# Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190 "2019-04-28T20:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/421 "2019-04-30T11:23:48Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > My re-write, using the same basic script: > > 1. You don’t fight in front of your fixed defenses. That’s stupid stupid stupid, and the whole point of having a castle is that a man on the walls is worth 10 outside (do you hear that, Ramsay?) However, maybe there’s not enough room to fit all the Unsullied inside, and the Dothraki would be completely wasted, so you establish these reasons for fighting outside in the strategy meeting in episode 2. However, you don’t form up with the Dothraki in front, siege engines next, then Unsullied, then the trench. WTF? Dothraki should be in reserve off to the south of the castle out of the path of the dead entirely. Then the trench (always fight behind your fixed defenses, not in front), then the Unsullied, then the siege engines just below the walls. > > 2. Now the dead roll up, swarm the trench in places, the Unsullied mostly hold at least to start. In places their formation gets overwhelmed, and Brienne’s northern infantry in reserve surges into these spots. The trebuchets launch flaming projectile after flaming projectile, not just one volley before being overrun. Archers on the walls fire volley after volley. Dragon strafing runs. The Dothraki charge in on the flanks in wedge formations relieving pressure here and there, but it isn’t enough. Things get worse and worse. Slowly (!) the lines begin to collapse, and the dead reach the walls in a few places. Things are getting desperate. > > 3. Bran wargs into the ravens, but instead of doing nothing he flies down to some of the Dothraki (or maybe some similarly positioned Westerosi cavalry, there are still a bunch of knights from the Vale around) and points them at the line of white walkers at the rear. The cavalry charges, some of the white walkers fall. Large groups of wights collapse, lines steady, tired troops cheer. > > 4. Night king shows up on dragon, destroys the cavalry attacking the white walkers. They do a mass raising of new wights. Remaining troops retreat into castle to man walls in face of seemingly overwhelming threat. Wights do not swarm walls very effectively. Things look grim, but the castle is an effective defense. Night king’s dragon breaches the wall, desperate defense in the courtyard. Defensive troops mostly hold but slowly die to the unending numbers of wights. White walkers occasionally shown raising new wights. At some point here the dead in the crypts can be raised. > > 5. Dragons fight, ending with a couple of them crashing into the wall around the Godswood and breaching it. Wights stream in, Ironborn defend, but are overwhelmed. Night king shows up with white walkers. Ending plays much the same, but with at least one scene establishing that Arya is heading to the Godswood, preferably with some reference to how Bran used to climb his way everywhere so that the final jump at the Night King is a little less out of the blue. > > At no point should we see Jaime, Brienne, and Pod fighting desperately all alone against overwhelming numbers of wights, and then 10 minutes later see them in the same situation but still alive. If their units are wiped out, they’re wiped out with them. We should end with a lot more unnamed soldiers alive, and 2 or 3 more big names snuffed out, preferably at least one of whom everyone thought would live because of unfinished business. The Hound, maybe, or Jaime, or even Sansa or Tyrion. This is the stuff. Nothing too fancy, just solid strategy and common sense. Would’ve been so easy to make it good. Why can’t the showrunners hire just one person like **Gorsnak**? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/422 "2019-04-30T11:30:27Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > I’m missing one Eunoch and a bisexual there. > > (If that’s not a feed line, I don’t know what is.) > > Yara on the Bis, Varys and Greyworm for eunochs. > > Was Missandei, bi? Ellaria Sand. I imagine Theon was there as well for the eunuchs. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/423 "2019-04-30T11:35:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > :smack::smack::smack::smack: > > How many times do we have to say this? He said “You can’t just melt down Valyrian steel _and re-use it._” You absolutely can’t, _and it says so in that episode_. You have to re-forge it again, and very few people, only one in Westeros, can do it. They never say it’s not Valyrian steel anymore, just that it’s nearly impossible to rework. Maybe it has the same White Walker killing properties, but only 3 people can rework it to have a good edge on it. Curious if a blunt dragonglass or Valyrian steel weapon would kill White Walkers, or if you need penetration. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/424 "2019-04-30T11:44:21Z")
I would have fought an 1812 style campaign. Jon orders everybody alive OUT of the path of the Army of the Dead. They using the Dothraki, Dragons and the Unsullied, fight multiple smaller pitched battles against the NK. Depleting his Army. Burning every keep and everyone useful. As they NK approaches Winterfell, Jon, like Marshal Kutuzov at Borodino, gives battle, OUTSIDE Winterfell. It’s an epic clash, and many are dead, and the living retreat, but since the Dragons are pretty efficient at burning, the NK ability to replenish his losses is limited. We see a council of war at Winterfell, like the [Kivshenkos painting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Borodino#/media/File:Kutuzov_fili.jpg). There is a lot of argument about what to do. The majority wish to make a stand at Winterfell. Camera cuts to Jon. Next scene sees the NK and his followers entering an abandoned Winterfell. Right after they enter, a fire starts and the place begins to burn down, catching several wights. We see the remainder of the Army of the living. Ends. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/425 "2019-04-30T11:54:34Z")
My personal preferred version would be that they had cut out all the Night King stuff from the beginning. 1. The whole thing didn’t really matter much in the end. Could’ve been cut, and the rest of the plot kept the same. 2. The white walkers in particular didn’t do a single thing, I think. 3. It gave us many boring scenes with Bran, that all turned out not really to matter. 4. We would’ve been spared the stupid and ridiculous expedition to catch a wight, and the silly save. 5. We wouldn’t have this highly unsatisfactory situation, where a threat has been built up over 6 seasons, and ends up with no big consequences. But failing that, a version like _Gorsnak_s, preferably where more than half of the named characters died, would’ve been acceptable. As it is, this is for me the episode where I finally don’t care about Game of Thrones anymore. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/426 "2019-04-30T12:08:00Z")
Since the Fist of the First Men I’ve always assumed valyrian steel is made by somehow combining iron with dragon glass and somehow heating the material using dragon fire while it’s being forged. I always thought that would be a cool addition to the show’s magic system and I was hoping they would go that direction once they had Gendry, dragon glass and dragons all at Winterfell. Alas, it was not to be. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/427 "2019-04-30T12:33:47Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Because Cersei has ballistas that can take down dragons. I’m sure there is a strategy that can overcome this but strategy does not seem to be our heroes’ strong point. Yeah, it’s called “circle behind the ballistas and light them up with dragon fire” ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/428 "2019-04-30T13:21:51Z")
So I managed to “see” a lot more of the episode on a rewatch in a room with the lights off, and one thing did strike me as completely weird. Sam. Was he kind of lying on top of a pile of dead bodies stabbing from side to side and crying? By far one of the more bizarre moments of a quite bizarre episode. “My new fighting technique is unstoppable”? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/429 "2019-04-30T14:03:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, it’s called “circle behind the ballistas and light them up with dragon fire” 1. That’s tactics, not strategy. 2. Damn straight. Drogon makes a few demonstration passes opposite the Gate of the Gods, staying out of range of the walls and strafing targets of opportunity. Get a little panic going. When everybody is focused on that, Raegal swoops in low over the bay and melts the battlements on that side of the Red Keep. Do this at night to keep any anti-dragon fire to a minimum. Then both dragons can sweep in unopposed to blast the Red Keep into slag. Night attacks against field armies would be very effective as well. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/430 "2019-04-30T14:10:57Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > I’m missing one Eunoch and a bisexual there. > > (If that’s not a feed line, I don’t know what is.) > > Yara on the Bis, Varys and Greyworm for eunochs. > > Was Missandei, bi? Women: Danaerys, Missandei, Olenna, Yara, Ellaria Sand. Yara and Ellaria were lovers, and it was indicated that they both had other lovers of both sexes. Danaerys might have been involved with one of her handmaidens at one point but it wasn’t made explicit. And Missandei wasn’t exactly in a conventional heterosexual relationship with Grey Worm. Eunuchs: Varys, Grey Worm, Theon. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/431 "2019-04-30T14:16:13Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > They never say it’s not Valyrian steel anymore, just that it’s nearly impossible to rework. Maybe it has the same White Walker killing properties, but only 3 people can rework it to have a good edge on it. :smack:Sheesh. Will you guys just go with what the show says and implies about it? The question was originally raised by someone who knew nothing about it with respect to the rather silly idea of making arrowheads out of it. And at this point its properties regarding White Walkers are pretty much irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/432 "2019-04-30T14:16:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Women: > > Danaerys, Missandei, Olenna, Yara, Ellaria Sand. Yara and Ellaria were lovers, and it was indicated that they both had other lovers of both sexes. Danaerys might have been involved with one of her handmaidens at one point but it wasn’t made explicit. And Missandei wasn’t exactly in a conventional heterosexual relationship with Grey Worm. > > Eunuchs: Varys, Grey Worm, Theon. I forgot about Yara and Ellaria being lovers. Indeed, I blocked out all the sandsnake stuff and possibly most of Season 6. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/433 "2019-04-30T14:21:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > :smack:Sheesh. Will you guys just go with what the show says and implies about it? The question was originally raised by someone who knew nothing about it with respect to the rather silly idea of making arrowheads out of it. And at this point its properties regarding White Walkers are pretty much irrelevant. Whatever dude, you made a broader claim than there is evidence for and then implied people were dense for not agreeing with you. That’s not the fault of other people. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/434 "2019-04-30T14:40:34Z")
Next episode they all die of the plague from all the fleas on the rats attracted to the dead bodies. So that “drop the weapon” ninja move was also done by Rey in The Last Jedi. Have we seen it before in GOT? I thought it was a fairly decent episode. I can’t imagine the amount of work that must have gone into it. The re-watch was much better for me because I had more of an idea of what was going on and what to look out for. I had no expectations for major twists or trope breaking like some people here. It was fairly obvious that the NK must die and how. By whom was the only question. So if Jon was not the destined killer of the NK, why was he resurrected? To unite the armies? Yeah, it was too dark and foggy. I re-watched it in the dark and that helped some. The close ups and quick switches between action scenes were sometimes disorientating but at least they didn’t use dizzy/shaky cam (that I saw). I think the pacing was a bit off sometimes and it dragged a bit. As people have said, one too many “they are surely going to die this time” scenes, only for them not to, again. It does seems unrealistic that anyone would have survived, given the number of zombies. Perhaps expecting realism in a world with zombies, dragons, magic etc. is… asking too much? From an eye-candy perspective, some of the visuals were pretty sweet though, such as the lighting of the Dothraki swords, their charge and disappearance. That scene where the dragons go above the fog in the moonlight was cool looking in my opinion. The undead dragon at the end looked badass and straight out of an AD&D game. I am just mad that Gilly, my least favorite character, was not torn apart and devoured by crypt zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/435 "2019-04-30T14:45:40Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I just saw the whole episode, in fact, since it has quite a lot of good scenes. I didn’t say anybody could work it. I said it could definitely be melted and reused in response to someone saying that the show established it couldn’t be melted and reused. That’s because you weren’t following the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/436 "2019-04-30T14:48:02Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Yes, I thought the same when seeing the piles of bodies around the walls of Winterfell. Grave diggers will have work for the decade to come. The dragons are very hungry.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/437 "2019-04-30T14:50:15Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Whatever dude, you made a broader claim than there is evidence for and then implied people were dense for not agreeing with you. That’s not the fault of other people. It’s not about not agreeing with him. It’s not agreeing with the show. You can make the argument that the show reality is stupid but you can’t argue that it isn’t reality. The show sets up that Valyrian steel can’t be reworked except under exceptional circumstances. That’s it. The only way to change that is to become a writer on the show. And travel back in time. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/438 "2019-04-30T14:58:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It’s not about not agreeing with him. It’s not agreeing with the show. You can make the argument that the show reality is stupid but you can’t argue that it isn’t reality. The show sets up that Valyrian steel can’t be reworked except under exceptional circumstances. That’s it. The only way to change that is to become a writer on the show. And travel back in time. He said that if you melt Valyrian steel it’s no longer Valyrian steel. The show did not say that, not remotely. That’s what is being objected to. I am not at all contradicting the show. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/439 "2019-04-30T14:58:19Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Whatever dude, you made a broader claim than there is evidence for and then implied people were dense for not agreeing with you. That’s not the fault of other people. Nitpicking to death irrelevant points isn’t mandatory, you know.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/440 "2019-04-30T15:01:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Nitpicking to death irrelevant points isn’t mandatory, you know.😉 I’m pretty sure that’s in the SDMB terms of service. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=23)