# Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190 "2019-04-28T20:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/281 "2019-04-29T18:50:20Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > If the Night King is so easily killed by Valyrian Steel, why didn’t they prepare lots of arrows with Valyrian Steel arrowheads? Since NK was casually strolling around most of the time, he could have been easily picked off by archers without any ninja moves. I though Valyrian Steel wasn’t around anymore? The arrows had dragonglass arrowheads, but everyone was pretty much dead by the time the NK strolled up. gah! Ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/282 "2019-04-29T18:52:08Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > There is no more Valyrian steel to make arrows with. The entire world supply is maybe 4 swords and a dagger. Plus as I understand, very few people in this world know how to even work with Valyrian steel. I think Tywin Lannister had to bring in specialists from a distance to rework Ned Stark’s sword into two new ones. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/283 "2019-04-29T18:52:52Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > If the Night King is so easily killed by Valyrian Steel, why didn’t they prepare lots of arrows with Valyrian Steel arrowheads? Since NK was casually strolling around most of the time, he could have been easily picked off by archers without any ninja moves. They don’t have lots of Valyrian steel. They have 4 swords and a knife. The process to make Valyrian steel was lost centuries ago. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/284 "2019-04-29T18:53:19Z")
[quote=“Exapno\_Mapcase, post:273, topic:833190”] That scene took place much earlier in the show. Melisandre told Arya of her destiny and she took off running. The weirwood tree is inside Winterfell. She should have reached it long before the NK. To have her fall from the sky at the last second was more of the contrived plot armor everybody has been talking about. Had she been stalking him?; lying in wait?; floating in a hot-air balloon? /QUOTE] It happened much earlier in screen time, but we don’t really know if it was that long chronologically. Much of that action for the different characters may be happening simultaneously in spite of the way they were portrayed. More practically, they had to space it out so you’re forget about it while Jon’s mad charge and Theon’s stand takes place. I prefer to think about it not as a “nick of time” thing but instead Arya employing the assassin tactics she learned. She stalked him, waited for the opening, waiting for him to focus on Bran. The Red Witch gave her a name. Valar Morgulis. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/285 "2019-04-29T18:57:28Z")
I’ve seen a few people mention Arya “falling from the sky” or dropping out of a window or something. She didn’t. She ran at full sprint past the white walkers and jumped at the Night King. They show us the breeze from her running blowing the hair of one of the white walkers as she ran past them. Then when we see her she’s maybe 5 feet in the air, which is reasonable if she attacked similar to a long jumper. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/286 "2019-04-29T18:58:30Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Also, it appears they were going for the idea that the Night King was special, since he was created by the ritual of the Children while the other WWs were made by him. So Valyrian steel / dragonglass / fire to kill wights, Valyrian steel / dragonglass to kill regular WWs (who seemed immune to fire at Hardhome), and only Valyrian steel for the Night King himself. Where are you getting that last bit? Where did we ever see anything to indicate that the NK is special in that regard? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/287 "2019-04-29T19:03:26Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Where are you getting that last bit? Where did we ever see anything to indicate that the NK is special in that regard? Someone upthread said the producers said it had to be Valyrian steel to kill the Night King; dragonglass wouldn’t do the job. EDIT: Found it: > [@dasmoocher](#): > > I just watched a YouTube clip with the showrunners and they said they’ve had Arya killing the NK worked out 3 years ago. > > The showrunners also said Arya stabbed the NK in the same location where the Children of the Forest stabbed him with dragonglass to create him, using the Valryian steel to uncreate him. I may have misinterpreted, as this is more ambiguous on re-read. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/288 "2019-04-29T19:08:10Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Someone upthread said the producers said it had to be Valyrian steel to kill the Night King; dragonglass wouldn’t do the job. I watched those extras and don’t recall them saying anything definitive, perhaps it was taken out of context. I recall them discussing the importance and symbolism of the dagger throughout the story and the fact that it has a dragonglass handle and a Valyrian steel blade, but not that the NK was somehow impervious to dragonglass. I’d take that with a big grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/289 "2019-04-29T19:12:21Z")
The whole significance of Valyrian steel is weird because it wasn’t made until long after the White Walkers were created, and was made in Essos where the White Walkers weren’t a threat. Unlike special Tolkein weapons, it wasn’t made to kill Walkers, it just happens to do so fortuitously, perhaps due to its connection to dragonfire. Which itself would be weird, because dragonfire itself doesn’t kill White Walkers (or at least the Night King.) Now with the Walkers gone those weapons are just exceptionally sharp light swords. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/290 "2019-04-29T19:12:40Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’ve seen a few people mention Arya “falling from the sky” or dropping out of a window or something. She didn’t. > > She ran at full sprint past the white walkers and jumped at the Night King. They show us the breeze from her running blowing the hair of one of the white walkers as she ran past them. Then when we see her she’s maybe 5 feet in the air, which is reasonable if she attacked similar to a long jumper. She is a trained assassin. Getting the drop on unsuspecting people is something she was taught by the best\*. She learnt from the best. Waited until they were distracted. \*There must have been a class on it, in between the caning and washing of bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/291 "2019-04-29T19:17:14Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > D&D don’t do bittersweet. They do fan service. George does bittersweet. Al Things Must Pass IS fairly bittersweet. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/292 "2019-04-29T19:22:01Z")
I’m wondering how many hookups are going down next episode. Will Arya and Gendry reconnect, or will this be the equivalent of an awkward morning after a one night stand? Will Sansa throw Tyrion a pity fuck? Will Tormund finally get to snog Brienne? If I’m not too badly wounded after that fight, I’m fucking anything that would have me. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/293 "2019-04-29T19:38:47Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > As was pointed out above, there were only five swords that were made of Valyrian Steel, plus Arya’s dagger. Why not meltdown one sword and turn it into lots of arrowheads? This would increase the chances of killing the NK significantly. We saw how effective Theon was with arrows and Theon is a bit of a wimp. > [@Railer13](#): > > None of those who wielded those weapons were going to give them up to be made into arrowheads. If the Queen or King of the North tells you to give up your sword, you give it up. It’s mandatory. It would have been a sensible plan instead of relying on Arya to randomly pop out of nowhere with superhero ninja moves. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/294 "2019-04-29T19:39:40Z")
I have to say I’m simultaneously relieved and disappointed by the elimination of the Night King and his army. He wasn’t as interesting an adversary as Cersei, but he was a much much scarier one. It was difficult to believe that he could be eliminated without tying in more directly to the Game of Thrones. Really, the only effect he had, after seven seasons of build up, was to greatly weaken the forces facing Cersei. In the end, magical forces were pretty much ineffective against the most magical opponent in the show. Melisandre’s fire and dragons did nothing much but cut down the number of wights somewhat. Bran’s supposedly great powers were barely invoked. It all boiled down to one magical dagger. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/295 "2019-04-29T19:42:48Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Why not meltdown one sword and turn it into lots of arrowheads? This would increase the chances of killing the NK significantly. We saw how effective Theon was with arrows and Theon is a bit of a wimp. Lots of reasons. The only person we’re aware of who knows how to work Valyrian steel is in Kingslanding. Swords are reusable, arrows generally are not, at least in the thick of a battle. Most importantly, dragonglass is equally useful and way more plentiful. This whole line of thought is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/296 "2019-04-29T19:43:08Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Why not meltdown one sword and turn it into lots of arrowheads? This would increase the chances of killing the NK significantly. We saw how effective Theon was with arrows and Theon is a bit of a wimp. Because the art of working Valyrian steel has mostly been lost. When Ned Stark’s Ice was remade into two swords, they had to bring in a special smith from Essos. There wasn’t anyone available at Winterfell who could have reworked Valyrian steel. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/297 "2019-04-29T19:45:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The whole significance of Valyrian steel is weird because it wasn’t made until long after the White Walkers were created, and was made in Essos where the White Walkers weren’t a threat. Unlike special Tolkein weapons, it wasn’t made to kill Walkers, it just happens to do so fortuitously, perhaps due to its connection to dragonfire. Which itself would be weird, because dragonfire itself doesn’t kill White Walkers (or at least the Night King.) > > Now with the Walkers gone those weapons are just exceptionally sharp light swords. That’s all they ever were. No one really believed in White Walkers but Valyrian steel was prized. > [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Why not meltdown one sword and turn it into lots of arrowheads? This would increase the chances of killing the NK significantly. We saw how effective Theon was with arrows and Theon is a bit of a wimp. > > If the Queen or King of the North tells you to give up your sword, you give it up. It’s mandatory. > > It would have been a sensible plan instead of relying on Arya to randomly pop out of nowhere with superhero ninja moves. How many do you think are “lots?” The Night King didn’t exactly expose himself. Sure the writers had to contrive a way for them to win but we are talking about the tactics of the characters. The characters didn’t know for sure what would work on the night king. They don’t know where he’s going to be to place those 10 arrowheads. Their tactic was to use the dragon on him. It didn’t work. Everything after that was just winging it. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/298 "2019-04-29T19:55:46Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Why not meltdown one sword and turn it into lots of arrowheads? This would increase the chances of killing the NK significantly. We saw how effective Theon was with arrows and Theon is a bit of a wimp. > > If the Queen or King of the North tells you to give up your sword, you give it up. It’s mandatory. > > It would have been a sensible plan instead of relying on Arya to randomly pop out of nowhere with superhero ninja moves. This would be a much more interesting plot than what happened. The discussion and decision to melt a sword could be a good episode by itself and then there would have been tough decisions on using up those precious arrows during the actual battle. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/299 "2019-04-29T20:00:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Because the art of working Valyrian steel has mostly been lost. When Ned Stark’s Ice was remade into two swords, they had to bring in a special smith from Essos. There wasn’t anyone available at Winterfell who could have reworked Valyrian steel. I didn’t realize this. I am only a casual fan. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/300 "2019-04-29T20:02:39Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve only glanced around, but the rest of the internet seems to be screaming its praises, so we seem to be in the minority here. Though I will point out there are a number of critics who have said it was a disappointing episode (for similar reasons spelled out here), only to get swarmed on social media by fans like wights storming the gates of Winterfell (who I do think wanted to see the badass fantasy and war stuff you referenced). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=16)