# Game of Thrones 7.06 "Beyond The Wall" 8/20/17 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223 "2017-08-20T22:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/321 "2017-08-24T17:25:14Z")
Here’s a thought: dragons do not need to fly low and do ground attacks where they might get ice speared. They can fly high-level bombing raids by clutching pails of wildfire and then releasing it to bomb the dead. Maybe that will be Cersei’s big contribution. She’ll hand over all the wildfire they have left under King’s landing, and it will change the war or something. So to deter that, the wights need fighter planes to attack the bombers. Luckily they have an undead dragon… so we will probably get some dragon aerial combat in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/322 "2017-08-24T17:33:57Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Someone upthread posted a map comparing the movements of the Night King’s army with those of Jon Snow (though I can’t find it right now). I think that map really makes it clear that the timing problems we’ve been seeing (and complaining about) really were baked into the show from the beginning. Imagine that the main arc still moved at the same pace as in the first few seasons, with journeys from place to place often nearly taking up whole seasons; and then, imagine the army of the undead, that has to take all that additional time to move those last few miles to the wall. > > So, in other words, you can’t have it both ways: either the south-of-the-wall story moves faster, or the undead move slower (at a glacial speed, you might say)—after all, both have to meet at the same points. I’m not sure how that really could have been prevented—other than introducing the threat from the White Walkers much later, or having them get to the wall much sooner, and then, lacking a ways to cross it, just kinda hanging out there. Lots of ways to do that. For example, the army of the dead could have been much smaller at the start, and it could have taken the Night’s king a long time to resurrect as many as he needed. Or, they could have established that there was a much larger population of wildlings remaining north of the wall, and we could have seen periodic battles between wildlings and the dead, and after each one we see the dead wildlings rise up and join the army of the dead. So, they could simpky have been ranging around behind the wall growing in strength and number, and the big reveal this season could have been a change in pattern, where suddenly they all start heading directly for the wall. The main army could have started marching while a thousand miles north of the wall, or not started marching towards the wall until a couple of episodes ago. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/323 "2017-08-24T17:48:02Z")
Help me out with my bad memory: is Ghost waiting at Winterfell for Jon? Did something happen to him? Do any Children of the Forest still survive, or were the last of them wiped out in the cave of the Three Eyed Raven? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/324 "2017-08-24T17:51:58Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Do any Children of the Forest still survive, or were the last of them wiped out in the cave of the Three Eyed Raven? _Presumed_ extinct. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/325 "2017-08-24T17:56:12Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Help me out with my bad memory: is Ghost waiting at Winterfell for Jon? Did something happen to him? I’ve got bad news. Did you see that [awesome coat](http://gongs.gongsters.com/9510e86148bdae949af09a389da4544b.jpg) Daenerys was wearing? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/326 "2017-08-24T17:56:37Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Help me out with my bad memory: is Ghost waiting at Winterfell for Jon? Did something happen to him? As far as we know, Ghost is still in good health and remains at Winterfell, although we haven’t seen him for some time. He’s the only direwolf still alive and with his master. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/327 "2017-08-24T18:09:46Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > I’ll posit that Jon survived hypothermia for the same reason that Dany survived the funeral pyre and that big hut at Vaes Dothrak(?). Of course, if that’s what they were going for, they probably should have depicted him afterwards as comfortable as she was coming out of the fire. That would have been cool as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/328 "2017-08-24T18:16:49Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Wouldn’t Bran have called her out on that though if this were actually the case? He might have his own reasons for playing along and pretending it’s still Arya (and maybe it still is; I’m not entirely convinced of the Waif theory). > [@witzel](#): > > Not to mention that Nymeria probably wouldn’t have been so lenient when they met up in the forest on the way to Winterfell. Nor would not-Arya have said to herself, “That’s not her.” Good point. > [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Someone upthread posted a map comparing the movements of the Night King’s army with those of Jon Snow (though I can’t find it right now)… Here you go, from post 130: [White Standers - Album on Imgur](http://imgur.com/gallery/l2aGS) ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/329 "2017-08-24T18:22:30Z")
Thanks for the refresher. Except you, **DrCube** - you’re going to hell for that one. 🙂 Back to the coming battle, _Slate_ has [some strategies](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/08/24/how_armies_not_dragons_can_win_the_war_on_game_of_thrones.html) for dealing with the army of the dead: > [@](#): > > …They could use the forests in the area to make barriers on either side of the wall. Staggered rows of V-shaped ditches, for example, with outwards-facing pikes on their inside edge, and filled with flammable material such as brush, pine pitch, tar, and wildfire, would pinch Wights into tight, flammable areas. Even if only 35,000 untrained soldiers fired at the glacial pace of two arrows a minute, a hellfire of 70,000 flaming arrows could rain down every 60 seconds. > > Retreating along such barriers, the soldiers could make the Walkers pay a terrible toll for every inch they gain. Armed with dragonglass-tipped arrows, the Dothraki could route any attempt by the Walkers or the Wights to flank the barriers… ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/330 "2017-08-24T19:13:32Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Cersei should be like holy shit, ice zombies, maybe I should change my facial expression for the first time in six year. Yeah, I forgot about this until just now, but earlier in the season when Euron said something about his love for the most beautiful woman in the world, and they cut to Cersei glaring at nothing in particular, I thought, “Geez, too bad Westeros is a pre-optometry society.” ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/331 "2017-08-24T19:19:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As far as we know, Ghost is still in good health and remains at Winterfell, although we haven’t seen him for some time. If he’s as big as Nymeria, he should be pretty hard to miss. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/332 "2017-08-24T19:21:26Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Thanks for the refresher. Except you, **DrCube** - you’re going to hell for that one. 🙂 > > Back to the coming battle, _Slate_ has [some strategies](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/08/24/how_armies_not_dragons_can_win_the_war_on_game_of_thrones.html) for dealing with the army of the dead: That seems to ignore the fact that the Wall is 300 miles long and they don’t know where the White Walkers will attack. Which is really been the point of the story of the Wall. In it’s heyday it was fully staffed and could probably have easily repealed the White Walkers. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/333 "2017-08-24T19:44:53Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As far as we know, Ghost is still in good health and remains at Winterfell, although we haven’t seen him for some time. He’s the only direwolf still alive and with his master. I don’t remember exactly which episode it was in, but didn’t Sansa recently make a snide reference to being expected to just sit around and wait for Jon to return “like Ghost”? I guess an occasional namecheck so we don’t forget about him. In the behind-the-scenes feature for the episode with Arya’s wolf, they mentioned that the special effects people hate doing the wolf scenes now that they’re huge and it’s also expensive, so that’s the real reason we don’t see him much these days. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/334 "2017-08-24T20:41:43Z")
I have an idea for the best Game of Thrones sequel ever: we need a show where The Hound, Tormund Giantsbane, Arya Stark and Brienne of Tarth go on the road fighting evil. Podrick can go along for more comedy relief. ---
**Author:** ![jkirkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@jkirkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkirkman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/335 "2017-08-24T22:58:51Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Yeah, I forgot about this until just now, but earlier in the season when Euron said something about his love for the most beautiful woman in the world, and they cut to Cersei glaring at nothing in particular, I thought, “Geez, too bad Westeros is a pre-optometry society.” In Westeros, they all stare at the eclipse without eye protection. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![jkirkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@jkirkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkirkman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/336 "2017-08-24T23:07:06Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Someone upthread posted a map comparing the movements of the Night King’s army with those of Jon Snow (though I can’t find it right now). I think that map really makes it clear that the timing problems we’ve been seeing (and complaining about) really were baked into the show from the beginning. Imagine that the main arc still moved at the same pace as in the first few seasons, with journeys from place to place often nearly taking up whole seasons; and then, imagine the army of the undead, that has to take all that additional time to move those last few miles to the wall.. Well, dragging those _enormous_ chains down from Hardhome will slow any army down. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/337 "2017-08-25T00:34:29Z")
> [@witzel](#): > > Not to mention that Nymeria probably wouldn’t have been so lenient when they met up in the forest on the way to Winterfell. Nor would not-Arya have said to herself, “That’s not her.” Yup. The waif-as-Arya thing would have been a superb twist if it had been revealed at an earlier stage. If they were to do it now, it would be horribly inconsistent with the genuine personal touches that we’ve glimpsed from psycho-Arya. No chance this theory is true now. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/338 "2017-08-25T00:41:03Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > …The Army of the Dead is really fucking boring. > > …I’m just not sure there’s a compelling way to write ten coherent hours of television about a battle with such things. It’s like writing a story about fighting a rock… Yes, very good point. > [@Rucksinator](#): > > I’ll posit that Jon survived hypothermia for the same reason that Dany survived the funeral pyre and that big hut at Vaes Dothrak(?). Of course, if that’s what they were going for, they probably should have depicted him afterwards as comfortable as she was coming out of the fire. This is a really cool idea. It would both make the story better, and make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/339 "2017-08-25T01:48:45Z")
I don’t even care so much about the distances thing. What made this episode disappointing for me was the tired "last minute save " thing. I was sick of it when Bronn saved Jaime. And now this episode did it no less than **three** times at the end: Tormumd is almost dead…saved by The Hound! Everyone is almost dead… saved by Dany! Jon Snow is almost dead…saved by Benjen! I mean, come on, what kind of lame writing is that for this show? Is the White King going to be destroyed b/c Ser Pounce jumps at him and he falls backwards onto Valerian steel b/c turns out he’s terrified of cats like Imhotep from **The Mummy**? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223/340 "2017-08-25T02:34:59Z")
I did like the parallel between Jon trying to end his war with one suicidal charge and Jaime’s similar charge a few episodes ago. Too bad they both were miraculously saved at the last instant. At least one of them should have died. Perhaps they’re setting up similar situations in the future where one of them actually succeeds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-06-beyond-the-wall-8-20-17/794223.md?page=18)