# Game of Thrones 7.06 "Beyond The Wall" 8/20/17 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223 "2017-08-20T22:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/181 "2017-08-22T00:48:48Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > 1. Why do people equate Dany’s statement about “breaking the circle” with anything even remotely resembling democracy? There has been little if any evidence that she even knows what the word means, much less that she is in favor of the idea. Speaking only for myself, I was joking when I proposed “multiparty parliamentary democracy” as a potential outcome. Still, I think that what results from breaking the wheel is an interesting and wide-open question. > [@](#): > > 1. If the Night King is the lynchpin pet peeve: linchpin [Linchpin vs. lynchpin](http://grammarist.com/spelling/linchpin-lynchpin/) ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/182 "2017-08-22T00:51:33Z")
I guess in my mind he was one of the main antagonists. He hasn’t done dick since the battle of the bastards, and even that was just to make the battle more dramatic. I don’t see the emotional impact of a LF death anymore. Certainly not compared with the ends of Seasons 5 or 6. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/183 "2017-08-22T00:52:15Z")
I found this episode contrived and unbelievable. Both the Sansa/Arya story and the catch a zombie to show Cersei story. As many have said, the show jumped the shark (seemingly since the story lines aren’t provided anymore by Martin’s) : they reverted to the usual tropes, with the main characters doing implausible things in not credible ways, and being saved equally implausibly at the last moment from an impeding death. I note that the wights aren’t nearly as though as they were. Once “killed”, they stay dead (or are they supposed to use dragon glass weapons? It hasn’t been clearly stated…anyway, regular ones like the hammer seem to work too), they have feelings (they grunt and move when you kick them), and even some form of intelligence (they can notice the lake has frozen over again and act accordingly : for some reason, the WW didn’t think of ordering them to attack until some animated skeleton realized that he could cross). > [@nate](#): > > As I said in the episode 2 thread, it’s so frustrating to see such a great series end like this. It’s so cheesy now. THe thing I loved about the early seasons of GoT is that there was a draconian Westeros ethos that was shocking to the audience. […] Now it’s just a bunch of cliched crap where the good guys are always good and live by modern ethics… there is nothing interesting about that and it’s a shame that GoT turned out this way. That, exactly. > [@Biggirl](#): > > A million times this. There is a sharp declination between stories already told in the books and the stuff not yet written. And that. Frankly, the show writers don’t seem to be idiots. Why on earth couldn’t they keep the concepts the show accustomed us to instead of reverting to classical TV series tropes? It’s not like GRR Martin is the only man on earth able to avoid clichés when writing a story line, is it? > [@treis](#): > > I don’t know why you put in a spoiler tag, but Littlefinger dying isn’t really a significant event at this point. It is possible that he meets his end too, but that isn’t nearly big enough of a bang to match the ending of the last few seasons. Indeed. Most of the characters and arcs seem pretty irrelevant now. Bran? Samwell? Littlefinger? Frankly, even Arya seems irrelevant at this point. Why have we been following their stories for so long? One last thing : everybody agrees that everything is rushed now. Why on Earth did they shorten the seasons given how much they still have to show? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/184 "2017-08-22T00:59:19Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > One last thing : everybody agrees that everything is rushed now. Why on Earth did they shorten the seasons given how much they still have to show? Money. Money and the risk of losing key players to other projects or life changes. The leads have been doing this for quite a while now. You can only money-whip actors so far before they get all “artistic” and quit to do an off-off-off-Broadway play about a dog with Tourette’s. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/185 "2017-08-22T00:59:40Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Missed the edit window: I also wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Jon’s Super-Duper-Resurrected Targaryen sperm knocked Dany up. Think of the pathos when either of them has to make The Heroic Sacrifice knowing there’s a proto-sprog involved, and the heir to the Targaryen line at that! Dany ends up kamakazing into the Night King and Zombie Viserion in the penultimate episode, leaving Jon to rule a destroyed Westeros, all his friends dead, the throne tasting of ashes. > > Then Tyrion takes him to a whorehouse. I would be absolutely shocked if Dany doesn’t end up on top. The only genuinely open question in my mind is if they make her a tyrant. Jon could definitely end up dead in a sacrifice. Lord knows he should have died at least three times now. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/186 "2017-08-22T01:08:30Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > One last thing : everybody agrees that everything is rushed now. Why on Earth did they shorten the seasons given how much they still have to show? I think the Euron story line was a mistake. They didn’t have the time to let it develop properly. The battles he has won don’t seem to have affected the outcome of the war and he doesn’t seem to have a role anymore. Sending Arya north was also a mistake. She should have gone and dispatched Cersei. Or better yet, be captured and killed. Her story line with Sansa is ill thought out and rushed. The battle of the bastards was cool, but ultimately Jon Snow’s plot in the North ended as soon as it began. He was in Winterfell for what? Half an episode before heading off to meet Dany. They probably could have done without that as well. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/187 "2017-08-22T01:14:27Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > …Why did one wight survive after the walker was killed? That was convenient… That particular Wight was created by a different White Walker than one they destroyed. Apparently destroying a White Walker also takes out any Wights they’ve sired; which is why Jon is hoping that the same principal will work on the Night King, destroying him destroys the regular White Walkers which destroys the Wights. If he’s right Westeros’s odds of survival just went up a lot. > [@Deeg](#): > > I’m surprised that few seem to be making a big deal about the Night King now having a dragon at his disposal. Could it factor in the NK getting past the wall? It’s a bit disappointing that the NK could take down a dragon so easily. Maybe he should use his spear against Jon. I don’t think it’s occurred to anyone that Viserion could be resurrected as a Wight yet, though the possibly should be obvious to anyone familiar with the White Walkers. > [@treis](#): > > Littlefinger wants power. Yes, he has some feelings for Sansa, but power is ultimately his goal. Besides, if he wanted Sansa, he could have married her while they were in the Vale. Even if that weren’t possible, sending a woman off to marry someone that tortures and rapes her is not the way to win her heart. Well to be fear while Littlefinger knew Ramsey would forcibly rape her if she didn’t consummate the marriage willingly I think he genuinely believed she would’ve been treated a lot better than she was given how valuable she was to the Boltons. Heck Lord Bolton would’ve likely treated her better than Ramsey didn’t. Littlefinger is still a terrible person and ultimately he’s still throw Sansa under the bus if he has too; he’s just give it a lot more thought that he would than he would with anyone else. > [@DigitalC](#): > > It seemed pretty obvious that they were hinting at democracy with him praising the Night’s watch and Iron Born systems, both of which use direct votes by the members. Tyrion seems to be leaning towards some kind of elective monarchy, but Daenerys is a different story. > [@silenus](#): > > …2. Why do people equate Dany’s statement about “breaking the circle” with anything even remotely resembling democracy? There has been little if any evidence that she even knows what the word means, much less that she is in favor of the idea… I think Daenerys is leaning towards an absolute monarchy where she can be the enlightened despot and rule the whole continent directly instead of through vassals like the Lords Paramount. Elective monarchy can wait until after she’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/188 "2017-08-22T01:25:15Z")
Okay so when they see the bear for the first time, the circle up and I count 12. So one of them just got chomped a bear, right? So that means they started with 13. It’s still confusing though—why was that 13th guy so much closer to the bear? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/189 "2017-08-22T01:28:53Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > That particular Wight was created by a different White Walker than one they destroyed. Apparently destroying a White Walker also takes out any Wights they’ve sired Yeah, the point is it was way too convenient that they all happened to be made by the same WW, except for one lone wight, who they conveniently needed to capture. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > I don’t think it’s occurred to anyone that Viserion could be resurrected as a Wight yet, though the possibly should be obvious to anyone familiar with the White Walkers. It occurred to many people. We’ve been expecting an undead dragon for years. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Well to be fear while Littlefinger knew Ramsey would forcibly rape her if she didn’t consummate the marriage willingly I think he genuinely believed she would’ve been treated a lot better than she was given how valuable she was to the Boltons. Heck Lord Bolton would’ve likely treated her better than Ramsey didn’t. Littlefinger is still a terrible person and ultimately he’s still throw Sansa under the bus if he has too; he’s just give it a lot more thought that he would than he would with anyone else. Fair\*, Ramsay\*, to\* ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/190 "2017-08-22T01:52:22Z")
I dislike this episode more and more the more I think about it. It’s probably in my bottom 5. Most of the other disliked episodes were boring, I can’t remember one this damn stupid. Everything above the Wall made no sense, planning to negotiate with Cersei is stupid, the Arya/Sansa feud is stupid, the multiple deus ex machinas were stupid. The whole thing seemed like D & D said “we need to get this dragon killed, how do we get there” rather than make something that made sense. In addition it looks like the show has completely changed from a subversion of the fantasy genre to just a fantasy genre. Really really not a fan. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/191 "2017-08-22T01:57:04Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > …It occurred to many people. We’ve been expecting an undead dragon for years… I meant it doesn’t seem to have occurred to any of the _characters_ yet. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/192 "2017-08-22T02:51:46Z")
> [@jkirkman](#): > > I’m still enjoying the show. I went back to look at some scenes in seasons 1-3 a few weeks back and was surprised by how “rough” some scenes were. The actors, costuming, and “look” have really settled into a groove since the early days. > > Arya and Sansa– > > Like you, ths Sansa and Brienne scene was when I was certain that Sansa knew _exactly_ what was going on and just giving LF enough room to incriminate himself. Sansa is getting the Brienne and Pod variables out of the way for the coming storm. > > Arya knows LF is a creepy plotter–Sansa personally told her to watch out for him. But she also sees Sansa hanging out with him all the time and bouncing ideas off of him, and begins to suspect that they are plotting together to take over the north, and the found raven message just feeds this line of thought. Sansa can’t get with Arya and explain yet because she needs Arya to drive LF to think that Arya is the problem, and that Sansa is still his meal ticket, and can still be manipulated. > > Now LF thinks Arya is the problem and the opportunity, and has revealed his intentions to Sansa–but Sansa and Bran are his real problems, and I think he is going to find that out really soon. Sansa needs the Knights of the Vale, or, at the very least, that the Vale not be in open opposition to Winterfell, her, or Jon when she drops the hammer on him, so she needs some politically acceptable reasons to kill him, and needs the support of her banner-men, especially Lady Mormont (who is almost as scary as Arya). I thought it was Arya disguised as Littlefinger that suggested sending Brienne away? In this episode, Sansa discovered the faces in the bag, and it was the maester’s and Littlefinger’s faces. Littlefinger suggested sending her away and the maester received the (fake?) message that prompted Sansa to send Brienne away. Am I misinterpreting what happened? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/193 "2017-08-22T02:56:04Z")
> [@theR](#): > > In this episode, Sansa discovered the faces in the bag, and it was the maester’s and Littlefinger’s faces. I didn’t get that at all in the moment and looking at screen shots, this is not true. Predictions for next week: [ul] [li]Cersei tries to have the Mountain kill everyone at their meeting and Sandor fights him.[/li][li]The Wall comes down[/li][li]Jorah dies[/li][li]Euron dies[/li][li]Jaime kills Cersei[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/194 "2017-08-22T03:05:56Z")
> [@theR](#): > > I thought it was Arya disguised as Littlefinger that suggested sending Brienne away? In this episode, Sansa discovered the faces in the bag, and it was the maester’s and Littlefinger’s faces. Littlefinger suggested sending her away and the maester received the (fake?) message that prompted Sansa to send Brienne away. Am I misinterpreting what happened? I don’t think it’s possible to take someone’s face until they are “given to the Many-Faced God” – i.e. killed. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/195 "2017-08-22T03:36:15Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Well to be fear while Littlefinger knew Ramsey would forcibly rape her if she didn’t consummate the marriage willingly I think he genuinely believed she would’ve been treated a lot better than she was given how valuable she was to the Boltons. Heck Lord Bolton would’ve likely treated her better than Ramsey didn’t. Littlefinger is still a terrible person and ultimately he’s still throw Sansa under the bus if he has too; he’s just give it a lot more thought that he would than he would with anyone else. Sure, but even if this is all true it still proves that Littlefinger’s goal is, and always has been, power and not being with Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/196 "2017-08-22T03:40:09Z")
> [@theR](#): > > I thought it was Arya disguised as Littlefinger that suggested sending Brienne away? In this episode, Sansa discovered the faces in the bag, and it was the maester’s and Littlefinger’s faces. Littlefinger suggested sending her away and the maester received the (fake?) message that prompted Sansa to send Brienne away. Am I misinterpreting what happened? One of the faces Sansa pulled was Walder Frey, not sure who the other belonged to. That was a really odd confrontation between Arya and Sansa; Arya seemed to be hinting that she could use Sansa’s face without killing her. The whole thing just felt off. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/197 "2017-08-22T05:28:52Z")
> [@theR](#): > > I thought it was Arya disguised as Littlefinger that suggested sending Brienne away? In this episode, Sansa discovered the faces in the bag, and it was the maester’s and Littlefinger’s faces. Littlefinger suggested sending her away and the maester received the (fake?) message that prompted Sansa to send Brienne away. Am I misinterpreting what happened? Littlefinger suggested Sansa send Brienne away? I thought he suggested grooming her and getting her onto Team Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/198 "2017-08-22T08:25:16Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > One of the faces Sansa pulled was Walder Frey, not sure who the other belonged to. I’m pretty sure it was Meryn Trant. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/199 "2017-08-22T13:51:51Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Benjen did not survive, he’s one of the zombies that did not get turned because the children of the forest got to him in time. He already explained this the last time we saw him. Thanks for the reminder. I did not remember any of that, and Benjen’s reappearance was bugging me – and not just because of yet another last-minute-rescue. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/200 "2017-08-22T14:08:39Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > I don’t think it’s possible to take someone’s face until they are “given to the Many-Faced God” – i.e. killed. Jaqen took Arya’s face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223.md?page=11)