# Game of Thrones 8.02 "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" 4/21/19 \[SHOW ONLY\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867 "2019-04-21T23:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/521 "2019-04-27T03:15:33Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Sam also called it obsidian when they discovered the stash at the Fist of the First Men. Then it’s indeed stupid. During the last episode, I assumed that it was some imaginary and strange substance that looks like glass but is worked like metal. ETA : although when I think of it : even though the place where they make weapons looks like a forge, do we see anybody actually forging Dragonglass or is it just us viewers baseless assumption that they did? Is there in fact any indication that they aren’t making weapons by knapping the obsidian? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/522 "2019-04-27T03:21:02Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Well, but I’m not really interested in something that HBO will dream up for a prequel. > > I was expecting that these were important elements of the overall story as imagined by Martin and necessary for the planed outcome of the series. To take stupid examples, the night king turns out to be the good guy saving the day from the evil queen Daenerys manipulated by the cultist of the lord of light, and it is revealed at the very end that Arya acted as an unknowing tool of the Faceless Men for some astonishing grand plan they had. I’m with you. There is so much left unresolved. I do not know why they decided to end it on season 8 when it definitely could have used another season (at least) to easily resolve a lot of these loose ends. I’ll wait for final judgement though till the season is over. No way they tie up everything but we’ll have to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/523 "2019-04-27T03:25:44Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Then it’s indeed stupid. During the last episode, I assumed that it was some imaginary and strange substance that looks like glass but is worked like metal. > ETA : although when I think of it : even though the place where they make weapons looks like a forge, do we see anybody actually forging Dragonglass or is it just us viewers baseless assumption that they did? Is there in fact any indication that they aren’t making weapons by knapping the obsidian? At a minimum the arrowheads are poured, no knapped. The hammering in this scene could very well be steel. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/524 "2019-04-27T03:29:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It is supposed to be obsidian. The fact that they are forging it like steel is probably because someone thought it was cooler than knapping it like flint. I think the show has suffered the more it has departed from the books. I do not know how much influence GRRM has over things but I suspect very little (writers rarely, if ever, get that kind of control). Still, I imagine he wanted some ground rules that they agreed to…at least in principle if not actually a contractual agreement. GRRM almost never had throwaway lines or bullshit filler and things had to make sense (as far as the world they were in so dragons are ok). As the show wears on we see more and more writing…shortcuts. Like the cavalry saving the day at the last possible moment in the Battle of the Bastards. Such a _Deus Ex Machina_ solution would never fly with GRRM. So, need Dragonglass weapons? We’ll just melt it into whatever shape we want because viewers have no idea what properties Dragonglass has right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/525 "2019-04-27T03:32:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > …it definitely could have used another season (at least) to easily resolve a lot of these loose ends. It seems GoT would need 13 seasons to be truly complete: [‘Game of Thrones’ Would Need 13 Seasons to Stay Faithful to ASOIAF Books, George R.R. Martin Says](https://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-george-rr-martin-song-ice-fire-asoiaf-1396972) If it was such a popular series for HBO I do not know why they decided it had to end now. Maybe the cast wanted to move on or something. I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/526 "2019-04-27T03:58:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It is supposed to be obsidian. The fact that they are forging it like steel is probably because someone thought it was cooler than knapping it like flint. OR because they needed to simulate a production line producing thousands of them in just a few weeks. The mold that Gendry was using turned out blades that were shaped as if the mold were created from a knapped flint. Knapping takes enormous time though, no way could they do this many weapons if they used that method. ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/527 "2019-04-27T06:10:51Z")
> [@robby](#): > > By the way, is anyone else surprised at how weapons are being made from dragonglass in the show? > > I always assumed “dragonglass” was obsidian (i.e. a volcanic glass). However, in the show, Gendry seems to be making weapons out of like it was a metal (i.e. hammering it like iron or steel). Or perhaps, in the GoT world, what they call ‘obsidian’ has different properties to our obsidian, much like GoT ‘potatoes’ ;). OB ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/528 "2019-04-27T08:09:45Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Yes, this statement disappointed me greatly. I expected during the whole series that there would be much more about the night king and his host of dead people than “he wants to extinguish all life”. I expected some surprising reveal about the nature of the night king and the wight army. I thought the back story we got on the Night King was just about perfect. He’s a symbol for hubris, meddling with forces beyond our control; the Children created a weapon that turned against them. This is something closer to a force of nature than a person with motives and goals, more like an atom bomb than an enemy general. It’s darkness and winter spreading across the land, an uncontrollable force called upon recklessly. Climate change doesn’t have motives, atom bombs don’t have motives, pandemics don’t have motives. It’s a simple, but effective symbol. Giving him comprehensibly (and perhaps, even sensible) human motivation would cheapen that, effectively making him just another player in the game of thrones. (Of course, now that I’ve written that, odds are there’s an episode coming up centering on the Night King, how he became what he is, his struggles and goals, how he seeks revenge for the wrong done to him, and so on…) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/529 "2019-04-27T08:11:18Z")
Watched the episode again. I feel like if the Night King was at Winterfell, they’d have ended with a shot of him. But they didn’t - it’s a line of white walkers. Some sort of feint or ploy does seem very possible. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/530 "2019-04-27T08:13:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think the show has suffered the more it has departed from the books. **Moderating** You have been told several times that the books do not exist in this thread. The next time you compare the show to the books, or mention or allude to the books in any fashion, in this or any future thread, I will issue a warning. Knock it off. If you want to talk about the books, go to the other thread. Colibri Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/531 "2019-04-27T16:07:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Given that they can’t swim, I wonder how they plan on getting to Essos. They managed somehow to wrap chains around Viserion so he could be dragged from the bottom of the lake; I can’t envision any way for them to do that other than walking across the bottom. So why can’t they just walk to Essos across the bottom of the Narrow Sea? I mean, [it’s not like such a thing is without precedent](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjJuZCECRu4) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/532 "2019-04-27T16:12:12Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > They managed somehow to wrap chains around Viserion so he could be dragged from the bottom of the lake; I can’t envision any way for them to do that other than walking across the bottom. So why can’t they just walk to Essos across the bottom of the Narrow Sea? Have you ever spent a few hours in a pool without getting out? I imagine undead would get pretty squishy, pretty fast. It is one thing to walk a hundred yards underwater. It is another to cross a few hundred miles at great depth I would think. Not to mention fish nibbling on them as they went. That said I do not really know what the rules are for this. Maybe they can cross an ocean by walking on the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/533 "2019-04-27T19:37:49Z")
We’ve seen animated skeletons, so the wights don’t need any flesh at all. No worries about saltwater or fishies stripping it away. I imagine the real problem with walking along the ocean floor would be navigation, particularly dealing with currents. (Are there currents on the bottom of the ocean, or is that just the top?) Also sudden dropoffs into a deep trench. In the end, it truly doesn’t matter if the dead can swim or not. There’s no reason the Night King can’t corral them onto boats. They’d need to find boats first, but logistically, once found, they should be able to sail. The undead at Hardhome displayed an abundunce of agility; rigging sails should be a piece of cake. Actually, they’re dead. They don’t need boats or sails or rigging or anything. Cut down a large tree, drag that tree into the ocean, and let 100 wights cling to it as you travel the waters. 1000 trees and your army is on the move. Surely if they can dive off a cliff and then jump up to fight, they can hold onto a branch with their hands and paddle with their legs. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/534 "2019-04-27T20:13:44Z")
And if skeletons can animate without tendons holding everything together, then NK can just have them point their toes at a 45° angle and rotate the legs like a prop. A 50-wightpower outboard should get them to Essos in no time! ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/535 "2019-04-27T20:43:04Z")
I just rewatched the episode with my wife because she fell asleep the first time. When we got to the scene when Brienne was knighted by Jaime, the camera lingered for a moment on the sword in Jaime’s hand. It’s a sign of how gun-shy the audience has become when my wife exclaimed, “Is he going to kill her?” :eek: (Which actually annoyed me a bit. The casual watcher of the show, like my wife, apparently thinks that the point of the show is to simply randomly kill off characters, as opposed to characters dying or being killed as a natural consequence of the plot.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/536 "2019-04-27T21:30:53Z")
> [@robby](#): > > (Which actually annoyed me a bit. The casual watcher of the show, like my wife, apparently thinks that the point of the show is to simply randomly kill off characters, as opposed to characters dying or being killed as a natural consequence of the plot.) Yeah. Just because the show played with conventions by surprisingly killing off major characters like Ned and Robb doesn’t mean literally anything can happen. In retrospect, you can see that those events, even if shocking, had been set up in previous episodes and had motivations. In fact, by and large the plot does follow standard dramatic conventions. If they’ve spent a lot of time previously establishing things like Jon’s Targaryen ancestry, Arya’s Faceless Man training, or Melisandre’s fire magic abilities, they are not going to throw that away without some kind of payoff in the endgame. That wouldn’t be defying conventions, that would just be dramatically stupid and unsatisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/537 "2019-04-28T02:17:51Z")
If there’s anything I don’t want this final season to be, it’s dramatically stupid and unsatisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/538 "2019-04-28T03:37:07Z")
[This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=874682) was started partly in jest, but it turned up some interesting details regarding the effectiveness of White Walker armor versus dragonglass and Valyrian steel. That could come into play tomorrow night. > [@Why does the Night King wear boots and a jacket?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-night-king-wear-boots-and-a-jacket/833140/9): > > I’m thinking the armor protects against dragonglass weapons, but Valyrian steel cuts through it like butter. Not all armor, obviously, but that rickety mesh thing they wear? Sure. > > This would work with your timeline, if the armor was a response to being killed by a dragonglass dagger. > [@Why does the Night King wear boots and a jacket?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-night-king-wear-boots-and-a-jacket/833140/12): > > Actually, this does seem to be the case. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lmnEbJyM8A) is a compilation of all White Walker deaths. The fight in the Cave of the Three-eyed Raven starts at 4:20. The Children of the Forest are able to kill some wights with what must be dragonglass-tipped weapons. But when one tries to spear a White Walker with one, the armor stops it and he kills her. Then Meera picks up what is the same or a similar weapon and manages to spear him in the throat where the armor doesn’t protect him and he explodes. So the armor protects against normal weapons and dragonglass but not Valyrian steel. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/539 "2019-04-28T04:14:56Z")
So, as a followup, anyone with a dragonglass weapon can take out a wight. But barring a lucky shot, only those with Valyrian steel weapons can take out a White Walker. To review, going into tomorrow’s battle, the following people have Valyrian steel weapons. I think most will be used to take out one or more White Walkers and their subject wights. Jon: Longclaw, of House Mormont, given to him by Jeor Mormont Brienne: Oathkeeper, forged from House Stark’s Ice, and given to her by Jaime Jaime: Widow’s Wail, also forged from Ice, and previously held by Joffrey Jorah: Heartsbane, of House Tarly, given to him by Sam Arya: unnamed dagger, previously owned by Littlefinger, and used in the attempted assassination of Bran. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867/540 "2019-04-28T16:31:46Z")
Didn’t Samwell Tarly kill a White Walker with a dragonglass blade earlier in the show? Edited to add, so dragonglass arrowheads would be effective against White Walkers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-02-a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-4-21-19-show-only/832867.md?page=28)