---
**Author:** ![nofloyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nofloyd/32/2870_2.png) [@nofloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nofloyd)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/69 "2017-08-14T13:48:05Z")
“Maybe. If we’re to trust Maggy, it won’t be a live birth.” > [@shantih](#): > > she talked about her firstborn son, a baby with black hair who died of a fever, so he was certainly not stillborn … she already hated him so much that she killed his child in order to have her children with Jaime … Or was she lying to Catelyn to form a bond with her so as to find out if Bran had been talking Always wondered too at these possibilities. Could Cersei’s have told someone to ‘get rid of’ the ill? firstborn that was Robert’s and it’s Gendry all along, looks the right age. Lying to Catelyn? Possible. How was the impending birth of the firstborn of the king not realm wide news? At least to the major houses. Catelyn never knew? Find it far-fetched. This new pregnancy … - Is she really pregnant? Or has she convinced herself she is/false pregnancy - Lying to Jaime? - Is Jaime the father? - Is she so desperate with grief at loss of children she told Qyburn to “assist” since she’s a bit old for easy conception. Could this be a Qyburn franken-baby through abnormal means a la Melisandre’s magic or thinking you’re the mother of some dragon eggs. In this world with what’s been happening think we have to consider possibility of an unusual provenance for this baby until a normal one pops out. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/70 "2017-08-14T13:49:56Z")
Did anyone get around to telling Sam that his father and brother are dead? > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Euron won’t be too happy though; he might not give a damn about her sleeping with Jaimie, but this seriously messes with his plan to marry her and then seize the throne. Euron’s not long for this world anyway. I’m convinced that Cersei will have him killed (probably painfully) as soon as he’s served his purpose. She’ll never allow him to marry her. Cersei’s delusional if she thinks the people will merrily accept an openly incestuous relationship with her brother. Wasn’t the the War of the Five Kings fought over the notion that her children were bastards born of incest? And she expects to tell her subjects that their enemies were right all along? Does she plan to marry Jaime so her newest child will at least not be a bastard? Not that any of this is likely to matter by the end, of course. Awesome to finally see Littlefinger being Littlefinger again. And I don’t care if it’s pure fanservice, it’s also awesome to have Gendry back!! **#ithoughtyou’dstillberowing** ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/71 "2017-08-14T13:51:52Z")
The plot teleportation device continues to zap characters all over Westeros in a single episode, but the army of the dead hasn’t received the memo. They’re at the Fist in season 2 ep 10, at Hardhome in season 5 ep 8, and still marching towards Eastwatch here in season 7 ep 5. Now we see why the Wall has been effective all these centuries; it’s going to be spring again before these slugs ever get far enough south to fight anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/72 "2017-08-14T13:56:19Z")
Sooo…how exactly did Sam know the precise scrolls and books to yank off the shelves. We saw him zipping down the stacks just grabbing any old thing (apparently). Since we _know_ one or more of the stolen books/scrolls will be useful\* I’d have preferred them to have shown Sam pondering over which ones to take. Less running with a shopping cart, more choosing which one might be more useful. \*Chekov’s Gun: any ancient manuscript shown in act one must provide a Major Clue by act three. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/73 "2017-08-14T14:01:48Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Did anyone get around to telling Sam that his father and brother are dead? The maester at the Citadel very specifically said that he had received that information, but not delivered it to Samwell. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/74 "2017-08-14T14:10:05Z")
Can anyone tell me the value for Dany or Jon in taking a zombie to Cersei? I just can’t see what it’s going to achieve. MiM ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/75 "2017-08-14T14:13:43Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I always wondered if the deep implication had been that that baby had been the son of Cersei and Robert and that she already hated him so much that she killed his child in order to have her children with Jaime be the ones to succeed to the Iron Throne, I think she admitted to Ned later that she had smothered the baby and told Robert it was stillborn, so that appears to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/76 "2017-08-14T14:19:49Z")
> [@Made\_in\_Macau](#): > > Can anyone tell me the value for Dany or Jon in taking a zombie to Cersei? I just can’t see what it’s going to achieve. > > MiM Yeah, she’s already got a zombie in her Queens Guard, is she going to care about one more? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/77 "2017-08-14T14:21:51Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Do we know what weapons The Suicide Squad are sporting? Gendry has a hammer but it ain’t dragonestone or Valarian steel. We know Jon has Jorah’s Valarian steel sword (do you think Jorah notices it and that’s why he keeps giving Jon the stink-eye and not because of Dany? > > Anybody know what they’re all packing? Well Beric Dondarrion has a nifty sword that can light on fire. Everyone else just has regular weapons. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/78 "2017-08-14T14:24:36Z")
> [@Made\_in\_Macau](#): > > Can anyone tell me the value for Dany or Jon in taking a zombie to Cersei? I just can’t see what it’s going to achieve. > > MiM It’s not just about Cersei, it’s about getting everyone around her to recognize that by far the most imminent and most dangerous threat is the army of the dead. If everybody but Cersei (which would include Jaime and other Cersei supporters) gets to this position, than Cersei won’t be able to hold them back from supporting a war against the white walkers. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/79 "2017-08-14T14:27:54Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > We know Jon has Jorah’s Valarian steel sword (do you think Jorah notices it and that’s why he keeps giving Jon the stink-eye and not because of Dany? If Jorah has connected the dots, he knows he’s only alive because Jon sent Sam Tarly to the Citadel, so he should be grateful. The one who might want Longclaw back is Lady Lyanna Mormont, who could wreak havoc on White Walkers with it while Jon is flying around on Rhaegal. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585/80 "2017-08-14T14:30:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not just about Cersei, it’s about getting everyone around her to recognize that by far the most imminent and most dangerous threat is the army of the dead. If everybody but Cersei (which would include Jaime and other Cersei supporters) gets to this position, than Cersei won’t be able to hold them back from supporting a war against the white walkers. And the advantage for Jaime and Cersei is that maybe they end up in a better strategic position than they’re currently in fighting against three dragons and a Dothraki horde. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-05-eastwatch-8-13-17-show-discussion/793585.md?page=5)