# Game of Thrones 7.07 "The Dragon and the Wolf" 8/27/17 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 27, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885 "2017-08-27T22:59:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/261 "2017-08-29T20:31:18Z")
He did save Sansa twice and kept Stannis (a religious zealot) off the throne. And killed Joffrey. I’d have been fine with Sansa turning him out on foot. No lands, no horse, no allies, walking in the snow… I suppose if he could walk to his ancestral home he’d live. And it would have left fans speculating. You know how GoT fans love mysteries. There’s probably still a couple of holdouts who think Stannis lives. - and given current events, maybe he’ll rise as a wight. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/262 "2017-08-29T20:35:36Z")
How likely is it that Cersei is truly pregnant? She would seem to be the ideal candidate for pseudocyesis, she isn’t especially stable to begin with and losing two children and another to suicide would rock anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/263 "2017-08-29T20:35:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > He’s basically the Google of omniscience. Poor analogy, he has no autocomplete! ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/264 "2017-08-29T20:48:27Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > And somehow all that was resolved off-screen and Littlefinger was disposed off in a few minutes of screen time. It was completely out of proportion to both the importance of the character and the events of the season. It was resolved on screen, during the scene when Littlefinger told Sansa about his little game and how he likes to assume the worst, Sansa was looking away from him while thinking. Littlefinger if you pay attention to his expression was obviously enjoying the fact that he was playing her and she was going along with his game. It was at the end when Littlefinger said that Arya wanted to be the lady of Winterfell that you see Sansa’s expression change she realizes that point it’s not Arya she has to worry about its little finger. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/265 "2017-08-29T21:06:44Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > It was resolved on screen, during the scene when Littlefinger told Sansa about his little game and how he likes to assume the worst, Sansa was looking away from him while thinking. Littlefinger if you pay attention to his expression was obviously enjoying the fact that he was playing her and she was going along with his game. It was at the end when Littlefinger said that Arya wanted to be the lady of Winterfell that you see Sansa’s expression change she realizes that point it’s not Arya she has to worry about its little finger. In my opinion there was nothing to resolve in the first place, the whole thing was a set up. The second you saw Bran sitting there when Arya was brought in you should have known Littlefinger was fucked. You can’t “outsmart” the guy who can see anything he wants. When did you think Bran told Sansa and Arya what happened to their dad? right before that hearing? I seriously doubt that. They knew the whole time that Littlefinger had to die and played along until they were sure it wasn’t going to cost them the Vale. The show focused on Sansa and Arya because if they had focused on Bran even a little bit everyone would have known Littlefinger never had a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/266 "2017-08-29T21:08:26Z")
Remind me when Bran and Sam met each other before the season finale? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The wight that ran at Cersei seemed pretty energetic… You’d be ready to stretch your legs, too, if you’d been cooped up in a shipping crate all the way from Eastwatch. > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > …[Brienne] could tell him about the time she almost got eaten by a bear. He will be very excited until he learns that she is not being euphemistic but was almost devoured… I laughed. > [@Folacin](#): > > …I think the fanwank answer is that a Faceless Man is so fast that no blood got on the blade… A girl has been trained to be quite swift. > [@AK84](#): > > Incidentally about a year ago a poster on Reddit posted these spoilers. Universally panned. Until the season began, [when it was shown to be more and more accurate.](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/57g8yf/compilation_of_spoilers_by_awayforthelads/) Wow. Glad I hadn’t read that before. _Somebody_ had a pal on the inside at HBO. > [@theR](#): > > I think the way Cersei now dresses as queen is definitely reminiscent of the Night King. I wonder if it is foreshadowing that we could see her (and her ominous Queensguards) either voluntarily or involuntarily joining the Night King, perhaps at the urging of Qyburn. He still has some role to play since he has been hanging around onscreen without doing much recently. Hmm. Interesting. You may be right. > [@adaher](#): > > From what Vox has reported about the coming books vs. the TV series… Remember, there are no books in this thread. > [@G0sp3l](#): > > How likely is it that Cersei is truly pregnant? She would seem to be the ideal candidate for pseudocyesis, she isn’t especially stable to begin with and losing two children and another to suicide would rock anyone. Also interesting. IIRC Queen Mary of England (“Bloody Mary” to her foes) died of the tumor that she thought was her long-desired child. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/267 "2017-08-29T21:20:19Z")
Sam and Bran met in season 3 at the nightfort when Bran was headed north of the Wall ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/268 "2017-08-29T21:26:39Z")
My wife noticed something that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere. The ice dragon’s wings are full of holes, giving it a lacy effect. I don’t know when or how they got there, but they’ll be important. Sometime next season the various dragons will be fighting one another and the wings will be an instant tell who is who up in the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/269 "2017-08-29T22:03:19Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I thought Littlefinger’s ending was far too mediocre for such a great character. Hey, Kenard shot Omar. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/270 "2017-08-29T22:06:14Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Remind me when Bran and Sam met each other before the season finale? Yeah, Bran and Gilly were crossing south, Bran & Co. were crossing north. They share the tale of the Rat Cook, which comes up again in Walder Frey’s comeuppance. > [@](#): > > I laughed. I hoped it wasn’t unbearable. (Must… cancel out… small victory… with… atrocious pun). > [@](#): > > Hmm. Interesting. You may be right. I predict a more mundane ending for her, but interesting note. > [@](#): > > Also interesting. IIRC Queen Mary of England (“Bloody Mary” to her foes) died of the tumor that she thought was her long-desired child. Who really wasn’t that bloody compared to her competition, but the victors write the history, just like we’ve seen with Rhaegar the rapist, Daenerys the foreign invader, et al. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > My wife noticed something that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere. > > The ice dragon’s wings are full of holes, giving it a lacy effect. I don’t know when or how they got there, but they’ll be important. Sometime next season the various dragons will be fighting one another and the wings will be an instant tell who is who up in the sky. I assumed it was just standard “dracolich” artistic license. No way it would’ve rotted that fast, especially in the snow. But yes, will be helpful as I’ve so far had a problem telling the two lesser dragons apart. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/271 "2017-08-29T22:09:50Z")
Question: Did Robert Baratheon know at any point that the supposed kidnap/rape story was a lie? In S1 he stands at her statute and admits he doesn’t even remember what she looked like anymore, but that could simply be the passage of time, not an admission that theirs was not true love. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/272 "2017-08-29T22:10:02Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > My wife noticed something that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere. > > The ice dragon’s wings are full of holes, giving it a lacy effect. I don’t know when or how they got there, but they’ll be important. Sometime next season the various dragons will be fighting one another and the wings will be an instant tell who is who up in the sky. Yep. It also puts to rest any aerodynamic theory of dragon flight. Every time I’ve seen one take off this season, and there’s a person near the dragon’s feet (there always is), I think “That would be like seven Hurricaine Katrinas plus a Saturn V rocket blasting off from your forehead, and Dany or Tyrion or whoever is walking through it like it’s a light summer breeze without even mussing up their hair”. The wings are for show. They don’t fly by pushing air down like real creatures do. So it doesn’t matter how many holes their wings have. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/273 "2017-08-29T22:10:56Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > No way it would’ve rotted that fast, especially in the snow. But yes, will be helpful as I’ve so far had a problem telling the two lesser dragons apart. Could have frozen, and then cracked while being flexed. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/274 "2017-08-29T22:21:27Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Yep. It also puts to rest any aerodynamic theory of dragon flight. Every time I’ve seen one take off this season, and there’s a person near the dragon’s feet (there always is), I think “That would be like seven Hurricaine Katrinas plus a Saturn V rocket blasting off from your forehead, and Dany or Tyrion or whoever is walking through it like it’s a light summer breeze without even mussing up their hair”. > > The wings are for show. They don’t fly by pushing air down like real creatures do. So it doesn’t matter how many holes their wings have. And landbound wights are not handicapped by lack of muscle - or come to that, general physical integrity, cardiovascular system, etc. If neither “live” dragons nor non-dragon wights are constrained by realistic physics, it would seem odd for a wight dragon to be so constrained. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/275 "2017-08-29T22:21:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Question: Did Robert Baratheon know at any point that the supposed kidnap/rape story was a lie? > > In S1 he stands at her statute and admits he doesn’t even remember what she looked like anymore, but that could simply be the passage of time, not an admission that theirs was not true love. I don’t think there’s any indication he knows. The first thing he wants to do when he gets to Winterfell is go to her crypt and pay his respects. Also from Episode 2: > [@](#): > > Robert Baratheon: Oh, it’s unspeakable to you? What her father did to your family… That was unspeakable. What Rhaegar Targaryen did to your sister… the woman I loved. I’ll kill every Targaryen I get my hands on. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/276 "2017-08-29T22:24:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Question: Did Robert Baratheon know at any point that the supposed kidnap/rape story was a lie? > > In S1 he stands at her statute and admits he doesn’t even remember what she looked like anymore, but that could simply be the passage of time, not an admission that theirs was not true love. No. At least there’s no indication that he knew, and if he did know it was consensual one would think it would temper his anger towards the Targaryens. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/277 "2017-08-29T22:31:23Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Bran doesn’t seem to just “know” everything. He has to specifically look. As for events currently happening, he seems to only know them if he wargs into the ravens to see. But if he can see the past, and an event is in the past as soon as it happens, why shouldn’t he be able to see the present on a ten-second delay? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/278 "2017-08-29T22:56:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Could have frozen, and then cracked while being flexed. No matter how it happened, I’m smiling at the thought of the Night’s King trying some aerial maneuver during a [del]dog-[/del]dragon fight and losing an aileron. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/279 "2017-08-29T23:07:32Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > But if he can see the past, and an event is in the past as soon as it happens, why shouldn’t he be able to see the present on a ten-second delay? Bran: Now. You’re looking at now, sir. Everything that happens now, is happening now. Sam: What happened to then? Bran: We passed then. Sam: When? Bran: Just now. We’re at now now. Sam: Go back to then. Bran: When? Sam: Now. Bran: Now? Sam: Now. Bran: I can’t. Sam: Why? Bran: We missed it. Sam: When? Bran: Just now. Sam: When will then be now? Bran: Soon. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885/280 "2017-08-29T23:31:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > A better question is why Littlefinger didn’t arrange to murder Bran the instant Bran said to him, “Chaos is a Ladder”. That should have made Bran enemy #1 - not Arya. I don’t think it was at all that clear to Littlefinger. They had one interaction. Bran said “Chaos is a ladder” to him, which is a direct quote from like season 2 or 3. But it’s a short quote. Bran didn’t claim Three Eyed Raven in this conversation, or make any claims of greenseer at all. So here’s what Littlefinger must have been considering. A) Did Bran just happen to parrot something I said? B) Is that even what I said, christ, it was years ago and I don’t have the DVD box set to go back and check the transcript. C) Did I say that any other time when Bran or someone he knows was around? Probably, I do like making cryptic speeches, I probably said that a few times that just weren’t on the DVD box set I keep hearing about. D) So play the game, worst case is that Bran is psychic. But if he were psychic and knew everything I’ve done, I’d already be dead. Also I don’t really believe in psychics. It clearly rattled him, but from his perspective, there’s really no reason to leap from that one-liner to “Bran is an all-knowing all-seeing demigod now”. That level of paranoia is beyond even Littlefinger, because if you ever make that assumption, you essentially have to quit scheming. If that’s what you’re faced with, there’s nothing you can do from here on out, and you’re already fucked. So you may as well keep playing the game as best you can. And as for arranging his murder, well, let me paraphrase Lucius in The Dark Knight. “Let me get this straight. You are saying that Brandon Stark, brother of your sworn liege and one of the most powerful people in the North, is secretly a psychic that knows everything you’ve ever done and ever will do, with only his mind? And now your plan is to assassinate him? …good luck.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-7-07-the-dragon-and-the-wolf-8-27-17/794885.md?page=15)