# Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190 "2019-04-28T20:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/201 "2019-04-29T16:05:08Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > So did Arya even use her detachable-head spear at all? Or is that for a future battle? Or was it just a Macguffin to get some Arya-Gendry sexy time last episode? The head didn’t detach, but the staff was uncoupled once into two small spears. The weapon doesn’t much resemble the drawing she gave Gendry, but I assume that was intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/202 "2019-04-29T16:06:20Z")
I enjoyed individual bits of it, but overall was disappointed. And it was so damn dark, and there were so many quick cuts - don’t they know how much most fans hate battles filmed like that? > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > …The “Im being overwhelmed and then saved at the last second trope” (Or, Thor arrives In Wakanda-IW spoiler not Endgame) was definitely overused. Also in \*LOTR \*with the destruction of the One Ring and Sauron’s death just as Aragorn and his army are being overrun. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Only one question. > > Where the hell did Arya drop from? I wondered that, too. I thought maybe she was hiding in the weirwood tree’s branches, but that was in front of the NK and she clearly came from behind. > [@Biggirl](#): > > …Read elsewh[e]re-- Bran to Arya: Still only counts as one! LOL. > [@DrCube](#): > > …I didn’t expect what happened either, though. I was expecting a “battle of wits” moment like in Princess Bride. Bran would use his three eyed raven powers to, I don’t know, trick the NK somehow… Yeah, very disappointing just how little Bran did other than be bait and buck up Theon at the end. > [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t think she killed herself, she just died from overextending. Or because it was her time. I presumed she was exhausted from lighting up the Dothraki swords and the fire barrier. Maybe she used up all her magic and was just spent. The NK and his undead horde were defeated and she thought her time had come. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Arya’s ninja move, dropping the knife to her other hand, then stabbing the Night King, made it all worthwhile… Yeah, I’ll give 'em that. Pretty cool move. “A girl has game.” ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/203 "2019-04-29T16:07:49Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It was the spear she was using to kick ass at first. Though the design notes made it look detachable I guess it was just showing a dragon glass head inserted into a wooden spear. Right, there was an entire scene/sequence where she used quite effectively. At one point she lost the entire thing and grabbed the end and detached the spearhead to us as a knife. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/204 "2019-04-29T16:08:53Z")
What was the grand plan, leave Bran with only Theon and a handful of people to protect him, and then what? Of course Theon was going to die. Why is Bran so useless? Why was there no plan whatsoever? Arya was a good twist but that was completely unplanned, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/205 "2019-04-29T16:08:57Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It was the spear she was using to kick ass at first. Though the design notes made it look detachable I guess it was just showing a dragon glass head inserted into a wooden spear. I’d swear there was a shot where Arya stabbed a wight with the staff and detached the stabbing end so she could keep using the (now one-headed) weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/206 "2019-04-29T16:10:20Z")
I believe the spear broke after she dispatched a few bad guys and she was left holding only the tip with a short handle. Way to go, Gendry, great smiting! ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/207 "2019-04-29T16:13:46Z")
I’m glad the Night King story is over. t was a cool concept but basically a force of nature more than a character. The human drama was always much more interesting. Dany is in quite a spot. Most if not all the Doraki are dead. Most of the Unsullied are Dead. The North hates her. She has nothing left to win with but her dragons (which admittedly is a big poker chip). If she really wants to help make Westeros better at this point maybe her best move is to lean into the news about Jon and let him take the Throne with her as his Queen and they can jointly rule. Not ideal but would keep the North on board. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/208 "2019-04-29T16:14:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > When Dany blasted the Night King with a _long_ shot of dragonfire, he seemed unaffected and was just standing there, I think smiling, when the fire and smoke cleared. Was that what was expected or was the intention that he has the same invulnerability that she does to fire? Perhaps he’s a Targaryen? On the other hand, I really doubt we’re going to revisit anything to do with the Night King or the Children of the Forest. _I_ thought it would work because I thought dragonfire had created dragonglass…but then i thought about it and i guess theres no history of dragons or Targaryans being involved with battles with White Walkers. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/209 "2019-04-29T16:16:56Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > What was the grand plan, leave Bran with only Theon and a handful of people to protect him, and then what? Of course Theon was going to die. Why is Bran so useless? Why was there no plan whatsoever? Arya was a good twist but that was completely unplanned, apparently. Seemed to be wait til NK is in the open and sweep in with a dragon. At one point Jon was even sitting on a wall with one…like the Night King cant see that giant dragon sitting there, if he was vulnerable to dragonfire. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/210 "2019-04-29T16:19:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I get people’s disappointment, but I don’t think the books are going to be any better, even assuming Martin ever actually writes them. > [@Athena](#): > > It occurred to me last week that maybe, just maybe, the whole “GRRM doesn’t finish the books before the show ends” was on purpose. It definitely would have cut into the excitement of these last few episodes if a significant number of the viewers knew the ending, right? I could totally see there being an agreement that he’d not finish the series, at least not until the show is over. > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Martin gave up on the books and turned it over to the TV people. So what you get is a TV show. Why should anyone expect different? [Moderating] Once again, if you want to talk about books, even imaginary books, please keep it to the book thread. Colibri ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/211 "2019-04-29T16:20:26Z")
> **[A Theory About Why Last Night's Game of Thrones Was Too Dark to Watch](https://gizmodo.com/a-theory-about-why-last-nights-game-of-thrones-was-too-1834379081)** > > Last night’s Game of Thrones supposedly showcased the largest battle ever shot for TV. I say supposedly because I couldn’t see most of the action—nor could a lot of other people, who complained all over Twitter that the episode was too dark. > [@](#): > > Last night’s Game of Thrones supposedly showcased the largest battle ever shot for TV. I say supposedly because I couldn’t see most of the action—nor could a lot of other people, who complained all over Twitter that the episode was too dark. > . > . > . > The makers of Game of Thrones almost certainly blew it here. They did not take into account two big factors. First, that people would watch streams which could downgrade thanks to the demands on the servers of HBO and other services, and second, that people would watch the episode on uncalibrated displays in rooms that weren’t lit like a movie house. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/212 "2019-04-29T16:20:31Z")
I think there were two major problems with the episode, one of which is forgivable but the other isn’t. One, the tactics sucked but then the tactics always suck, so…whatever. But worse, the story contradicted itself. The entire Dothraki force was wiped out in seconds. The formed-up phalanxes of the Unsullied were ground up to nothing in a matter of minutes. But apparently 3 hero characters can hold out indefinitely. What? The? Fuck? The regular units needed to be way more effective, and the named characters needed to be way more vulnerable. My re-write, using the same basic script: 1. You don’t fight in front of your fixed defenses. That’s stupid stupid stupid, and the whole point of having a castle is that a man on the walls is worth 10 outside (do you hear that, Ramsay?) However, maybe there’s not enough room to fit all the Unsullied inside, and the Dothraki would be completely wasted, so you establish these reasons for fighting outside in the strategy meeting in episode 2. However, you don’t form up with the Dothraki in front, siege engines next, then Unsullied, then the trench. WTF? Dothraki should be in reserve off to the south of the castle out of the path of the dead entirely. Then the trench (always fight behind your fixed defenses, not in front), then the Unsullied, then the siege engines just below the walls. 2. Now the dead roll up, swarm the trench in places, the Unsullied mostly hold at least to start. In places their formation gets overwhelmed, and Brienne’s northern infantry in reserve surges into these spots. The trebuchets launch flaming projectile after flaming projectile, not just one volley before being overrun. Archers on the walls fire volley after volley. Dragon strafing runs. The Dothraki charge in on the flanks in wedge formations relieving pressure here and there, but it isn’t enough. Things get worse and worse. Slowly (!) the lines begin to collapse, and the dead reach the walls in a few places. Things are getting desperate. 3. Bran wargs into the ravens, but instead of doing nothing he flies down to some of the Dothraki (or maybe some similarly positioned Westerosi cavalry, there are still a bunch of knights from the Vale around) and points them at the line of white walkers at the rear. The cavalry charges, some of the white walkers fall. Large groups of wights collapse, lines steady, tired troops cheer. 4. Night king shows up on dragon, destroys the cavalry attacking the white walkers. They do a mass raising of new wights. Remaining troops retreat into castle to man walls in face of seemingly overwhelming threat. Wights do not swarm walls very effectively. Things look grim, but the castle is an effective defense. Night king’s dragon breaches the wall, desperate defense in the courtyard. Defensive troops mostly hold but slowly die to the unending numbers of wights. White walkers occasionally shown raising new wights. At some point here the dead in the crypts can be raised. 5. Dragons fight, ending with a couple of them crashing into the wall around the Godswood and breaching it. Wights stream in, Ironborn defend, but are overwhelmed. Night king shows up with white walkers. Ending plays much the same, but with at least one scene establishing that Arya is heading to the Godswood, preferably with some reference to how Bran used to climb his way everywhere so that the final jump at the Night King is a little less out of the blue. At no point should we see Jaime, Brienne, and Pod fighting desperately all alone against overwhelming numbers of wights, and then 10 minutes later see them in the same situation but still alive. If their units are wiped out, they’re wiped out with them. We should end with a lot more unnamed soldiers alive, and 2 or 3 more big names snuffed out, preferably at least one of whom everyone thought would live because of unfinished business. The Hound, maybe, or Jaime, or even Sansa or Tyrion. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/213 "2019-04-29T16:21:50Z")
Why did Arya and the Red Witch look at each other so meaningfully when RW first arrived at Winterfell? Remind me of their past dealings, please. Could the NK re-raise wights who’d just been killed (again) in the battle? Or could he only raise the freshly-dead defenders of Winterfell? Just dumb for the Dothraki to go charging off into the dark. Scouting, or some kind of illumination of what lay ahead of them, would’ve been smart. On the other hand, anyone worried that the Dothraki would be a problem for Dany, burning, raping and pillaging their way across Westeros, can now breathe a sigh of relief. Glad Jorah died defending his beloved Khaleesi. > [@dasmoocher](#): > > …The showrunners also said Arya stabbed the NK in the same location where the Children of the Forest stabbed him with dragonglass to create him, using the Valryian steel to uncreate him. A nice completion of the circle, but I thought the Children stabbed him in the upper chest and Arya stabbed him in the lower gut. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > …I thought we’d get a cool scene of someone we know being a part of the army of the dead… Yes! That, to me, was the biggest missed opportunity of this episode - showing Tormund having to kill an undead Brienne, or Ser Jorah an undead Lady Lyanna, or Sam an undead Edd, or even Jon an undead direwolf Ghost, would’ve been powerful stuff. > [@Biggirl](#): > > If Tormund is among the living then everyone in the room when Tyrion said, “I think we’ll live” actually lived. Now _there’s_ a subverted trope for you! > [@AK84](#): > > Anyone else thbought for a second that Theon was going to get up and charge the Night King again? Yes, or at least jab him as he walked by. > [@MeanJoe](#): > > …I do suspect we will see one or two twists or at the least some satisfying ends to certain character’s story - Mountain vs. The Hound anyone? Yes, please! Gotta have a CleganeBowl before it all wraps up. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/214 "2019-04-29T16:24:35Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A nice completion of the circle, but I thought the Children stabbed him in the upper chest and Arya stabbed him in the lower gut. I assume what is meant is that he was turned into the Night King at that tree, not that she stabbed him at the same point in his body. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/215 "2019-04-29T16:24:51Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > Why is Bran so useless? I am hoping Jamie throws him out a window again with the full support of Winterfell this time. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/216 "2019-04-29T16:26:03Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I don’t think the Iron islands sent people did they? If not they could be in the next battle. Theon had most of his crew with him to defend Bran, and they were all killed before he was. Yara went back to the Iron Islands with three ships, and maybe just enough crew to man them. It’s a bit of a mystery how she plans to take the Iron Islands with such a small force, especially since most of the remaining Ironborn gave their allegiance to Euron. Also, she’s now on the exact opposite side of the continent from where the next battles are likely to take place. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/217 "2019-04-29T16:30:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I assume what is meant is that he was turned into the Night King at that tree, not that she stabbed him at the same point in his body. No, it was a different tree. The landscape around the tree where the Night King was created was hilly, and the tree was surrounded by menhirs in a spiral pattern. They meant she stabbed him at the point the Children had stabbed him. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/218 "2019-04-29T16:30:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Theon had most of his crew with him to defend Bran, and they were all killed before he was. Yara went back to the Iron Islands with three ships, and maybe just enough crew to man them. > > It’s a bit of a mystery how she plans to take the Iron Islands with such a small force, especially since most of the remaining Ironborn gave their allegiance to Euron. Also, she’s now on the exact opposite side of the continent from where the next battles are likely to take place. 1. Most of the Ironborn are on the opposite side of the continent. 2. Last season completely did away with the idea that logistics or travel times matter. If the writers want to see Yara in King’s Landing she’ll be there. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/219 "2019-04-29T16:37:22Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Why did Arya and the Red Witch look at each other so meaningfully when RW first arrived at Winterfell? Remind me of their past dealings, please. > > Could the NK re-raise wights who’d just been killed (again) in the battle? Or could he only raise the freshly-dead defenders of Winterfell? > > Just dumb for the Dothraki to go charging off into the dark. Scouting, or some kind of illumination of what lay ahead of them, would’ve been smart. On the other hand, anyone worried that the Dothraki would be a problem for Dany, burning, raping and pillaging their way across Westeros, can now breathe a sigh of relief. > > Glad Jorah died defending his beloved Khaleesi. > A nice completion of the circle, but I thought the Children stabbed him in the upper chest and Arya stabbed him in the lower gut. > Yes! That, to me, was the biggest missed opportunity of this episode - showing Tormund having to kill an undead Brienne, or Ser Jorah an undead Lady Lyanna, or Sam an undead Edd, or even Jon an undead direwolf Ghost, would’ve been powerful stuff. > Now _there’s_ a subverted trope for you! > Yes, or at least jab him as he walked by. > Yes, please! Gotta have a CleganeBowl before it all wraps up. When Arya was protesting the brotherhood giving Gendry to her, she told Arya that she saw death in her eyes and she would kill many people. The look was Arya letting her know that the person she saw in the vision was the person she became. I got the idea that only the newly dead can be reanimated. They knew what lied ahead, a huge horde of the undead walking towards them. Attacking hordes of massed infantry is what Dothraki do best. He seemed to get stabbed around the solar plexus both times, though it was hard to see exactly where Arya stabbed him. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/220 "2019-04-29T16:37:50Z")
And the writers could have had the battle make sense and eliminate the Army of the Dead pretty easily. The AoD just marches forward because he White King is not going to know about the Valyrian Steel and dragonglass. Setup your army as follows Sir Brienne, Doth Cav, Fire Trench Unsullied \<- AoD Lady Bear, Doth Cav, Fire Trench The AoD is focused on the Unsullied and your Cavalry hits then from the flanks. Eventually you have the unsullied pulled back and The AoD is enveloped. There are breakouts and those inside the walls deal with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=12)